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Hi! I first came to this forum well over a year ago researching a new bed, and was convinced a latex bed was the way to go... Unfortunately, vet expenses for all my critters prevented me from making a purchase back then. I've returned because my lower back is complaining louder than my bank account these days! :)
After doing some more research on here and store websites, I believe for my situation, ordering a bed from SleepEZ is probably the way to go. I initially was thinking of the Natural Organic Latex 10000, queen-size, but after reading through a bunch of posts about stomach sleepers, was wondering if getting the 8500 might be a better option to keep that top layer as thin as possible? But just over 7" of latex just seems kinda skinny to me (I realize this is probably just a mental hang up, esp after reading a bunch on here)... But if I went with the 10000, would 2.8" for the "comfort layer" be too thick and cause me lower back pain?
A little history about myself: I'm a female; height: 5'3"; weight ~140lbs; body type is a "curvy pear" (big derriere, small waist, uh... nothing really significant on top... <cheesy grin>). I've always preferred firmer mattresses in the past. No real health concerns except sometimes my neck and upper back (initially hurt it ~15 yrs ago from one of my many falls off horses) can lock up when under a lot of stress... or spending too many hours hunched over a computer... researching mattresses... (haha jk), and my current, ancient mattress is killing my lower back. Because I had to just deal with Ol' Crappy, I compromised and "taught" myself to sleep on my side, but rather than alleviating me of the lower back pain, all that seemed to accomplish was making my current shopping scenario that much more tricky, as I've read a stomach/side sleeper has to try to satisfy two extremes...
So, I've always heard that "sleeping on your stomach is bad for your back" period, but is that just true if you don't have the correct mattress configuration? My body always seems to want to sleep that way, and I usually end up in some sort of in-between side/stomach sleeping position with my bottom leg straight out and my top leg crossed over it bent, but I try to keep my bottom shoulder forward at least, or else my lower back will start hurting within a matter of minutes... So I suppose part of my question is should I configure my bed for stomach sleeping, or really try to encourage the side sleeping instead?
I apologize for all the rambling! To summarize, I was wondering if any of you had any thoughts on which might be better for my situation: 1) The SleepEZ 10000 with split sides (so I can play a little with the layers), but thinking of initial config top to bottom: Side 1: Med, Firm, Firm Side 2: Soft, Med, X-Firm Was leaning towards the 100% Natural Talalay, but I'm still open to the other options (Dunlop or Blended Talalay) for some or all of the layers (pretty sure I read somewhere you can mix?...)
2) The SleepEZ 8500, again with split sides, but thinking of initial config top to botton: Side 1: Soft (1.5"), Firm (2.8"-3"), Firm (2.8"-3") Side 2: Soft (1.5"), Firm (or Med for testing purposes) (2.8"-3"), X-Firm (2.8"-3") Same thoughts on latex choice as in option #1.
Oh yeah - I'm intending on putting the mattress on a Sultan Laxeby slatted bed base (10 of the slats are adjustable) from Ikea, that would just be plunked onto my current cheapy metal bed frame (really didn't want to spend any $$$ on a new frame at this point... The bank account is squealing as it is!)
Thanks bunches to any and all for your input!!! :) Mary
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My tendency given your descriptions would be to go with the 8500 without a doubt. I would have X firm on the bottom and then whether you would be best with medium or firm on the top would depend on how deep a cradle your sleeping profile needed. Medium would "help" a little more with pressure relief but firm would "help" a little more with alignment. The other advantage of the 8500 is that you can always add a thin layer to it if needed but you cannot "remove" some thickness from the 10000. I am one of those who believes that correct alignment/posture is more important than sleeping position and that "most" of the issues connected with sleeping in different positions can be corrected with appropriate mattress construction and "correct" pillows. Having said this there is one possible "issue" of stomach sleeping that can't normally be "corrected" and this is the need to turn your head and neck to avoid laying with your face in the mattress. The other two positions do not have the same need to turn the head and neck to breathe. This is why a massage table is made so you can lay on it face down to avoid the muscle tension that can come from having to turn your head. This "twisting" can be more or less of an issue for different people and different "variations" of stomach sleeping. The "lower back issues" that are usually connected to stomach sleeping I believe are a result of inappropriate construction and poor alignment rather than being a problem of the position itself. There are other more "esoteric" issues connected with sleeping position such as for example how the different positions can affect dreaming and other "effects" as well (emotional and "internal" differences) but these are outside the scope of this post :). Phoenix This message was modified Jan 16, 2011 by Phoenix
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Thank you so much for your advice, Phoenix! I feel fortunate that I caught ya in the nick of time! ;) Hopefully something can be figured out that will suit all involved so that you can still post to this forum, should you wish to do so, as I feel your sharing of your experience and in-depth discussions have benefited many folks! Much luck to you in your future endeavors! :)
What you advised makes total sense. I, too, was thinking I could always add another thin layer with the 8500 if need be. Thank you for your suggestions re: the firmness of the layers - that helps!
Interesting re: your remark about the effect different sleep positions can have on dreams... One thing I've noticed for myself is that if I have any scary "falling" dreams, I'll be on my back when I wake up suddenly from them... guessing this might be from my equilibrium being affected perhaps? Interesting topic, but like you said, a bit outside the scope/purpose of this forum... :)
Thanks, again, for your input! :) Mary |
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I'm gonna jump in here because I am not sure Phoenix will be able to answer. You say you like a firm mattress; but have you tried any of the all-latex mattresses? I got a pretty firm mattress based on advice (not testing) and was shocked at how firm it was. So my advice is go to a store and lay on some latex mattresses, and see if you like dunlop or talalay better, see how firm you like it, etc. I think all the configs you specified would be way too firm for me, and for you too if you do end up side sleeping. Also, are you sleeping alone? Cause you split the 2 sides differently, wondering if thats for a partner with a different preference or just for your testing. If its just for you, I might try to get as many different kinds of foam as possible to see what really works. For example, you could do 1 side soft/med/firm talalay, and the other soft/med/firm dunlop. They will feel quite different, as dunlop in general feels firmer. When you figure out what you like you can swap out 2 layers for free and probably still be pretty set. I don't know if anyone has tried this approach yet, but I know I started with all dunlop pieces and slowly moved to more talalay. Now I have dunlop on the bottom (firm) and middle (medium) on my side and soft talalay on top. Mixing is fine. |
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Hi Steve!
Thanks for adding your thoughts! Sounds like your mattress woes have been a real pain... Slogged through about half of your and Phoenix's 150+ reply thread this past Saturday... Almost made me give up for another year. haha! J/k. :)
But to answer your questions - yep - splitting the sides is just for testing purposes, and also potentially for having a set-up available for my less-frequent side-sleeping. (I don't think the dog and cats care which side they get... Haha!) I had made the assumption that Phoenix, when he was recommending Med or Firm for the "top layer", was referring to the top 3" layer, not the 1.5" "topper-like" layer. So I was planning on still getting Soft for the 1.5" top layer for my "cradle"/any pressure points. I've never had pressure point pain/discomfort though, like in my shoulders or hips; it's always been I think more alignment issues (pain in my lower back). Guess for this reason, I was more inclined to follow Phoenix's advice and wasn't overly concerned about it being too firm?
Over a year ago when I first researched all of this, I did go lay on some latex mattresses. I tried some of the Ikea latex mattresses, and actually found out the one I liked the best out of their selection was the one with latex over springs! (more about why I think this was in a second...) I believe in other posts to this forum, I found out the latex they use in all their latex mattresses is Dunlop. Last year, I also got samples from Flobeds (Blended and 100% Natural Talalay) and Savvy Rest (100% Natural Talalay), and just recently, from Sleep EZ (all 3 choices: Dunlop, 100% Natural Talalay, and Blended Talalay. BTW - SleepEZ was the most generous in their samples - each piece was at least 6-7" x 8-9" x 2.5-3"! I had fun playing...) :) Last year, I also went and laid on some latex beds from a Savvy Rest dealer. There I tried a Dunlop bed and found again I didn't really care for it. I think what it is, is Dunlop feels kind of "dead" to me, like ya just land and... well that's it, rather than bounces you back some like the Talalay does, or.... like the latex over springs at Ikea did. So, even though I thought I'd like Dunlop before trying any of it since I like a firm bed and seemed like based on what folks were saying that it was more dense, etc, turns out I don't particularly care for how it "acts", if you will.
So, another bed I tried at the Savvy Rest dealer that the guy himself really liked was... something that I can't remember and, like an idiot, didn't write down. But I know it was SUPER soft. And I'm 99% sure it was all 100% Natural Talalay since I know it wasn't Dunlop and I'm pretty sure they don't do Blended Talalay? At any rate, I remember thinking, "Wow - this feels luxurious, but I wonder if it would be firm enough for my stomach sleeping after sleeping on it, not just laying here for 15 minutes or so..."
So, that's kinda where I'm at. Actually, another "flip flop" I'm doing (feel like a fish out of water!) is I had been originally thinking of the 100% Natural Talalay, but after playing some more tonight with my nice big samples from Sleep EZ with my eyes closed, I felt a little more "play" or "spring" or something (kind of like "if you ever take a bubble bath and slowly, gently squish and release a bunch of the bubbles between your open hands" feeling) with the Blended Talalay that I really liked that I didn't quite feel with the 100% Natural. Although to be fair, it was VERY subtle. However, finances are quite tight so perhaps it would do me well to sway myself towards the Blended Talalay! :)
Dang - I can ramble! So, in summary, what I'm leaning towards now is the Select Sleep 8500, from top to bottom: Side 1: Soft (1.5") either Blended or 100% Natural Talalay (if they'd do that), Firm (3") Blended Talalay, X-Firm (3") Blended Talalay Side 2: Soft (1.5") either Blended or 100% Natural Talalay (if they'd do that), Medium (3") Blended Talalay, Firm (3") Blended Talalay
I think Soft over Med over Med would be too soft, so no point in getting 2 Med layers? So that would leave only the questions would the X-Firm be too firm? But then I have the 2nd Firm layer I could play with from side 2... Or would the Soft 1.5" be too soft? But thought for that topper layer, usually you want it pretty soft, and it's not a 3" layer, just a 1.5" layer. But that would be the only one I couldn't test/switch out based on the above config.... Pehaps it'd be worth the $30 to order a Med 1.5" layer just for testing?...
So, did I just cure anyone's insomnia? ;) Seriously though, thanks again for all the advice and thoughts!! Mary |
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Just wanted to share that I also ordered 8500 version from SZ and had issues with it. I am a side sleeper and I always thought that I liked firm mattresses, so initially I ordered XF-F-1.5M, and it turned out too firm for me. I exchanged one of the layers and ended up with F-M-1.5M combination that's been working well so far. I also wanted to switch 1.5M for 1.5S, but Sean from SZ said there is no noticeable difference between them, so I kept things as is. As an experiment I bought 2" soft layer from Costco and that didn't work well. One more recommendation is that adding a thin wool layer (also from Costco) improved the feel of the mattress because SZ cover is not the best one out there. |
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mattressnewbie wrote: Dang - I can ramble! So, in summary, what I'm leaning towards now is the Select Sleep 8500, from top to bottom: Side 1: Soft (1.5") either Blended or 100% Natural Talalay (if they'd do that), Firm (3") Blended Talalay, X-Firm (3") Blended Talalay Side 2: Soft (1.5") either Blended or 100% Natural Talalay (if they'd do that), Medium (3") Blended Talalay, Firm (3") Blended Talalay That sounds like a pretty reasonable place to start. If you really think you might want firmer, maybe you can get 1 of the thinner (1.5") layers soft and the other medium? Are you sure that you can't swap them out? It would be interesting to see if you could feel any difference in 1.5" soft vs 1.5" medium, especially given the claim that shaun at sleepez said that most people can't tell a difference (I find that very surprising but who knows)? Anyway I think you are way ahead of where I was when I ordered. Good luck! Steve |
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Hi Klas! Thank you for sharing your experience and adding some advice!! I had read your thread "Sleep EZ - 8500 experience and help with eliminating sore back issues" as well. Sounded like your soreness was stemming from you being a side sleeper and having pressure point pain? Even though I "trained" myself to start out sleeping on my side, I really do prefer sleeping on my stomach so I think that was why Phoenix was recommending I go pretty firm for my "support" layers... I'm curious though... are you overall happy you went with a latex bed? With SleepEZ? Or if you could do it all over again knowing what you know now, would you do something completely different? Thanks, also, for the advice on the cover! I've read on here that the wool covers/toppers lessen the feel of latex though - have you noticed that at all? I do actually have a Natura "All Natural Washable" fitted cotton/wool mattress pad that I bought last year when initially getting into this and thought I was going to be going the DIY route - someone had posted about a good sale at dreamsoftbedware.com (I think?) and I leaped a little too soon. So I do have that on-hand to try if I want... Speaking of covers... I emailed Sleep EZ asking if there was any way I could swap out the "regular" Select Sleep mattress cover for the organic one without having to purchase the more expensive "The Natural" bed (since I'm leaning toward the Blended Latex, but I liked the sound of the organic cover better), and Kristina replied that they "no longer carry a non-organic cotton and wool cover for their Select Sleep models so that is what would be provided anyway." So that's pretty cool! Think I might go back and see if they have 2 different covers still though, and if so, what the difference is if they're both organic cotton/wool? Maybe one has more wool in it than the other or something? Not sure... I'll tell ya who's mattress cover I REALLY liked was Savvy Rest's! It had like a really soft "brushed" cotton canvas tote-bag type feel to it, with about an inch of wool inside. Really like that feel as opposed to the "satiny/shiny/sheen-y" type feel, if that makes sense. From another post on here, someone had posted pix of their "organic" cover from Sleep EZ and it looked more like the "sheen-y" cotton... But then someone in that same thread said that their "organic" cover from SleepEZ didn't look anything like that, so who knows... I had asked Sleep EZ if they could send out a sample of their cover, but Kristina had said everything was pre-cut before coming to their factory for the covers so they didn't have any extra scraps, which makes sense. I suppose it's all gonna be covered by sheets, etc., anyhow so...
Hi Steve! I'm sorry - I was confusing. When I said, "But that would be the only one I couldn't test/switch out based on the above config," what I meant was I couldn't swap them out to test that same day with what I'd have on-hand if I got both sides of the 1.5" layer in Soft; I'd have to pay and send a layer back to Sleep EZ. In other words, I was being cheap. :) Haha! But you do have a point... It would be interesting to see if I could feel a difference between the 1.5" Soft vs the 1.5" Med... I might just order it that way after all. Then I could report back here and maybe help someone else, not to mention it would give me a few more options to play with all in all.
Sorry for the delay in replying!! Been a bit of a crazy week...
Happy Dreaming, everyone! :) Mary |
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Thank you for sharing your experience and adding some advice!! I had read your thread "Sleep EZ - 8500 experience and help with eliminating sore back issues" as well. Sounded like your soreness was stemming from you being a side sleeper and having pressure point pain? Even though I "trained" myself to start out sleeping on my side, I really do prefer sleeping on my stomach so I think that was why Phoenix was recommending I go pretty firm for my "support" layers... I'm curious though... are you overall happy you went with a latex bed? With SleepEZ? Or if you could do it all over again knowing what you know now, would you do something completely different?
Saw this a bit late, but looks like you already ordered one. I am very happy with my latex bed, although I should've tested the firmness preferences in local stores before I blindly ordered it online, but it worked out ok after I swaped one layer. It appears I am comfortable now with slight side sorness due to lack of tossing, but this might be due to other factors. (see my thread) SleepEZ experience was good too, their customer service is excellent as you probably already know and they shipped the item fast. Looking forward to your thoughts on your new bed! |