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So we all know to avoid pillowtops (because they contain very soft, cheap poly foam that won't last). But, I miss that pillowtop feel! I have a Sleepez 10000 mattress (config below), which is reasonably comfortable and seems to have about the right amount of support. I sleep ok, don't have backaches, but I do wake feeling stiff and a bit sore on my "bony" places. But the main thing is, it isn't cushy like a pillowtop. I've tried all sorts of toppers (memory foam, wool, feather bed, etc) to get that feel, however some of them were less than high quality, so I am not sure if the failure was due to quality or material. My latest attempt was 1" of "soft" latex from Sleepez. But their soft is ~ 23 ILD, which would be quite firm compared to say the supersoft 14 ILD latex you can get. So I am thinking of replacing the soft latex with supersoft latex. Alternatives would be a high quality convoluted foam, or the Dormier wool topper. Does anyone know if any of these would feel pillowtoppish? Or do I need to use cheap poly foam for that feel? Thanks... My current mattress config. I added a 1" talalay latex topper to the standard 10000 mattress (its in the cover with all the other latex), so I have (top to bottom):
Other toppers I've tried
Yes, I know I'm picky Steve |
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Continuation from last post: I am 6 ft male, 170 lbs and as you know weight and sleep patterns matter. I started out toward building an all latex mattress but first stacked up all the 20 ILD pieces I had from foambymail.com, which was 2 x2 inch and 2x 1 inch, for 6 full inches of "only" 20 ILD and laid it on the floor. I figured if I could get to "soft enough" with all latex, 20 ILD was the softest I could find at the time, before discovering SLAB and rocky mountain, where they had 14 ILD at outrageous prices, of course. SLAB 14 is $172, 1 inch, queen, where 20 ILD from FBM is $93. 6 inches of 20 ILD felt like a rock. Hurt shoulders, hips, back, everywhere. A rock. So I decided right there and then that throwing tons of money at Sleepez or XXX for slabs of latex was not going to work. It was after thousands of dollars on mattresses and hundreds of toppers and combinations... and much great advice here... that I determined that mattress surgery was for me... that I needed some flexibility from the springs.. and no more than 4 inches of comfort layer. As an engineer, I was shocked to learn with my 6 inch latex experiment, but also observed by phoenix here... that more inches of even soft latex actually makes the bed harder. More = more suppportive. It is counterintuitive. While I continue to experiment, I have found that for my sensitive and now boney shoulders and hips ... to accommodate side and back sleep.. but also the requirement that when sleeping on my back, I need to (just) compress through the comfort layer to "something" of solid support so my back doesn't attempt to hold up my butt all night because it senses it is "falling into a hole". That is the lower lumbar problem, and the best way I can describe what happens. So the top 1 inch of memory foam (or maybe 14 ILD with some firmness in pad)... is an absolute must for conforming for side sleep. And for me... no more than 3 more inches of "soft". I tried all combinations of 4 inches of latex using up to 4 x 1 inches of 20 ILD and 2x 1 inches of 14 ILD (split them all 30 inches wide for twice as many possibilities/$) All too hard at one point or another. The 1 inch of 4 lb mem foam does compress through the night.. but I found the 5 ILD starts out too firm. I have tried mem foam under a top layer of 14 or 20. 14+ 4 lb too soft and squishy, 20+ 4lb too hard on top, for me. I just "rebought" the 1 inch 5lb "sensus" from O Stock. Wanted to give it another try.. with some new layers I didn't have when I tried it and threw away earlier. Only $72 on top of $6000, so what the heck? Oops. Still don't like it. It isn't that much firmer than the ecogreen 1 inch 4lb from overstock.com (too)...and is really squishy feeling. Apparently some like it. So again, good luck. t |
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I am glad I am reading this post, because I am after the same "pillow top feel" as everyone else here. Although, it appears that we have different preferences in the firmness we also need to take our weight differences into considerations. I am shoked that someone would say that 20 IDL is firm as a rock while I am currently sleeping on 32 IDL and I find it very comfortable. (I am 5'9" & 175 pounds) Back to topic though, I had a thought running through my head a while back that instead of selling my used spring mattress for cheap, rip out the pillow top layer and recycle it, but that defeats the whole purpose of my idea of "100% natural bed". So I decided looking for pillow top feel with natural wool covers and soft toppers. Wool topper from Costco gave me somewhat a softer feel, but it's not enough, so now I am after 1" soft latex topper. I am reading that 1" 14 IDL (or possibly 15 IDL from SLAB) might be what I need, but at the same time some people have conflicting results. Should I bother with it? Also $200 for 15 IDL from SLAB seems a bit too much, can anyone recommend cheaper place? This message was modified Feb 3, 2011 by klas
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I have not seen the 14ILD talatech or 15 Celsion any place but sleeplikeabear. I would think it would be available somewhere else, possibly cheaper, but you would have to do some searching. Some think 14 is too soft, so 19 is another alternative. Steve finds the 23 too firm, so I am not sure if the 19 would be enough of a difference. Anyway, I would tend to stick to 1" of the 14, and if one wants more then I would probably add 1" of 19. Then you can 2 options, with the 19 on top being a bit firmer. Of course, if you have 1" of 14 I would try folding it in half if possible to see what that is like, before adding another inch. They also make the Evercload latex quilting. That should add some plush pillowtop feel as well, but not sure where you can buy it. It would be nice is it came in a fitted top, but I don't think it does. |
| Does anyone have experience with foamonline.com? They seem to have varying firmness as low as 10 IDL. Not sure about their quality, but I am tempted to order samples at $2 a piece. |
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Just an FYI, I called Shawn at SleepEZ and explained my current situation and told him I want a supersoft layer. He said he normally doesn't stock that because it won't last as long as higher density foam, and he doesn't want to run into warranty issues. But he said he would get me a layer if I didn't expect a warranty. The point here is that he is charging me the same price as for the regular soft. That's $147 for 1" cal king, as compared to $232 at SLAB, so thats a pretty big savings. I don't know the source for the Sleepez foam but I've never heard anyone complain about their foam so I think I'm good here. I'm pretty sure he would be happy to order more if anyone else is interested. Otherwise I will report back when I get this (next week sometime)... Steve This message was modified Feb 5, 2011 by st3v3k4hn
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Did you ask him what IDL? Let us know when you get it, I would be curious since it might be cheaper. This message was modified Feb 4, 2011 by klas
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Klas, The old mattress seller "saw" that "everyone is different" is, unfortunately true. What is firm or soft is completely subjective and sleep patterns... and what your mattress pad over the top varies a lot. Even a tighter sheet will make a huge difference. I learned that the hard way. Re: your 1 inch topper, since you are sleeping pretty well on 32 ILD.... weigh what I do, I'll bet you are a back sleeper. Further, I have concluded that the 14 ILD SLAB that I have is probably too soft for me. I have pulled it out numerous times and tried it, top layer, second layer, and found each time that it was too soft, not supportive enough even for me, who must want among the softest top layers to accommodate my boney shoulder/hip in side sleep. I felt 6 inches of 20 was hard. There were some issues, as I thought the 2x2 inch part of that may have been mismarked. At any rate, having been there with all the products, I strongly recommend that you get 20 ILD from www.foambymail.com. It is 'quite soft' as others have said. The last piece I bought from them was perfect... for $93 delivered.. though a previous piece had several small 2x2 inch patches which did not affect the usability of the product one iota. I don't think you will regret this. Slightly more than half, and I am sure you would be unhappy with SLAB. Oh... one important difference: SLAB will accept a return, FBM will not. The first time I tried the 14 ILD (found it too soft then, too)... they accepted my return graciously... with restocking fee/shipping of $32 from Atlanta. So you can experiment with 14 ILD at a high cost. http://www.foambymail.com/LatexTopper.html
klas wrote: I am glad I am reading this post, because I am after the same "pillow top feel" as everyone else here. Although, it appears that we have different preferences in the firmness we also need to take our weight differences into considerations. I am shoked that someone would say that 20 IDL is firm as a rock while I am currently sleeping on 32 IDL and I find it very comfortable. (I am 5'9" & 175 pounds) Back to topic though, I had a thought running through my head a while back that instead of selling my used spring mattress for cheap, rip out the pillow top layer and recycle it, but that defeats the whole purpose of my idea of "100% natural bed". So I decided looking for pillow top feel with natural wool covers and soft toppers. Wool topper from Costco gave me somewhat a softer feel, but it's not enough, so now I am after 1" soft latex topper. I am reading that 1" 14 IDL (or possibly 15 IDL from SLAB) might be what I need, but at the same time some people have conflicting results. Should I bother with it? Also $200 for 15 IDL from SLAB seems a bit too much, can anyone recommend cheaper place? |
| I haven't received the supersoft layer from SleepEZ yet but I talked to Shawn today - he said its 16 ILD, and from Radium. |