Mattress Forum

 Since you don't like any memory foam, I think 14 is the next closest thing that I would use.   I don't think 23ILD is actually soft enough for a comfort layer (for me at least).

The problem with wool, featherbeds, etc. is that they pretty much compress when you lay on them, so they don't really add much in comfort.  Maybe a featherbed does a bit more, but I didn't really like the added fluff and it did not do much for me in reducing pressure points.

I have never tried the cuddlebed.  A thick mattress pad might add a little cushiness as well, but nothing is like foam.

You could also consider 1" of soft HR type foam, but not sure that would have any advantages over soft latex.

Thanks for the answer Sall. A few more questions if you don't mind:

1. You say you have both the super soft latex and the dormier mattress cover. Are you using both together? It sounds like you think the latex adds more pillowtop feel than the dormier?
2. Which 1" supersoft latex do you have? I checked SLAB and they seem to have both Celsion and Talatech supersoft layers. 
3. Have you compared this supersoft latex to the sleepez soft? Does it make a big difference you think?
4. Also, you say you have it on top of 3" soft talalay from sleepez. Would you mind specifying the other layers? I'm curious how your mattress compares to mine.

Thanks again!

I am using them both together.  I think the 14 ILD latex adds more to the pillowtop feel but I had already bought the Dormier mattress cover and it is very nice and adds some softness to the whole thing.  If you already have a pad, or don't want to pay for one, then I would definitely wait.  The Dormier does hold all the layer together and make it all feel plush, although it's hard to separate all the layers and the feel.

I have the Talatech  from SLAB and it does make a difference but I admit to not trying every combination to separate the feel of each layer.

You can tell the difference between the 14 ILD and the 22 from sleepez if you squeeze it between your fingers.  Big difference?  Hmmm.  Hard to say but if I were to do it again, I would probably use two inches of the 22-24 ILD, one 1" of 19, and then top it off with one 1" of 14 ILD, rather than three 1" of 22-24 ILD soft to get a more smooth transition.  This is all not very scientific though and more subjective.  

My mattress is a latex mattress from OMF with a 32 ILD 8" that is too firm for my side sleeping shoulders.  I'm actually trying to use my layers in zones to make it softer for my shoulders (by doubling over the 14 ILD to 2" at the shoulders, and making the lower half of my body sleep on the 22-24 ILD latex to try to keep my spine straight while side sleeping....so I'm not done tweeking my ride.

Hope this helps but there is no guarantee.

I know exactly what you are talking about as that is what I have been after for years now.  The St. Dormier is a skirted mattress pad.. washable wool encased in stretchy 100% cotton, very loose skirt.  Mine just arrived.. it does add some "firmness" but is probably a keeper for me.  Before that I have been sleeping on just a sheet between me and my 1 inch top layer of 4 ILD eco green memory foam from Overstock.

All good recommendations from the others, here.

While I own and have tried the 1 inch of 14 ILD from sleep like a bear (not yet under the dormier but plan to tonight) ... under just a sheet, I found it too soft... and hence not supportive. 

IMHO, the feel we are both looking for comes from just the right degree of softness and the right (thin thickness) .... of polyurethane foam... which is on top of almost every mattress made, from cheap to expensive.  I believe the mattress industry is using poly in half inch thicknesses and softer than what  we can buy because the makers cannot make enough money on a half inch of  it.. when they  sell one inch queens for $40!

Of my current 4 separate 1 inch layers, as follows, two of them are "supersoft high quality poly foam" sold by foamdistributing.com, because it feels better  to me than the more expensive latex.  They just don't make the latex in enough softnesses for my/our desires.  My stack, on a firm set of linked springs (Serta Auburn Firm):

top:  1 inch 4 lb memory foam, next:  1 inch supersoft poly, next 1 inch 20 ILD latex from Foambymail.con, next 1 inch supersoft poly, then a 3/16 inch felt pad which came on top of the mattress.. which stains and marks the foam on top  of it.  I have tried hundreds if not thousands of combinations of inches of latex, memory,  and poly foam and found this to be best... for now.. for me.

I wanted so badly for latex top to bottom to work, because it will be done and last, but it just doesn't work for my side/back sleeper, lower back lumbar problem.

I would try one inch of the super soft poly.. it  will be 82x82 and you will have to cut to queen... easy.  Cost about $40.

And you can fold it to get the effect of two inches.  I have most of mine cut in half so I can do that.. and with a pad or cover over the top when you  find the right combination, you willlhardly know that there is a seam there.

Foam distributing does sell this same material in egg crate, thicker, which I have tried, but I prefer the 1 inch without the  crating.

I wish someone  sold this material in half inch thicknesses...because a half  inch of it over some 19 ILD may be even better!  I haven't called them to ask.. and should.

Good luck.

st3v3k4hn wrote:

I started out toward building an all latex mattress but first stacked up all the 20 ILD pieces I had from foambymail.com, which was 2 x2 inch and 2x 1 inch, for 6 full inches of "only" 20 ILD and laid it on the floor. I figured if I could get to "soft enough" with all latex, 20 ILD was the softest I could find at the time, before discovering SLAB and rocky mountain, where they had 14 ILD at outrageous prices, of course. SLAB 14 is $172, 1 inch, queen, where 20 ILD from FBM is $93.

6 inches of 20 ILD felt like a rock.  Hurt shoulders, hips, back, everywhere.  A rock.  So I decided right there and then that throwing tons of money at Sleepez or XXX for slabs of latex was not going to work.

It was after thousands of dollars on mattresses and hundreds of toppers and combinations... and much great advice here... that I determined that mattress surgery was for me... that I needed some flexibility from the springs.. and no more than 4 inches of comfort layer.

As an engineer, I was shocked to learn with my 6 inch latex experiment, but also observed by phoenix here... that more inches of even soft latex actually makes the bed harder.  More = more suppportive. It is counterintuitive.

While I continue to experiment, I have found that for my sensitive and now boney shoulders and hips ... to accommodate side and back sleep.. but also the requirement that when sleeping on my  back, I need to (just) compress through the comfort layer to "something" of solid support so my back doesn't attempt to hold up my butt all night because it senses it is "falling into a hole".  That is the lower lumbar problem, and the best way I can describe what happens.

So the top 1 inch of memory foam (or maybe 14 ILD with some firmness in pad)... is an  absolute must for conforming for side sleep.  And for me... no more than 3 more inches of "soft".

I tried all combinations of 4 inches of latex using up to 4 x 1 inches of 20 ILD and 2x 1 inches of 14 ILD (split them all 30 inches wide for twice as many possibilities/$) All  too hard at one point or another.  The 1 inch of 4 lb mem foam does compress through the night.. but I found the 5 ILD starts out too firm.  I have tried mem foam under a top layer of 14 or 20.  14+ 4 lb too soft and squishy, 20+ 4lb too hard on top, for me.

I just "rebought" the 1 inch 5lb "sensus" from O Stock.  Wanted to give it another try.. with some new layers I didn't have when I tried it and threw away earlier.  Only $72 on top of $6000, so what the heck?  Oops.  Still don't like it.  It isn't that much firmer  than the ecogreen 1 inch 4lb from overstock.com (too)...and is really squishy feeling.  Apparently some like  it.

So again, good luck.

t

Back to topic though, I had a thought running through my head a while back that instead of selling my used spring mattress for cheap, rip out the pillow top layer and recycle it, but that defeats the whole purpose of my idea of "100% natural bed". So I decided looking for pillow top feel with natural wool covers and soft toppers.

Wool topper from Costco gave me somewhat a softer feel, but it's not enough, so now I am after 1" soft latex topper. I am reading that 1" 14 IDL (or possibly 15 IDL from SLAB) might be what I need, but at the same time some people have conflicting results. Should I bother with it? Also $200 for 15 IDL from SLAB seems a bit too much, can anyone recommend cheaper place?

Some think 14 is too soft, so 19 is another alternative.   Steve finds the 23 too firm, so I am not sure if the 19 would be enough of a difference.  Anyway, I would tend to stick to 1" of the 14, and if one wants more then I would probably add 1" of 19.   Then you can 2 options, with the 19 on top being a bit firmer.   Of course, if you have 1" of 14 I would try folding it in half if possible to see what that is like, before adding another inch.

They also make the Evercload latex quilting.  That should add some plush pillowtop feel as well, but not sure where you can buy it.  It would be nice is it came in a fitted top, but I don't think it does.