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(Note added in March 2012: Gave up on the old mattress & bought a new one. Added to this thread for continuity.) ======================================= (Note added in Jan. 2012: The topper-search saga turned into a mattress-surgery saga. Mattress surgery details are farther down in the thread.) --------------------------------------------------------- I'm looking for opinions on the next way to tweak my toppers. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Here's the current setup: Stats: 50-year-old woman, about 5'6", 120-125 pounds; side and back sleeper, but mostly side. A little joint pain in the hips now and then, but no serious illnesses or injuries to work around (knock on wood). (The 2" 32ILD topper is a new purchase. I read some old forum threads that I'd saved on my PC; waffled between 32ILD and 28ILD; thought about getting an inch of each; but that was more expensive, and I was most worried about getting something that would turn out to be too soft, like my previous attempts, so I went with the 32ILD.) So: With just those 3" of latex, I think my hips & back are OK, but my shoulders still get too crunched and I wake up with some arm numbness. When I add my 1"-thick polyfill fiberbed on top of the latex, my shoulders are good, but my hips sink down a little too far -- because this fiberbed is several years old and has flattened in just the hip area -- so I wake up with some low back pain. (The rest of the fiberbed is still in great shape.) One option: I thought about getting a 1" 20ILD layer from FoamByMail and adding it on top of the 3" of latex I already have. Recent posts seem to imply that FBM's quality has gotten better and more reliable than when I was here on the forums 2 years ago. But: Since I pretty much bottom out on the 24ILD layer, I'm skeptical that a 20ILD layer would help or would balance things out. (If I put the 1" 24ILD layer on the floor, my bony hips & shoulders go right down to the floor. If I fold that topper in half and lie on that, I still go right down to the floor. That makes me wonder about all the posts I see about 19ILD and even 14ILD layers -- I can't quite fathom how those would be useful, so I'm curious about that.) Another option: Get scrap foam and add some just in the hip area, under the part of the fiberbed that has flattened. SLAB sells some scrap latex of various sizes and ILDs. Maybe something like a 28ILD scrap under the hips would work? Another option: A 1" 28ILD layer (or equivalent in 100% natural latex) between the 24 and the 32? I'd like to avoid memory foam for now, because of the off-gassing issue, but won't completely rule it out. Thoughts? Other ideas? Thanks! Edited to add: 1) A thing called "Oodles" that had latex "noodles" in it -- great idea but poor execution. It would have been terrific if it had had at least twice as many baffles in it to prevent the noodles from shifting around within each baffled section. I half-heartedly attempted to hand-sew in more baffles but didn't know what I was doing and the thing is big & awkward, so that didn't work. (I used it on top of the 24ILD topper.) 2) Below the 1" 24ILD topper -- a 2" Dunlop latex topper from Overstock.com, unknown ILD & manufacturer. Wonderful for a while... but then it cratered in the hip area. Did not think latex was supposed to do that, but it did. [Edited to add: this was medium-firm synthetic, or mostly synthetic, Dunlop. Natural stuff would hold up much better, I'm sure.] This message was modified Mar 15, 2012 by Catherine
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Catherine wrote: Back from another round of mattress shopping.
I've come to my senses, at least partially, and ruled out the Sealy I was considering yesterday (a firm Posturepedic with the DSi pocket coils). The coil count seems way too low for the mattress to hold up for any reasonable length of time. Today, someone at a different branch of the furniture store I visited yesterday tried to find specs for me, and it appears that Sealy doesn't publish them even for their retailers (not for the DSi coils anyway). That can't be a good sign. And the in-store marketing materials from Sealy describe their "power-packed" "CoreSupport system" as having a 1" layer of memory foam and a 2" layer of Supersoft Sealyfoam. Um... not my idea of support.
I did like some of the firmer Simmons mattresses, including an extra firm Beautyrest Elite that is similar to this one at us-mattress.com (13 gauge "Smart Response" pocket coils, 726 coils for full size [900 queen]). For an extra firm, this mattress still had a surprising amount of give, and would probably be fine with my toppers. The one at this local store has a sale price of about $1240 (around $1330 with tax). The comparable one at us-mattress.com, with a Presidents Day sale price of $974, is still several hundred bucks more than I'd like to spend right now, on a mattress that might get turned into a guest bed in a year or so if I can ever get my act together and move house.
Also went to another Jamestown Mattress store and tried out the pocket-coil mattress they call "ultra firm" ($739 for a full-size set). It was sort of OK. I think I like the 13-gauge ones (Simmons) better. This store had 5- or 6-inch square blocks of Dunlop from Latex Green, labeled D75, D85, and D95, sitting out for people to see; that was quite useful. I had wondered if the 16-18 ILD Dunlop (D75) would be OK for a top layer for me, and I think now that it would not be; pretty sure my shoulders would get crunched. The D95 stuff (36-38 ILD) is seriously firm. That'd make one heck of a core for anyone wanting a firm latex mattress.
Anyway... no mattress purchase yet. Gonna have to think about how much I'm willing to spend. There's quite a price difference between the Beautyrest Classic lines (regular pocket coils) and Beautyrest Elite lines ("Smart Response" 2-stage pocket coils). I could go with a Classic, like this one, for less dough and still get 13 gauge coils, and maybe that'd be fine for a while. Some days I wake up really sore and think I must make a decision and buy a mattress very soon; other days, it's not so bad and I think I can make do for a while longer with my weird collection of latex foam.
Yeah, the Sealy coil count seems a bit low, especially with the issues you have had with your current mattress. At one point I was tempted to get the top of the line extra-firm Simmons. I liked it, but thought it too firm. The plush one seemed too soft, so I could not get quite comfortable with either. I am not sure what the coil count was. At the time they had 3 tiers, and this was in the top tier. When I tried one in the mid tier, I noticed a material drop off in support. |
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sandman wrote: At one point I was tempted to get the top of the line extra-firm Simmons. ..... When I tried one in the mid tier, I noticed a material drop off in support. I wonder if the drop-off was because of a change in coil count, coil gauge, or both. The past few mornings, I've woken up quite sore, and this morning I'm really a hurtin' puppy -- probably a combo of putting the soft latex back on the top of my stack and getting all twisted around somehow. So I'm thisclose to pulling the trigger on the Simmons BR Classic Tomahawk Firm at us-mattress.com. It's not even in the mid-tier line, but with 617 13-gauge coils for the full size, I'm thinking it's worth taking a chance on. It seems pretty similar to one I tried at the furniture store. And you can't beat the price, at $529 for the set -- nothing local can even come close. And with all the dough I've spent on latex recently, I'm not willing to spend $1K+ for a mid-tier or top-tier mattress. (I might in a couple of years, but not right now -- not unless I absolutely have to.) ----------------- And... I must have hit the Edit button in my previous post to Sandman, when I meant to hit Quote in Sandman's post, because my earlier response to Sandman's post is now gone, and this one is here instead. D'oh!
--------------------- Edited (again) to add: At this point, if the mattress works for me now and lasts 2 years, I'll be happy with it. Fingers crossed....
This message was modified Feb 22, 2012 by Catherine
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Hi Catherine, I love that you have taken the surgery on, but whew what a wrestling match. I'm not about to attempt surgery, but have the issues with hips and shoulders just not being right. I am also obsessed with finding the right mattress, but have a few comments  ;Do not put a solid piece of plywood under your mattress - it won't breathe and can mold. I would try the old foundation, but make certain the slats are spaced and secure. |
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I just ordered the Simmons BR Tomahawk Firm from us-mattress.com. It'll take a few weeks to get here. After I get it, I'll let y'all know if my gamble paid off or if I just added to my list of mistakes. by the way, i've been thinking, even though this probably isn't a flippable mattress, if you are just wanting to put a topper on springs, why not flip it? Then you don't have any of their cheap topper materials between you and the springs. Just a thought... steve |
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st3v3k4hn wrote: good luck with this Catherine. I'll be interested in hearing how this goes. by the way, i've been thinking, even though this probably isn't a flippable mattress, if you are just wanting to put a topper on springs, why not flip it? Then you don't have any of their cheap topper materials between you and the springs. Just a thought... Thanks; I am soooo ready for this mattress to arrive. No word yet on the delivery date, but I knew when I ordered it that it would take a few weeks. The mattress isn't designed to be flippable, but you might have a good idea there. The only question is whether the half-inch of Simmons "EnergyFoam" that's on the bottom of the mattress would interfere with the spring action too much. It's described as "Heavy grade polyurethane foam" with "High ILD for firmness." And "Utilized below the coil unit to help create a supportive, durable foundation for the No-Flip mattress design." No actual specs, though, so who knows? Can't hurt to try flipping the mattress, ifI don't like it right-side up, but I'll try it right-side up first. I hope you find a mattress you like, Steve; keep us posted. |
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Last week I wrote: I am soooo ready for this mattress to arrive. No word yet on the delivery date, but I knew when I ordered it that it would take a few weeks. And the mattress came today! (The Simmons Tomahawk Firm from us-mattress.com.) I got a call last week telling me that the delivery guys would be in my area this Wed. and that I'd get a confirmation call on Tuesday afternoon. Yesterday I got the call confirming delivery and telling me that the guys would be here between 11 am and 3 pm. They came at 2 pm, brought up the new mattress & foundation, were careful when going upstairs and around corners, washed the packaging grime off their hands before handling the unpackaged mattress & foundation, set everything up for me, & took away the old foundation. There is a bit of new-mattress smell -- I'll have to hope the off-gassing goes away soon and/or doesn't kill what brain cells I have left -- but I've got a fan aimed at the bed now, and 2 windows open. I'll report back after I've slept on the new mattress for a few days or so.
This message was modified Mar 7, 2012 by Catherine
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I've had my new mattress -- Simmons BR Classic Tomahawk Firm -- for a week now. I've got 3" of latex toppers over it, and it's still feeling a bit too firm for my shoulders. (Without toppers, there's definitely not enough cushion for my shoulders.) I hope I haven't made (yet another) mistake, but it's only been a week, so the mattress might still be OK after breaking in some more. When I change the sheets, I'll walk around on it, in the shoulder area, to see if I can get that foam softened a bit. A couple factors contributing to the firmness could be: (a) my allergen encasing is tighter on this mattress than on my old one, because this mattress is thicker (11"), so although there is still some give in the fabric, there's not quite as much; and (b) this mattress top has the dreaded tufting buttons (which I knew about when I bought it; they're shown clearly in the photo at us-mattress.com). If I keep this mattress, I might remove those buttons, at least across the top third of the mattress, to see if that allows the foam to be more giving. I would think it would. If I'm on my side and my shoulder lands in one of those tuft-button dents, there can't be much foam to sink into.
If I slept only on my back, the mattress would probably be fine as is. It's that pesky side-sleeping that complicates things. It used to be impossible for me to fall asleep on my back, but I've been trying to train myself to switch, and sometimes I can now fall asleep on my back. I position myself using Esther Gokhale's "stretch-lying" technique, and that helps. (For info about the Gokhale Method, see the website.)
This message was modified Mar 15, 2012 by Catherine
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You sure have tried many iterations. I've seen a few mattresses that have different firmness levels in the same layer. So I was wondering if that may be something you could try to alleviate your problem. Say a higher density foam under your hips, lesser under your shoulders, and softer for your legs and feet. So top 1/3 a middle firmness, middle 1/3 firm, and legs and feet soft. Just my 2 cents..... |
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timby wrote: You sure have tried many iterations. I've seen a few mattresses that have different firmness levels in the same layer. So I was wondering if that may be something you could try to alleviate your problem. Say a higher density foam under your hips, lesser under your shoulders, and softer for your legs and feet. So top 1/3 a middle firmness, middle 1/3 firm, and legs and feet soft. I've already done that kind of zoning -- with the latex toppers on my old mattress, and then after doing mattress surgery on my old mattress, and then while sleeping on just my toppers (some zoned) after ditching my old mattress. It didn't work well enough, which is why I bought a new mattress. |
| This has been such a long saga for you -- is there a happy ending now? |