Mattress Forum

Catherine, the whole zoning thing (which I am now pretty convinced is the answer for me, been sleeping on a crude zoned system for a week or two now, while meanwhile cutting a lot of firewood and other back-aggravating activities, and ZERO back pain, knock on wood ...) seems to me to make a lot more sense for males that females.   My shoulders are much wider than hips (circumference is like 15" more, when I measured for CSD's tool), so with un-zoned system my hips will be much lower, hence kinked spine and back pain.

Seems to me that the same geometry does not apply to women, generally speaking.    Not to get too personal :-) but based on your height/weight it sounds like you have a fairly classic feminine shape.

I honor you for using mirrors.   It's JUST the kind of geeky thing I would do - although I haven't yet.   A simpler way might be a camera on a tripod using the self-timer or perhaps a remote shutter release.

Yeah, I've been wondering about that, especially since I did not need any zoning for the first year on the mattress. My bone structure gives me an hourglass figure, of sorts (but without the Marilyn Monroe-esqe voluptuousness): about 38" for the shoulder circumference, about 28" waist, and about 38" at the hips. The CSD tool gives me results that specify zoning, but that's just someone's set of algorithms, which might or might not apply to this particular body.

I'm a tad long in the torso, and that makes me think more about the conforming aspects of memory foam. I might have to try an inch of it, just to know one way or the other.

Well, thanks. I don't have a tripod, though I might be able to set something up, but I don't have a remote shutter release, either. I suppose I should find out if my camera has a self-timer. It's an old one (in technology time-spans), but I have the manual.

I have spent way too much time on all this, but don't really feel like I have a choice, given what the mattress has been doing to my back the past few months.  And I still don't know whether the PU foam or the coils (or both) are the culprit(s). 

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(If using weight plates and a level isn't geeky, I don't know what is... )

Foundation sounds like it should be okay.   You can try laying right on it to see if it seems to sag at all.  You should try lying on both sides of the mattress to see if they seem different.  Walking or using weights may be too difficult to tell.   If there is a material difference, then you may have a problem beyond just the foam you removed.   You should not have the quilted panel over it for testing, but if it is hanging over the side it should be okay.   How thick is the fiber pad?  You do want to keep something over the coils.  Also, are the coils wired together?   I assume they are not pocketed coils.

Yes, taking the top of does affect the structure integrity a bit.  It probably helps to have a tight and tucked in mattress pad over it.  Most of the mattresses also have foam or some kind of support around the edges, which can help as well.

Keep at it!  You may want to sleep on it a bit before making any more decisions.  Possibly rotating to see what the other side is like as well. 

The coils are wired together. These are Lura-Flex offset coils (link to PDF).

If the problem does involve the coils, then I will have no clue what to do next.

I did not have the quilted panel over the mattress for testing. Just the Novabond fiber pads (& maybe the dacron, I don't remember now).

The sheet of dacron is about half an inch thick; seems fine. The Novabond fiber pad is really thin, maybe 1/8" inch.

I thought I was told (when I bought the bed) that to make this thing "extra firm," there was an extra pad across the hip area, or maybe across the entire bed, but there isn't one that I can see; there's just the Novabond pad and the sheet of dacron. It's possible that I'm remembering wrong... but it's also possible that what I got and what I thought I was getting don't quite match, for whatever reason. Maybe the guy at the store got the specs mixed up, or maybe I got the specs mixed up. No way to know. (I don't think anyone there was dishonest; if there is a mismatch, then one of us just got things mixed up.)

A mattress pad would probably help, though I can't put one on until I either put the quilted panel back over the top or cut the panel off altogether.

There is some foam around the edges, but not a lot. I might need to pick up a cheap mattress pad to keep everything together, and/or attach some straps of some kind to pull the sides closer together.

I just rotated the mattress. We'll see if that makes any difference, along with the extra inch of 14ILD for pressure-point relief.
(Such an exciting New Year's Eve here.... )

Welp, so much for the hope of waking up on New Year's Day feeling refreshed. Waaah.

I woke up in pain at about 5 or 5:30 AM; my shoulders & hips were throbbing (still are, 5 hours later). Finally got up around 6:30 and stripped the bed again. Took out the FBM piece; put back the N3 piece; folded the quilted top panel back over the mattress; put on my thin fiber-pad; then the 24 ILD and 14 ILD latex. Read for a little while (after feeding the cat), and then went back to sleep for a couple hours.

I might have just re-introduced the sinkhole -- can't tell after just a couple of hours. Pretty sure I put back too much soft stuff, though. Might have to change that again.

The company I bought this mattress from is having a half-price sale (ending today). I'm tempted to go in there and just start over. A lot of their beds use PU foam, but they do have one mattress that's just a 6" Dunlop core, with a wool and cotton quilted panel. Probably not a good idea, though, until I figure out what's wrong with this mattress and how to fix it. Otherwise, I'd probably wind up going through this whole thing again, 'cause I'd still have to figure out the right toppers for a comfort layer. If I can ever get that figured out, then it almost won't matter whether they're on a latex core or an innerspring -- unless, of course, I turn out to be one of those people who can't get enough back support from latex, in which case there'd be yet another expensive mistake. (Between the latex I've bought recently and the medium-firm Overstock 2" Dunlop topper that I brought down from the attic to check out, I've almost got enough latex to skip the springs entirely and build my own latex mattress.)

The last 2 or 3 years that I had my old mattress (we're talking 18-year-old mattress), it was really uncomfortable, and I'd wake up with numb arms & hands, and I could feel the coils. I am now wondering how I managed to tolerate that for so long. Maybe there are things I could handle in my mid-40s that I am not quite as willing to tolerate now.

Something else that puzzles me: For a period of at least several months, I was fine with using just my old thin fiber-pad, the 1" of 24 ILD Talatech, and the 2" med.-firm Dunlop topper over my mattress. That same combo now feels too firm. No idea why.

Anyway... Happy New Year, everybody. I hope we all figure out this mattress thing so we can sleep well and spend our precious time & energy on other matters.

My shoulders & hips were throbbing because the mattress was way too firm (that's why I finally got up and changed everything at 6:30 AM). There was no sinkhole -- the reason I did the surgery -- but there was no pressure relief, either, even with 2" of 14 ILD latex as the top layer, over 1" 24 ILD, 1" 27 ILD, and 1" FBM (guessing 28-30 ILD).

When I got up and changed everything, I put a bunch of soft stuff back on the mattress, just to get a few hours of cushioned sleep. I'm pretty sure it was too much soft stuff, though. Not sure what I'm going to try tonight. Wish I had something between 14 and 24 ILD.

Sandman, do you still use that 1" 4lb "mem-cool" memory foam from Overstock, or did you decide that it was too soft and interfered with support? (I know you have the 5.3lb memory foam from FoamOrder.com; can't remember what you thought of the mem-cool stuff.)

It seems that you are now getting the support, and now need to focus on comfort.  Of course there is a trade off between the two.  I am a little surprised because you have a fair amount of foam on top.  Do you think the 14 is really 14?

I bought a 2" piece of memory foam from Costco recently for a spare bed.  It seems like a pretty good value (and returnable), but I am not totally sure of performance because I don't sleep on it. 

I got it directly from the mattress manufacturer. They use it in the top layer of some of their latex mattresses, and call it "super soft Talalay latex 14 ILD." I have no reason to doubt them. It certainly feels ridiculously soft, and it's very fragile. I think it's too soft, and I just bottom out on it.

(Were you thinking that the 14 is actually a lower ILD? I'm pretty sure it's not higher; it's worlds apart from the 24 ILD I have.)

I might call the local foam wholesaler this week and see what they have in the way of memory foam. I know they carry some; just don't know what density and whether I can get just an inch of it.

I think tonight's trial is going to be 1" 14, 1" 24, 1" N3/27 ILD; then the quilted mattress panel; and below that, the 1" FBM (est. 28-30 ILD?), over the dacron & Novabond fiber & springs. The FBM latex is pretty dense, but the N3 and 24 ILD toppers from SLAB are very resilient and do not feel overly firm.

The soreness in my shoulders & hips was much worse last night than the night before; I wonder if some of that came from rotating the mattress. (I'm leaving it in its current rotation spot for now.)