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(Note added in March 2012: Gave up on the old mattress & bought a new one. Added to this thread for continuity.) ======================================= (Note added in Jan. 2012: The topper-search saga turned into a mattress-surgery saga. Mattress surgery details are farther down in the thread.) --------------------------------------------------------- I'm looking for opinions on the next way to tweak my toppers. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Here's the current setup: Stats: 50-year-old woman, about 5'6", 120-125 pounds; side and back sleeper, but mostly side. A little joint pain in the hips now and then, but no serious illnesses or injuries to work around (knock on wood). (The 2" 32ILD topper is a new purchase. I read some old forum threads that I'd saved on my PC; waffled between 32ILD and 28ILD; thought about getting an inch of each; but that was more expensive, and I was most worried about getting something that would turn out to be too soft, like my previous attempts, so I went with the 32ILD.) So: With just those 3" of latex, I think my hips & back are OK, but my shoulders still get too crunched and I wake up with some arm numbness. When I add my 1"-thick polyfill fiberbed on top of the latex, my shoulders are good, but my hips sink down a little too far -- because this fiberbed is several years old and has flattened in just the hip area -- so I wake up with some low back pain. (The rest of the fiberbed is still in great shape.) One option: I thought about getting a 1" 20ILD layer from FoamByMail and adding it on top of the 3" of latex I already have. Recent posts seem to imply that FBM's quality has gotten better and more reliable than when I was here on the forums 2 years ago. But: Since I pretty much bottom out on the 24ILD layer, I'm skeptical that a 20ILD layer would help or would balance things out. (If I put the 1" 24ILD layer on the floor, my bony hips & shoulders go right down to the floor. If I fold that topper in half and lie on that, I still go right down to the floor. That makes me wonder about all the posts I see about 19ILD and even 14ILD layers -- I can't quite fathom how those would be useful, so I'm curious about that.) Another option: Get scrap foam and add some just in the hip area, under the part of the fiberbed that has flattened. SLAB sells some scrap latex of various sizes and ILDs. Maybe something like a 28ILD scrap under the hips would work? Another option: A 1" 28ILD layer (or equivalent in 100% natural latex) between the 24 and the 32? I'd like to avoid memory foam for now, because of the off-gassing issue, but won't completely rule it out. Thoughts? Other ideas? Thanks! Edited to add: 1) A thing called "Oodles" that had latex "noodles" in it -- great idea but poor execution. It would have been terrific if it had had at least twice as many baffles in it to prevent the noodles from shifting around within each baffled section. I half-heartedly attempted to hand-sew in more baffles but didn't know what I was doing and the thing is big & awkward, so that didn't work. (I used it on top of the 24ILD topper.) 2) Below the 1" 24ILD topper -- a 2" Dunlop latex topper from Overstock.com, unknown ILD & manufacturer. Wonderful for a while... but then it cratered in the hip area. Did not think latex was supposed to do that, but it did. [Edited to add: this was medium-firm synthetic, or mostly synthetic, Dunlop. Natural stuff would hold up much better, I'm sure.] This message was modified Mar 15, 2012 by Catherine
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sandman wrote: Are your shoulders not sinking in enough? That might be the problem; I'm not sure. When I'm on my side, the bottom shoulder feels crunched. If I push down on my bottom shoulder to raise myself up, then my spine straightens. I'm wondering if the springs -- even if they're in relatively decent condition overall -- could have started to wear down unevenly, since the mattress was resting on what is essentially a slatted foundation, not a real box spring. Dunno; just a thought. The problem might just be that these offset coils are not the right kind of coils for me, and either pocket coils or old-fashioned Bonnell would be better.
Some of the mattresses make the midsection firmer, so maybe that is what you want in order to get better alignment. The L&P 3-zone "Body Print" pocket-coil system uses 15.5-gauge wire for the top & bottom thirds of the mattress, and 15-gauge wire for the middle third. I don't know if that's enough of a difference to matter, and I don't know if 15-gauge would be too thin a wire to be durable. But it looks like Gardner Mattress uses these springs, and my impression from what I've read here is that Gardner makes good mattresses, so maybe these springs would be OK. (I don't live anywhere near Gardner; just using them as an example.)
No idea if the pocket coils in Simmons or Sealy mattresses are any good. (Never mind the rest of the junk in those; I'm just wondering about the coils themselves.) This message was modified Jan 9, 2012 by Catherine
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15 gauge sounds too thin, but you have to consider the coil count as well (which did not look real high either). Then trend seems to be to make the middle support area stronger, so that must be an issue for other people as well. Hard to say if that section is more worn out. It will wear out faster because of the greater weight on it, but 2.5 years would be pretty quick. If the wires holding the coils together are substandard (too thin or bad metal) or not fastened well, then when they go bad you would lose support from the surrounding coils as well. Do the center of the coils feel softer than the head and feet? Are you sleeping on just the foam? How is that working out?
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sandman wrote: 15 gauge sounds too thin, but you have to consider the coil count as well (which did not look real high either). Then trend seems to be to make the middle support area stronger, so that must be an issue for other people as well. Seems to be a common problem on this forum, anyway. .... If the wires holding the coils together are substandard (too thin or bad metal) or not fastened well, then when they go bad you would lose support from the surrounding coils as well. Do the center of the coils feel softer than the head and feet? I thought they did, but I'm not sure I can trust my perceptions about these coils at this point. I couldn't stand having mattress parts & foam layers filling up my bedroom, so this weekend I finally put the mattress back into its case and shoved it under my bed, just to get it out of my way for now. Are you sleeping on just the foam? How is that working out? I am. It's not the most comfortable -- I have some lower back pain, so if I stick with all foam (latex or otherwise), I might still need some zoning. Hope not, though. I have no time to mess with zoning right now; I have to get back to the projects I was neglecting all the time I was fiddling with that mattress & toppers. (I think I'd try an inch or two of 5lb memory foam before trying the zoning again.) I need to get some plywood to completely cover the foundation, so the slats are out of the equation altogether. Then I'll need to either try another innerspring or get some HR foam to use as a temporary base. (I don't think I want to spend the dough for an all-latex mattress right now... but I reserve the right to change my mind This message was modified Jan 9, 2012 by Catherine
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Still not sure what I'm doing, as far as the next mattress goes, but I have a question: Is there any reason *not* to put a latex mattress on a fairly old wooden bed frame? Those latex mattresses are heavy, especially the Dunlop ones, and if I go this route -- doubtful, but possible -- I'd get Dunlop cores. I'm using my grandparents' old bed frame -- your basic hardwood frame with wooden rails and slats (used to have just 4 slats but I added 4 more). It's a full/double, so no center rail. I don't know how old the frame is, but I'm 50, and my grandparents used it for years, so... just wondering. I think it's well made and holding up well, but it was designed to hold a boxspring & an innerspring mattress (+ people), not heavy slabs of latex (+ people). Maybe an old-fashioned box spring, with real coils, + old-fashioned low-gauge innerspring would be near the equivalent weight of a wooden foundation (no coils) + latex mattress? Thanks. |
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Catherine wrote: Still not sure what I'm doing, as far as the next mattress goes, but I have a question: Is there any reason *not* to put a latex mattress on a fairly old wooden bed frame?
Those latex mattresses are heavy, especially the Dunlop ones, and if I go this route -- doubtful, but possible -- I'd get Dunlop cores. I'm using my grandparents' old bed frame -- your basic hardwood frame with wooden rails and slats (used to have just 4 slats but I added 4 more). It's a full/double, so no center rail. I don't know how old the frame is, but I'm 50, and my grandparents used it for years, so... just wondering. I think it's well made and holding up well, but it was designed to hold a boxspring & an innerspring mattress (+ people), not heavy slabs of latex (+ people). Maybe an old-fashioned box spring, with real coils, + old-fashioned low-gauge innerspring would be near the equivalent weight of a wooden foundation (no coils) + latex mattress? Thanks. |
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sandman wrote: You might be better putting a foundation on it. You can see how many slats a Flobeds foundation has. Plus the slats are attached to the sides of the foundation which will help keep them from dipping down. .... I was thinking of using my current wooden foundation (the one that came with my innerspring) but putting a sheet of plywood over it to add stability and help prevent dipping. Don't know if that would be enough, or if I'd still need to rig up some sort of center rail that could still be unscrewed when the bed frame needs to be taken apart for moving.
Since I've got 5" of medium to medium-firm latex here (1" 24 ILD Talatech, 1" N3/27 ILD, 1" FBM 20 [more like 28-30 ILD], and 2" med.-firm Dunlop), I might be able to add a 3" firm Dunlop base and have a good start there. The 2" Dunlop that I have is the Overstock topper that I had stopped using because I thought it was cratering (assumed it was cheap synthetic stuff). I don't see evidence of cratering in it now, but I've been using it for only a few nights, so at this point, I don't know whether it will crater eventually or whether it was actually the mattress under it that was cratering before. Either way, it's useful right now. This message was modified Jan 11, 2012 by Catherine
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Catherine wrote:
I was thinking of using my current wooden foundation (the one that came with my innerspring) but putting a sheet of plywood over it to add stability and help prevent dipping. Don't know if that would be enough, or if I'd still need to rig up some sort of center rail that could still be unscrewed when the bed frame needs to be taken apart for moving. This message was modified Jan 11, 2012 by megalops
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megalops wrote: If the curent slats are dipping, then you'll need to replace them and add a center brace. If the current slats are straight, I'd add as many additional slats as you can keeping a maximum distance of 2.5" between each one. ...... My Home Depot sells 1x3s (actual size - 3/4" x 2.5") in untreated yellow pine for less than $2 per 8' board. If you add 12 sticks, you looking at less than $25 worth of wood. If you don't have a saw, you can even get them to cut it for you for something like $0.50 a cut. I don't think they're dipping, but I'd have to get under the bed with a flashlight to check, I guess. Thanks for the suggestion. Home Depot is where I got the extra slats a couple years ago; I have a hand saw, but had HD cut the lumber for me (faster & easier). Still have a couple extra slats in the basement. If I go the foam route, I'd prefer a solid base under it, but need to have a sense of whether this old frame could handle the weight. (I know no one can tell me without actually seeing the thing.) It's held up this long, so it could well hold up another 50 years. The dressers have certainly lasted well. |
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envelops wrote:
Either way I'd bet an old solid wood frame is sturdy enough for whatever you stack on it. |
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JasonRatky wrote: Either way I'd bet an old solid wood frame is sturdy enough for whatever you stack on it. Thanks, Jason (and thanks, megalops). I've been saying my foundation is wooden, but I guess it does have some steel in it, too. It's the Leggett & Platt "Semi-Flex limited deflection" unit. Relevant links if anyone's interested (these things come with a lot of mattresses now): L&P Semi-Flex Web page (a little info) L&P Semi-Flex PDF (details about the semi-flex foundation)
I am spending entirely too much time pondering mattress components and options....
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