Mattress Forum

Regarding a latex mattress, flobeds offers a reasonably priced product with a very nice return policy. You could try one of their beds for up to 100 days with minimal risk. I'd also consider using the local company you found to build you an innerspring using quality materials, even if they're not using individual coil springs.

Serta Simmons and Sealy all make a nice mattress.  I like Serta the best because of the coil architecture.  Simmmons, individual springs, there is no support, they will keep sinking, no matter the gauge.  Sealy, never again.  Why? Bonnell coil.

Also to be considered is the foundation.  What happened to the box spring?  Now it's just a cheap structure of stiff wire with no give and nothing more than a waste.  When they made real box springs, the mattress could sink in and it was a system of support.  Not now.

I have a nice Serta mattress resting on a firm foam base with a latex topper.  My solution.

Consumers need to be very savvy with their bedding choices.

Thanks megalops, sensible thinking and I can't argue with it. I have been looking at the FloBeds as well as SavvyRest.  I went back to our local source and notice the springs are coil, not high count, not individually wrapped and discovered via research many tidbits - but the springs are good gauge and good turn  ratio - next weekend we will go see how things 'fit' - they do exchange latex cores and refresh mattresses! I went back to my other source and studied the bed I liked in the showroom - but now it only comes with separate topper rather than all together and is too soft, oy....   

So I am thinking I am a long way from being finito with the nightly battle, yet  am on a good road. 

The first mattress we purchased was a really good SImmons,  which replaced an old one of same brand -  I can still lay on it when I go see my son and wife and the foundation is very different from current one - so they put a good memory there as far as purchasing.    If you're happy with such for twenty years you think you're onto something...  So we figured another Simmons would work - I've put toppers of all kinds on it and like most folks on this forum I'm still gritting my teeth and staying sore. I have a huge problem with the rail around the edge and the springs feel like a box of rocks with horrid motion transfer.

I also wonder about the foundation - we had more than a bit of trouble with our retailer when we purchsed this set several years ago. We purchased a pillow top, the guy wrote it up as plush - it was not a pleasant experience -  we chose a low profile foundation, wood - took two tries after they delivered a standard and messed up ur bed frame and still we are stuck with the metal mess on the bottom.  I can see inside it and it's not great.      I'm older and grumpier, I have a list to take shopping with me now and I do not accept  verbal 'blah blah'.    With latex the slats will be needed, but what a thought to put the foam on the base!! 

No way am I going back to this retailer, despite their popularitity and you are so right about being an informed consumer - who knew getting a good night's sleep would be such an exercise.

Well mostly the problem is that they put too much cheap non-supportive foam on top of them which quickly breaks down and then provides NO support. This is especially true with pillowtops which one should avoid like the plague. Get a firmer mattress then add your own 1-2" of soft latex to soften it up while providing good and long-lasting support.

So the biggest problem with S-Brands is that they use cheap non-supportive, non-lasting foams.

Sometimes they do use very good springs though, which paves the way for doing mattress surgery to replace their cheap foam with good foams.

Personally I have heard nothing but bad things about Serta. They are considered by many within the mattress industry to be the worst of the S-Brands. YMMV.

My own research has led me to believe that a high-end S&F or Simmons is probably your best bet with the S-brands. But if you buy an S-brand just avoid pillowtops, go wtih Firm and add your own toppers to soften it up.

The big issue people find with the "S" Brands is Success. Anytime you are successful people will look at ways to bring you down. All the "S" Brands make low end bedding to High End bedding and anywhere in between. The individually pocketed coils are the best for Motion transfer without going to an all foam bed, but you sacrifice durability for motion transfer.

An all foam mattress does the best for motion transfer reduction. Latex, Memory Foam, or just High Density Poly Foam will all perform equally in that aspect. With Poly Foam of anytype including Memory Foam it does have an odor from manufacturing, but this dissipates over time. The newer the foam is from the manfacturing plant the stronger the smell. Also the higher the density of the foam the longer it takes for the odor to dissipate.

Now the Stearns & Foster and Simmons both use Synthetic Latex and not 100% Natural latex and that is their crossover. They are both very good beds, but I dont want you to be mislead into thinking they are 100% Natural Latex when they are infact Synthetic Latex. Natural Latext will not have the odor like the poly foams or memory foam.

Bottom Line as to what is so wrong with the "S" Brands is Success.

You seemed to be a little confused about what is used in each brand uses as coil systems.

Serta uses the continous coil which in fact is the lightest spring unit in the industry using the least amount of steel. It does have a decent design and holds up fairly well depending on which unit you get. In their starting line they use the Bonnell coil.

Simmons individually pocketed coil system is great for motion transfer as it doesnt distribute your weight across the bed so you do give up some duarbility. You dont give up support, because you are sleeping on more coils in most Breauty Rest then you do on any other mattress. It just doesnt maintian that level of support as long as a Sealy or Serta. Simmons Also uses the Bonnell Coil in their base line mattress's

Sealy Use's an offset coil system in their Posutrepedic line which has been proven by Sealy, Stearns & Foster, and many other manufactures to be the longest lasting coil system in the industry. It does transfer motion more than the individually pocketed coil system, but each coil has 5 turns and each turn is the same diameter at the top as it is in the middle and on the bottom. Sealy like most other manufactures use the Bonnell coil in their base line and not in the posturepedic.

Boxprings versus foundations - A boxspring was design to work with certian innerspring mattress sets and increase the life of a mattress that is usign a Continous coil, Bonnell Coil, or Offset Coil. The boxspring flexed and took some of the stress off the actual coil system increasing the life of the mattress some. It also made the mattress feel a little softer and a little bouncy. So they increased strength in these boxsprings in Sealy and Stearns so they dont flex as much but they still do flex.

Foundtions work best For individually pocketed coils and foam beds. The pocketed coil system actually last longer and provides mroe support on a foundation then it does on a boxspring. These coils are not tied together and do not distribute your weight across the bed. The flexing of a boxspring would tend to pull the pocted coils out of alignment and had caused the mattress to wear out very quickly. This is why Simmons had a very high return rate for several years until they swtiched to a steel foundation and their return rate droped drastically. The all foam doesnt work well on a boxspring becuase the foam will begin to pocket down into the wire grid or coils underneath it.

The Serta on a firm foam base will perform well. You will need to change the base out in 4 to 5 years to be able to maintain the support the mattress systems needs, but it should provide a plush feel and the mattress may even last 15yrs or better if you continue to change out the foam base every few years.

The Bonnell Coil is the most widely used coil system in the world and has been for more than 70 years and that is because every innerspring mattress manufacture uses the Boonell coil system in some of their beds.

Actually Pillow Tops are just fine, but you want to find out what is used in the quilt or if they use a lot of fill in the top of the quilt.  The foam inside the pillow top versus the plush top when looking at the same type and model of mattress is exactly the same. There is no special or different type of foam that goes in a pillow top versus a plush top. It is exactly the same foam. The pillow top version is just the way the quilting is attatched to the bed, it has nothing to do with what is inside.  There are firm pillow tops that will take longer to compress than a plush non pillow top. The truth of the matter is if you like a very soft plush mattress you are going to have body impressions sooner than someone who likes a firmer harder mattress. Dont worry weather it is pillow top or not find the comfort level that is right for you.

As to pillow tops, I submit that there is virtually no S Company using more than just one very thin layer of latex in their pillow tops. You're going to find cheap polyurethane and visco foams (not even the good stuff) in those mattress "pillow tops".

I stand by my statement that pillow tops are to be avoided because they are made from cheap foam and break down very quickly leading to a lack of support and back pain for many people.

One's best bet is to get a firm mattress and add one's own pillowtop by buying 1, 2 or 3" of latex of ILDs of your liking, 14-24ILD, I'd say. If memory foam is to be used, add it oneself because it will break down quicker than latex and you'll want to replace it when it starts hurting your back. Personally I can only tolerate memory foam for a week or two before it starts to hurt my back and I've tried the heavy, good quality stuff, not the cheap junk most S companies put into their toppers.

Dave, do you work for a mattress company or did you? It's fine if you did, but I'm just curious because you seem to have a pro-S Co. bias. To say that the problem with S Co's is that they are successful is simply nonsense. I could give you about a dozen reasons as to their problems, from misleading customers by using different names at each store, to hiding the truth beneath misnomers and not revealing the actual contents of their mattresseses on those "foot of the bed" signs you see in all the stores. Want me to go on?

I don't mean to be impolite but when you say the problem with S Co's is their success you are way off base in my humble opinion and I have spent a lot of time studying and researching mattresses and worked in the mattress industry for a short time - long enough to learn all the b.s. that goes on!

My personal take is that in order to get a mattress without all the chemicals and cheap filler I have to go to the top tier of Stearns and Foster.  The chemicals have darn near killed me as it is.  Why would I do that? Well I for one would really like to try the bed before purchasing, although in all honesty the odds are 50/50 even then.  I'd prefer to not have to drive around for days on end to find a mattress, but I live outside a major metro area and I have health issues - by the time I've gone so far then I'm too darn tired to do the hours of up and down.   What I have nearby is easy access to the S brands, Costco, and some brands you could not pay me to sleep on because they are toxic.     I'd rather buy from the little guy who sells top notch handmade mattresses made out of things that are natural and not chemical based. I'd rather have my bed delivered and set up. I'd rather have my old bed hauled off (no charity does pick up where I live), but that I can work around.  

Now here I am considering building my own mattress... 

Internet is a wonderful thing, but why wouldn't I be terrified of spending thousands of dollars on something I can't feel?   If I drive for an hour and a half we can get to a store that carries OMI, Englander, and so on - they don't carry anything that can't be flipped or gotten into for adjustment and I like that.  They are going to want body parts for payment and I will happily leave them whichever aching joint or burning muscle they would like in exchange for a good nights' sleep.  I don't care who makes it - I don't care if it has a twenty five year warranty - I don't care if it has a pretty cover - and I truly don't care if it's six, seven, or fifteen inches thick. 

I will however care very much if I wke up one night and have a migraine from rubber fumes, the samples have a slight odor that I don't find  unpleasant at all - and I'm not aiming for Dunlop so the smell of Talalay is less noticeable.   I'm not looking forward to having to spend hours in a store filled with chemically treated beds in order to find my natural one, have aspirin will travel.  

I do not want vinyl coated springs, I don't want poly fill or poly foam.    We turned this mattress/hammock we have and that reduced the rocks that were translating - but a hammock is a hammock and not reccomended for any time longer than it takes to drink a mai tai.    Unfortunately it's not wise to start and end every single day of your life with a mai tai in hand.

Thank you all

Agree, and a quick google will bring up hundreds upon hundreds of angry people all complaining about the same thing: Buying an expensive pillowtop and having it turn into a hammock in short order.

If you don't want to spend a fortune on hand-made mattresses or other specialities, I think Jim Socal has the very best solution: Buy a good quality firm mattress, then soften and customize it with toppers.

Thanks for your clarification.  Any information that keeps us better informed is great!

I think back to all the sleep setups I have slept on, and I just found better luck with the serta "perfect sleeper" with the continuous coil.  Without rehashing all my bedding experiences, suffice it to say that I believe consumers are becoming much more in the know about bedding choices, especially with latex and DIY setups.  It has become much easier for informed guys and gals to get into a good night's sleep without having to go to the furniture store and blindly pick something out, or worse, do a sleep number bed or a tempurpedic experiment only to find they have shelled out thousands of dollars on something they can't tolerate, much less even remove from the house!

I'm 50 years old, and I want to be informed, to know what my choices are.  I have switched out both bedrooms from crappy metal frames to quality platform beds (see www.haikudesigns.com). and gone from there with foam, latex, and decent mattresses in various configurations.

Keep the information flowing!

Jim,

Absolutely! Bonnell coil is the most widely used coil system in the industry and not just by the S Brands, but just about every manufacture. The bonnell coil isnt really looked down upon, it is just a less expensive design and works great for inexpensive mattresses. For an adult it really wouldnt hold up and provide good back support for very long, but in guest rooms or anyone under 100lbs it will work just fine.

You may not like pillow tops personally, but in all actuallity there is no difference in the foam in a pillow top versus the foam in a non-pillow top. If you buy the less expensive models the pillow top and none pillow top will have the cheap foams in them, when you get to the upper end they both use the same higher density foams. You would be very hard pressed to find any mattress from the S-Companies or the majority of any other manufacture that have any latex, besides synthetic latex. And they use any where from 5/8" to 3" in pillow tops and non pillow tops. The only difference between the pillow top and non pillow top is the way the quilting is attatched to the mattress and has nothing to do with the material inside. The material inside is based on the level of mattresses.

Your idea of buying a little firmer mattress and adding toppers is a great idea and I recommend that solution quite frequently. It is also true Latex will outlast any Poly Foams including Visco/Memory Foams. (Personally I dont liek the memory foam feel either, but many people do and that is a personal prefrence with comfort)

Yes I have been in the mattress industry for about 15yrs now. Started out in 1yr in transportation then 4ys manufaturing and have been in sales 10yrs all in the mattress industry. I have experaince with many manufatures anywhere from Small local manufatures all the way up to the S-Brands. I am not really for against the S-Brands over others. There are many commpanies that make beds that are just as well built and will last just as long. Englander is another great manufacture that build beds that will compete with any S-Brand made and are typically more cost effective for the same quality level. I say typically, because I have seen compaines take a lower end Englander and jack the price up and compare it to high end Sealy. When they could have still beat the price of a sealy using a more comparable Englander.

::Chuckles:: I agree there is a tremendous amount of marketing and misleading information in this industry, but it isnt just the S-Brands. The manufactures make different color covers and different model names for each store in a specific region and this increases sales for that manufacture. This is so more stores from one area will buy from the same mattress manufacture and can advertise exclusive products and guarantee the best price on identical products. The company I work for does post the specs of each mattress in detial at the foot of each bed and I will provide a copy for my customers so that they can make sure they are comparing apples to apples. Its not just the manufactures that are misleading thier customers it is the retailers that push out most of the misleading information and not so much the manufacture. The manufacture does its share, but the retailers are the biggest pushers of misleading information.

I still say it is becuase of their success that the S-Brands catch all the flack and it is becuase they are more widely known, becuase most every manufacture twist their advertising words to make their product sound so much better and the retailers carrying their products put their own spin on it as well. It isnt just the S-Brands it is an idustry wide issue.

Some of the biggest marketing gemics out there (I know these are being pushed by the S-Brands too)

Cooler Memory Foam, Gel blended memory foam, Coconut oil, Bamboo fabric, and there are many more

Latex - Many compaines are using 1" or less latex and calling it a latex mattress and most likey it is synthetic latex and has no natural latex in the mattress yet they are calling it a latex mattress.

Slow recovery Latex foam (Used in Serta) Contians 0% Latex.

Titanium Coils in Sealy - truth Titanium Steel Alloy contains roughly .0001% Titanium

I tell all of my customers the truth about whats in each mattress so they are not mislead. I do show each one the specs and contents of each mattress and explain the differences. I do explain the differences and show the samples of each coil system. I even show explain marketing gimmicks and used for each component in the mattress. I truly try to educate all of my customers. I left one company after working there a short time, becuase they didnt like the fact I went into so much detail about the products. I was told that was a very bad idea.

Jim I think you response is well written and I dont take it as offensive. I look at it as we are having an educated discussion and I will try to explain my point of view. The same as you are explaining your point of view. Please dont be offended by any of my response's. They are not meant that way. I am not a great writer, but I do my best to explain the things I know and I will also let you know when things are just my opinion as well.

Thank you,

Dave

I agree. I personally am not a big fan on the Serta side, but there is no arguing Serta has made many good products and have many customer who do like them. ::chuckles:: I Dont like the tempurpedic feel at all myself. I know they are a good product and they will last a long time, but not everyone will like that feel. It is really a personal preference in comfrot from those to innerspring. I am a big fan of the Latex mattress as long as it is 100% Natural latex (which is very rare in mattresses now and you need to do deep research for those)

I do like the platform bed idea and as Jim had suggested it is good idea to go a little firmer and add a soft topper if needed. If I were to Latex I would go all latex and wouldnt mix it with poly foams. The mattress set up will only last as long as the Poly foams. Unless the ploy foam is a topper you can change out and keep the latex :)

This is the information age and I am finding many more customers that are well educated when they come into my store. This makes my job a bit easier as I like to expose marketing gimmicks and go right for the facts.

Please dont take offense to anything I write. I am not an excellent writer and nothing is meant to be offensive.

While I believe Sterns & Foster is makes a great product I will let you know it is Manufactured by Sealy and it is Sealy's luxury line. The foam is the same foam used in the upper end sealy posturepedic and many other manufactures upper end beds and is made with the same chemicals as all other poly foams. Their are different recipes of poly foams, but they all us the same chemicals. Cheap fillers are only used in construction grade poly foams and not in mattresses. In mattresses to go cheap they make much lighter density foams (Basically more air and less actual material)

The other thing is the good ole days of non toxic mattress sets is gone. Almost all mattresses including the healthy all natural mattress use toxic chemicals for fire retardantcy laws. Becuase it isnt cost effective to use non toxic solutions. All mattresses have to meet the new fire retardant laws and regulations and currrently the only cost effective way to do that is with toxic chemicals. Now the regualtion board say that only a small amount of the toxic checmicals can be absorb through the skin and inhaled and it isnt enough to be harmful, but it also states that some of the chemicals long term affects are unknown. 

The U.S. Consumer Products Safety Commission  (CPSC) has concluded the level of exposure safe, whereas the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) disagrees. According to the EPA, the percentage of Antimony present in most FRs is 27.5 times higher than the recommended percentage. http://www.epa.gov/iris/subst/0006.htm

Here is a complete list of chemicals used for Fire retardancy: http://www.peopleforcleanbeds.org/material_safety_data_sheets.htm

I actually didnt know all of these chemicals were being used, but the manufature doesnt have to label the chemicals they use even if they are hazardous. They do have to tell, which ones they use, but you must ask for it. The only one I know off the top of my head is Serta uses Boric Acid. This is actually why most people get sick with a new mattress. It isnt the foams inside it is the quilting.

I'm glad you said almost.

Read here: http://www.flobeds.com/burntest.htm

and here: http://www.flobeds.com/PleinAirWool.htm

"FloBeds was the first mattress company to use wool (and no chemicals) to pass the new Federal Fire Resistance standards. We have wool on all six sides of the mattress."

Megalops,

Yes I said almost, becuase I know someone has done it with out chemicals, but I also know they only ones done without checmical treatments were priced well over $5k for queen sets.

If they are using wool then it is chemically treated and most likely with boric acid.. One of the few materials used in mattress that met the new fedearl regulations test was kevlar and it is very expensive.

Many mattresses who claim to be "Organic" say they use wool as the flame barrier. While wool would pass the old cigarette test for mattresses, it will not pass the new open flame test. These mattresses either use chemically treaded wool, another chemical system, or rely on chemically treated cotton batting (Boric Acid and Antimony) to pass the open flame test.

http://www.strobel.com/wool_burns.htm

I do have a sample of their cover, and I do work at a place with a metals lab. I can ask the lab manager if he can test it for me. I have no idea if they can or not, but I'll definitely ask.

Dave, thanks for the civil reply. I thought my original reply was perhaps a bit too harsh but I really do dislike the S brands - I have seen so much pure deception going on with them, I could write a short book about it. I feel your idea that it is because of their success that they are disliked is off the mark but you are entitled to your opinion, of course! And 99% of the time I am very courteous here, but I got a little hot under the collar re your "because of their success" comment, as if there are not thousands of other reasons why people don't like them and why this forum in particular has an anti-S Co bias, or at least used to when I was around here a lot... That said, I would probably buy an S brand such as Simmons or S&F just for their springs, then add my own foams on top. ;-D

So let's agree to disagree on  your statement that the S Co's are disliked "because of their success" - and no doubt others. But I appreciate your not being offended by my response and I will try not to be too antagonistic. It's good to have someone from the mattress industry here, though you have to have a thick skin because we've seen others come and go and some other posters here will no doubt be even less diplomatic than I was. Many here have been ripped off or feel ripped off by the S Co's and have been through one S Co bed after another to try to find a well made one. So you have to understand that's where many of us are coming from. When I first cut open my Sealy years ago I was appalled at the inches and inches of cheap crappy pu foam in it. Since then I have seen many others cut open with the same results: full of cheap crappy foam that too-soon causes back aches in many people.

I understand that in today's world of expensive advertising and rent and salaries and etc that S Co's have to make reasonably priced mattresses and that to keep the price point down they have to put cheap materials in it. But I can't help but feel they are still over-charging for those mattresses and that the mattresses - at any price - are not worth taking home in many cases. I personally tried about 5 middle-priced S Co mattresses before resorting to building my own from foams from a local foam warehouse and from latex from the internet. My advice for anyone who does want an S Co mattress - aside from buying the "firmer" models - is to buy the higher end models, never the cheap ones. (Unless you're just buying it for the springs and plan to do mattress surgery! ;-D In some cases you can get the same springs in lower priced models.)

Anyway, again I apologize if I was harsh in my response to your "because of their success" comment. ;-D    It's fun to "mix it up" a bit as long as no one resorts to name calling etc.!

As to the pillow tops, maybe the main difference is indeed in the quilting, but also you are usually getting MORE foam with the pillow top and since the foam you're getting is mostly cheap PU foam, that is the problem - it will break down quicker and 6" of cheap foam on top of your mattress is worse than 2" of it. Pillow tops, no matter how good they may feel when you first lay on them, will indeed break down and render your mattress useless. That's why I and others here have been recommending for years that people not get pillow tops and put their own latex (and/or good quality visco) on top instead. 

Sounds like you still work as a mattress salesman, no? Do you mind saying who you work for, that is, which company or store? I'm not sure what the Forum rule is on full disclosure. I think all that is required is to say you work in the industry, you don't have to be specific. Budgy also works in the industry and I know many of us are quite appreciative of the posts he contributes here!   - Jim

DaveStro wrote:

Here's a couple more links on wool: http://greenlivingqa.com/content/flame-retardants-mattesses-whi  

"Now, about that link, note that the photos show a single strand of wool burning. A single strand with a lot of air around it. Fire requires air to burn. I learned that building fires in my wood stove. A single match burns fine, but pile up pieces of wood with no air between them and they won't burn. So I'm not surprised that a single strand of wool yarn would burn like a candle wick. But in a mattress it is a layer of wool--complete different conditions."

And this one: http://www.surroundewe.com/WoolvsOther.asp#faq22

Though natural, untreated wool is scratchier than synthetic fabrics, wool is less susceptible to burning. The US Military, through extensive studies, use wool for uniforms and protective gear due to its natural resistant to fire.

"Wool burns with a self-extinguishing flame and produces a soft ash that dissipates and will not lodge in open wounds," says Jeanette M. Cardamone, a chemist at the ARS Eastern Regional Research Center in Wyndmoor, Pennsylvania. “Synthetic materials, on the other hand, form hot, molten beads that can drip into a wound and cause trauma.” (ERRC)

I'm not saying Strobel is incorrect, but I really have a hard time believing that they are correct, and that every mattress company who claims wool with no chemicals as their fire barrier is lying. Especially since a simple lab test could put each and every one of the businesses under, and expose them to massive lawsuits.

megalops, I agree with you and having been researching this for months I totally agree.  I still like the FloBeds, but when I go testing mattresses I can take my list and hopefully get some idea of price comparison for what is inside.  A few on my short list are similar.

This is why I am looking at latex mattresses - - NOT the S brands and this is why I was surprosed when i discovered that S&F had a latex that has cashmere in the cover etc/  I'm apparently more tired than I thought.   Yes I am aware that S&F is owned by Sealy - hard not too if searching on the web, but at least they give you a content list.   

I have nothing against them all - have been happy with Simmons for many years, but the times are changing and I would like to sleep.  I refuse polyfoam, period and have been appalled that manufacturers are allowed to say a latex bed even if ionly an inch. That's what's wrong with the S brands.

I am looking at several manufactureres who do not use boric acid and the wool is the flame barrier. Horray!  OMI, Englander, Natura, Southhard just to name a few.  Some do use boric acid, frankly I would prefer that to the unknown whatever it is and a fabric doused in formaldehyde. So I am going natural - one way or another.

If the weather works out we are going to test Englander, Natura, and OMI this weekend (yes OMI is short for 'Oh my - it's expensive') and I've tried Southard which uses wool.  I do know the difference between latex and plyfoam. The difference between organic cotton and just cotton, the difference between organic wool and just wool - - I won't have synthetic latex either.   I've got a discussion going with the retailer and covered exchange, returns, delivery - so far so good - they carry good products. 

My biggest concern at this point is whether I can stand the latex smell, there is a big difference in a small sample vs a bed.  

Thanks for those links. I've spent the past couple of evenings reading a bunch of stuff about the fire retardants in mattresses but hadn't read either of those pages. I did find a different site that countered some of Strobel's claims but lost track of it.

There is a whole lotta stuff out there on the 'Net, and I'm finding it difficult to find independent science -- that I can understand without a degree in chemistry -- and separate that out from various marketing claims and from the perhaps overly alarmist sites that equate the word "chemical" with "toxin."

I think I am more confused now than I was before. I'm now wondering, for instance:

• Are mass-produced mattresses made before the FR regulation went into effect in 2007 considered safe -- should I buy a friend's 10-year-old barely used guest-bed mattress? -- or are they dangerous because of PBDEs and other FRs that have since been, or are being, phased out?
   
• Are mass-produced mattresses made after 2007 more dangerous because of the newer FRs being used?
   
• If I go with an all-latex mattress and there's a fire, will that latex turn into a giant fireball* if it's not covered with enough wool? (I don't smoke, use a laptop in bed, or use space heaters, but things can happen anyway.)

Meanwhile, I do all this research while sitting at my 20-year-old desk, made of particle board covered with some sort of laminate, wondering how much formeldahyde I've breathed in over the years....

* Short video of small piece of natural latex igniting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbqm_5E6auM

 You suggest that we buy a simmons non pillow top mattress and then add latex toppers . It seems to me that if the underlying structure of the mattresses is collapsable because it is composed of polyeurethane , then won't the mattress soon sag even with the latex toppers ?

You can put lipstick on a pig....

I agree natural is the best way to go. Not all will use boric acid, but they will use one of the other toxic chemicals and there is no way around it currently. Formaldehyde is also used in poly foams as well.

Englander is a great brand as well and get their latex from Sri Lanka. Again it will be either a blended latex or Latex of top of a poly core, but they have been around for a very long time and have a very good reputation. I would have to say Englander is the better of the ones mentioned above from my experiance. Southards is also a blended synthetic latex. I couldnt believe on their innspring mattress prices usign an intro level 460 coil offset innerspring unit on queen sets from $2200 too $4400. I would say they are at the bottom of the list with the ones mentioned above.

100% natural latex really doesnt have much of any smell. The smell will come from the blended latex or the synthetic.
 

Davestro, if in the above statement you're referring to passing the CFR 1633 fire standards, please provide some proof to your statement. I find it very hard to believe that dozens of bedding manufacturers are blatantly lying to their customers in writing about something which can be easily proven by some simple lab tests.

If Strobel really believed the propaganda on its website, it would've already taken legal action against all these companies. There would be very nice civil lawsuits against them for trying to gain a competitive advantage by purposely misrepresenting their products. Business lawyers live for stuff like this, especially when it can be so easily proven, and especially when consumer health is involved.

I do like the fact that Strobel has tried to corner a portion of the market looking for a poison free mattress, but unfortunately they've gone too far by stating: "There are no natural, chemical free, or nontoxic systems that pass the severe open flame test." Their stunt of burning some wool yarn hardly proves the previous statement true. They're just trying to scare people into buying their mattresses.

Not Jim, but the suggestion is not just to not buy a pillowtop. It's to buy a good quality FIRM mattress with a mimimum of foam padding in the top, then add whatever topper you like. To me, this is the most sensible and economical (if economics are a concern) solution. I did just that, and am very happy with the results. Yes, my firm innerspring mattress will eventually sag but I will get much more wear out of it than I would a pillowtop that is nearly guaranteed to sag badly within months, leaving you with an expensive, useless bed that you need to either replace or perform surgery on.

 

In the end I didn't care what brands they carried, how good the reputation was, or pricepoint - and hubby really didn't want a Dunlop core because is tends to smell rubbery.  The retailer carried OMI and Natura - again good brands, but as a consumer I tend to be choosy about the people involved.  For a two hour trip I wanted some answers ahead, they dodged me on all counts other than the standard sales pitch.

So we went with Soaring Heart, local company who made us a lovely mattress, foundation and topper  - - we are sleeping now and getting rest,

So, I don't get to sleep on my right shoulder in any bed out there.  The Stearns and Foster didn't allow it.  It felt pretty plush in the store, but the reality was the construction was cheap batting in the quilt and underneath, likely cheap foams with fancy trademarked names.  The plush feel firmed up noticeably in a few days to a week, then it took on a run-of-the-mill feel.  Good support from springs, mediocre comfort.

I'll skip talking abouty the Serta iComfort because I went a little too soft from the get go and had to ditch that one.

But, after 5 months, this Tempurpedic Cloud is a keeper.  I'd be surprised if the feel changed within the next 10 years.  I had a Tempurpedic Symphony pillow for at least 3 years, and it felt exactly the same as day one.  I've since switched to a TP Comfort pillow.

Yes, I would be concerned about any subtle effects of off-gassing, and yes, the Tempurpedic had a slight odor that lasted not for weeks, but months.  Noticeable when walking into room with closed door.  I don't notice the odor much now and of course hope there's never an affect, but I suppose there's always some affect from anything that smells.

Another time I might try the all natural, no returns route, but still, I'm happy with this Cloud base model because the support is really good and the comfort it exceptional!