Mattress Forum

I spent today visiting furniture stores again.  I think I hit all of them within a 35 mile radius anyway....I stopped at Denver Mattress in Davenport, Iowa today and spoke to someone about what they had.  Unfortunately, the two men who were in the store knew nothing about the ILD...nor who manufactured the latex foam that was in their mattresses.  They did not have any mattresses that were just latex but had a couple that had 2-3 inches of latex over visco foam or something....I laid on a lot of beds today at every store I went to....latex, visco, memory, springs, pillow tops....I have to say I loved the feel on my joints of the memory foam but it's really not an option for me.  I dont like what's in them or anything I've read or heard about them but I laid on them anyway cuz you said I should get a feel for what I liked as far as relieving pressure on my shoulders.  I also liked, believe it or not, the Sealy Posturpedic that is out with a plush pillow top...which is exactly what I bought ten years ago...lol  It was at American TV in Davenport but, I dont want to get another one.  It was great for a few years and then, it just hurt....It looks great and feels great at first but...anyway.....Let's see....American had a few beds that said it had latex but again, nobody could tell me what kind of latex, where it came from or the ILD and, it read, "latex foam" over a bunch of other things....it wasnt that soft on my shoulders. 

THe "Back Store" or whatever it's called was the store I visited at the mall earlier in the week......He was selling mostly tempurpedics but also had a couple of Nature's Rest beds and Comfortaire but he was really pushing the Tempurpedics.  I loved how the "Cloud" felt but, again, not what I'm looking for.   I visited several other furniture stores who didnt have anything with latex...just spring mattresses with poly and/or tempurpedics....seem to be very popular everywhere...

I went to Lifestyles Furniture today too and they had nothing with latex in it, in the store.  Then, lastly, I wanted to go back to Lebeda again to take another look at their latex beds...remember me telling you that had two latex beds that had 4 inches of latex over springs and one solid latex bed?  Well, when I went back today, there was a different salesperson there and when I talked to him about the latex beds he told me a total different story about them than I heard the other day from the lady I spoke to.  He said the solid latex bed, which had about 6" of latex was a Talalay and it had an ILD of 28. 

The Reve model at Lebeda that had the springs under 4 inches of latex felt the best to me, pressure relief-wise and he said the latex was a Talalay and had an ILD of 22.   I loved that feel the best but not sure about a mattress with springs again....I told him that and he said that he was going to call the production room in Denver and talk to the manager and find out if they could make one for me so just for the heck of it, I said ok...but no committment....He said the guy told him if I wanted the solid core latex mattress that was an ILD 28 he could take and put 2 inches of latex on top of that, with a ILD of 22 and sell it to me but, it would only be on one side so it could not be flipped, and, they would not give me a 30 day comfort guarantee since it would be a custom made mattress that they couldnt prob resell.  It would still have the 10 yr warranty.  What do you think of that, Phoenix?  I told him I'd have to think about it and would get back with him.  Do you think 2 inches of ILD 22 latex on top of six inches of a 28 ILD latex mattress would be comfortable?  I mean, would it sag to much?  He said they couldn't do both sides for fire code reasons??   I couldnt tell the spine alinement thing with any of the mattresses....thoughts??

sjeanine

Phoenix

From what you've said ... it's pretty clear that you like some softness on top and a plush rather than firm overall feel. That's step one done.

Did you lay on any of the mattresses at Denver mattress with some latex on top? It would be really helpful if you did and wrote down the model and your impressions.

Again ... don't forget at this stage not to exclude anything that has 3" or more of latex in the top no matter what is under it as it helps to know what works for you ... even if it isn't one you plan on buying or would even consider buying. Even your experience with 2" of latex on top of something would be helpful. You are still playing and collecting information ... not deciding on any mattress from any of these places.

I realized today that the specs I was telling you about came from another place and I didn't notice I had the wrong name. Sorry to add any confusion. It sounds like in the range of 22 is looking pretty close to the comfort layer you will probably need but we're not quite done yet. I didn't see a reve on their website so I'm going to get to the bottom of this and call them to find out exactly what you lay on and what the specs are. I'm guessing the single slab would have been around 28-32 so that comfirms that you probably need softer for pressure relief.

I seriously doubt that I would buy anything from any of the places you've visited but the experience and your feedback from laying on their mattresses is necessary to find out what works for you.

As far as whether adding 2" over 8" is enough, that depends on how it feels for you. We haven't yet quite got to step 3 which is where we figure out the ILD of your core. It would also help to know your general body makeup ... height, weight as this would play a role as well. 8" of latex is fine in many cases although I prefer 3" over a core personally as 2" isn't enough to stop me from feeling a firm core underneath. Many people use 6+2 and are happy with it but we need to figure out the density of the 6" layer. Too soft for your weight distribution and you will "hammock" (maybe that's what you mean by sagging) which means that your hips will sink too far. When I call them I also plan to ask what kind of springs were in the mattress you liked as that will help decide what the core should be.

So if you can let me know about Denver (hopefully you lay on a couple there) and about the weight height and stuff, we'll continue tomorrow. (Added later) I just realized that you've already posted your "stats" so all I need is the Denver info (if you tried them). With your weights ... it's probably even more indication of a little softer on the top than firmer.

Phoenix

PS: their 6" + 2" mattress was what they quoted me on when I talked to them and it's $1399 (queen). If this is the way you decide to go in the end, you would save a few hundred by ordering this same combination from an online outlet like Sleep EZ or Arizona mattress factory (the one you mentioned before). That plus you wouldn't have to pay any sales tax (not sure if you have sales tax where you are).

Who quoted you the $1399 for a 6+2?  I prob wont be going out today or tomorrow as I'm feeling ill.  My son had the flu last weekend and I think it's finally hit me.  But, I did lay on a lot of the beds at Denver Mattress...I cant remember the names now but I think one was called a Snowqueen or something like that.  It felt to firm to me and they had no ILD on any of their latex beds but I'll go back when I'm feeling better and take a pen and paper next time.  ; )  Thanks for hanging in there and helping me with this. 

sjeanine

I talked to several people today that could help in the search.

First of all was these people in Moline http://www.platformbeds.com/index.php3?category=0000000005&cart_id=240690161020610964 who have 3 latex beds (poly in the support layers) listed on their website which are not yet set up in their showroom. They will probably set them up on monday. They will make a great testing ground when they are and may probably give us enough information to get to a final decision.

I also talked to either the owner or manager of the back store that you went to http://www.thebackstoreonline.com/cats/locations.htm. I told him of your experience with being steered to the Tempurpedics and he knew who you had probably talked to. Told him that this attitude from a salesperson wasn't "helpful". They also do have some latex mattresses (not the OMI they have listed) ... some Natures Rest models from last year and have just received some newer Natures Rest models that they haven't set up yet. The newer ones from my research are probably not Latex but the older ones probably have some latex mixed with polyfoam in the comfort layers. While they could have been helpful when you started, we are past the point where they would be helpful now. He said they sell so many Tempurpedics that "misdirection" can sometimes happen. I suspect he may have a "little talk" with the salesperson.

Finally I had a long conversation with Lebeda. Now what I am going to say I suspected from your reports but she confirmed. Our conversation was very helpful to confirm that while she may not be "filled with information" about the specs on their beds (she gave me some but gave me a number of a person who was involved in making them to call if I wanted to on Monday), it was also clear that she and the company in general really did want to find a suitable mattress for their customers even if their choices in Latex were a little limited.

I really don't mean to be harsh here but it is really important to take this one step at a time and to follow each step. You REALLY need to follow step 2 and 3 more closely so we can get to a point of finding out what is suitable for you. You did not spend enough time on each bed at Lebeda and were "rushing" way too much and asking about things like price and construction that are part of the last 2 steps and will confuse more than help at this stage. All that matters in step 2 is laying down on around 3" of latex over anything in different mattresses and taking notes about how they felt in terms of pressure relief. Nothing else.

You need to spend at least 15 minutes on each mattress you are considering for step 2 and 3 to get an accurate idea of which type of construction (not which mattress) is suitable for you.

For now, the next step is to spend ENOUGH time on 4 specific mattresses. These are the 3 Dormia at platformbeds and the Smowmass at Denver again (if this is close enough otherwise just the 3). Before you start with this phone platform beds to make sure they have set up their 3 Dormia latex mattresses on the floor. On EACH of these you need to lay on them FOR AT LEAST 15 MINUTES TOTAL. Lay in all of your normal sleeping positions for at least 5 minutes or preferably longer (yes I know that feels like a long time in a store) quietly and relaxed as if you were going to sleep. Try to sense if you feel any pressure points in any of your positions. Bounce lightly with your hips and shoulders to see if you can feel a "harder" layer underneath. Try to get a sense of each part of your body but especially hips and shoulder. Also make sure that you use a store pillow (ask the store for one) when you are testing this or bring your own with you. WRITE DOWN what you felt on each mattress before you go to the next one and do the same. When you have done this with all 4 step 2 will be done.

With step 3 you need to lay on EACH of these 4 AGAIN for another 15 minutes each to test for spinal alignment (You can make the Snowmass the last one in step 2 so you can make it the first one in this step to save you some travelling time). It would be preferable here to take someone with you that could accurately check for you (especially someone like your SO who will be motivated to give you accurate information) but if you can't then get the salesperson to check for you. Your other half should actually be doing all this as well unless they can sleep on anything and promise to never complain ever about your selection. Make it clear if you feel any sales pressure that if they don't give you good and accurate information that there is no chance they will make a sale as you are doing research for a few more days and not buying anything today. You are testing here to see if your spine is straight in all your normal sleeping positions in each of the mattresses (one at a time). On your side and back have someone slide their hand under your waist or the small of your back to make sure there is no gap there (it should be a little difficult to slide under you). On your side you want your spine to be straight and on your back you want your spine to have the same curve as when you are standing with good posture. Do the best you can (with help) here. Write down your results with each mattress in step 3 as well.

When you have done these 2 steps with these 4 mattresses then post here with your specific results with the name of each mattress. If you take your time and limit what you do to this alone ... then we can go on to the last 2 steps which is about where, what, and how to buy, the overall construction of what you buy, and which of your many options (local and do it yourself) has the best value and fits in your budget.

Phoenix

Phoenix,

The Platform Beds place you mentioned above is the same as "Lifestyles Furniture", which I visited.  Their showroom was very crowded and the lady I spoke with said they didnt have any latex beds. She said they had some that could be ordered but didnt have any room to put them anywhere right now.   I told her I only was interested in latex so then I left....huh.  I will go back again on Monday... I'm going to take my SO and head to Denver Mattress again today so we may hit Lifestyles again just to double check on the latex bed situation. Did you want me to go back to Lebeda to lay on their beds again?  I dont remember even asking about prices at lebeda cuz they had all the prices clearly shown for each bed but I did only lay on them each for about 5 minutes....When I said that I liked the all-latex bed but felt some shoulder pressure, then the guy there left and was on the phone a bit and came back to tell me they could add some softer latex to the top for no extra charge.  I told him I'd think about it and get back with them.  I have no problem with laying longer on the beds...sorry.

Phoenix

Wow....It's been a loooong day today!  Lol and I'm tired of looking at mattresses!  I hate car shopping cuz of all the sales pitches and that's how I'm feeling today...especially after looking last week!  lol  I took my dh with me today and he started out sort of non-chalant...sort of dont really care attitude and told me he could sleep on a rock so just take my time and try and figure out what works for me.  Ok, so....the very first store we stopped at was Denver Mattress....I found out we had one right in Moline, IL...thanks to dh....he knew, I didnt.  Anyways, I laid on the Snowqueen/mass but within 5 minutes my right shoulder was hurting pretty bad so switched over to my back, also hurting, so I got off and walked around a bit....My husband did tell me that my spine looked aligned on it.  The salesman, Jed, also the manager, said he did not know the ILD but wanted to show us another bed with latex in it....a Snowmass Plush.  So, we went over to the next latex bed and I laid down that one...I laid on my left side, which wasnt hurting, laid there for 5 minutes with no pressure pain then rolled over to my back.  After 5 minutes my lower back actually started hurting and Jed heard me tell my husband that so he said he wanted me to stay there for a few more minutes to see if he could stop my back from hurting.  I said ok and he pulled out a remote control thing that started raising the head and foot of the bed...which did relieve the pressure on my back.  He told me that I really needed to just buy that bed with this ergonomic bed frame and learn to sleep on my back, which he said would be better for me anyway and get over sleeping on my sides...which he said was actually worse for me.  Now, suddenly my husband who had no interest in a bed whatsoever was all about buying this bed when he saw that!!  LOL!!  I told him that we were just looking and not interesed in buying right now and this guy started throwing all kinds of things our way to try and make a sell!!  Unbelieveable!!  To make a long story short, had to leave there with dh pouting about it but I reminded him why he was there in the first place....to HELP me find a bed that I could live with and he was fine again.  We were in that store a looooong time!!

Ok, now glad to be out of there cuz both beds were really pretty hard and uncomfortable to me in a short amount of time...we headed to Lifestyles/Platform Beds....The store manager, Megan, who helped us, said they had NO latex mattresses in the store at all and that there were none on order or any that could be ordered.  She said they pretty much carried Tempurpedics and Dormia's...which she said were a "knock off" of Tempurpedics.  She said she wasnt sure what was in them, just some sort of memory foam.  Anyway, I told her we were just wanting to lay on some beds awhile to see what would be comfortable and that we might be there awhile so she left us and went to help others....leaving me to be able to try out the beds with no pressure like the Denver guy gave us!  First, the Dormia Classic...the alignment looked ok but I did feel a bit like I was sinking. No pain, even after 15 minutes...5 on ea shoulder and my back.  We moved on to the Dormia Ultra.....I felt a little more support on this one with no pressure point pain...lower back was fine and alignment was great, according to dh.   I did not see another Dormia so just for the heck of it I tried out a Tempurpedic...felt great at first but after about ten minutes of being on it I felt I was sinking in to much and I was ready to go. 

Lastly, we went to lunch and then off to the Lebeda store....I know it wasnt on my agenda originally but my dh was wanting to see what I looked at last week so we went again...for my third time!  Lol!  I'm glad I did cuz the guy who helped us, Ray, I think...showed me a couple more beds that I didnt realize had latex in them when I was there before.  I even asked if I had seen everything with latex but somehow there must've been a misunderstanding....Anyway, this time, I kept asking if there were any more beds with any latex so he kept showing me them.  The models the store had were:  Reve, Opulence, Latex by Nature and the Bastogne. 

The Latex by Nature was the 28 ILD and my dh said my spine looked lined up....I felt just a little pressure pain in my rt shoulder after 5 minutes. 

Then, the Opulence, which felt wonderful with no pressure pain at all and my dh said spine looked aligned good.  (It was over $3100 so he wasnt so happy that I liked it.) lol   The salesman wasnt sure of the ILD but thought it was around 26 or 28.... He said it prob just felt better cuz it had springs inside the top 4 inches that were on top of box springs....I reached down and could feel the springs about 2" below the inside of the latex...huh.  It really did feel comfortable but not sure why....I thought springs would make it harder and hurt easier.    

Then I tried out the Reve....ILD was 22 and it was a spring mattress with 4 inches of latex on top.  My dh said my alignment was a little off and I started actually feeling a little sore in my shoulders after about ten minutes...maybe cuz they were getting sore from all the trying out of beds...or the springs below the 4 inches!?  lol   

Lastly, I tried out the Barogne, which they had displayed in a queen as well as a king.  I really liked the comfort of this bed the best I think...this one and the Opulence...no pressure pain or back pain...He wasnt sure of the ILD and my dh said alinement was fine.  We were in here a long time as well and now I'm pooped out and glad to be home but not looking forward to another painful night in my own bed.  : (

Anyway, that's our shopping experience with mattresses again today. 

There was a message from the L&W guy but he didnt leave me a price quote...just said to call him back on Monday. 

What are your thoughts?

What the salesman said about "learning to lie on your back" and "needing an adjustable" is absolute hogwash. They are really nice (I have one myself) but they are not a "necessity" in any way. So were any "fake offers" if you buy now. Believe me you can do better than anything they could possibly offer you.

The whole purpose of this excercise was to try to get to a place where there was a reasonable assurance that you liked latex in the first place and second that we could know the makeup of a bed that was suitable for you ... or at least close enough that a layer exchange could fix any problems with a do it yourself. That's why it didn't matter how expensive any beds were that you lay on because it was unlikely that any of them would have been your best value anyway. If in doing your research you did find one that was perfect AND was better value than anything you could do otherwise, then that would have been a bonus but my sense was that outside of Lebeda, your odds of finding anything that you should end up buying was unlikely ... and depending on their prices it may even be unlikely there as well. It was the research that was important.

I'll take a look at what you told me and post more later.

Phoenix

PS: I can see why you liked the opulance as it has microcoils in it over the innerspring.  I tried a mattress very similar to this one from a local manufacturer here and it was one of my favorites in terms of how it felt ... except it was less than half the cost. There are several places in my list that sell these at better prices but for now I'm more interested in the fact you liked it than I am thinking it's something you should buy :)

I didn't know that they had a "Snowmass plush" and was going to ask you if you had layed on the Aspen as I had asked in my last post but on a whim I called them and confirmed what I thought had happened. I talked to someone there that remembered you and your other half coming in and they confirmed that the other mattress you lay on there was the Aspen and that they don't have a "Snowmass plush" lol. The (rough) specs for both of these are on their website and the Aspen is a much softer mattress on top. I would have preferred it as well and I'm glad you did lay on it as that helps to confirm the direction for your "perfect mattress".

What the "store manager" told you about the Dormia is also not correct and she may not even know that there are some waiting to be set up. The person I talked to there was a guy. It is usually better to do this stuff on the phone rather than in person so you don't get tired and frustrated with the travel and not finding what you needed to find. It also helps to "come in new" when you visit places rather than come back too many times in some cases. Some places will just "turn off" if you come back too often and others like Lebeda will continue to help you but may get a bit frustrated when it seems that the likelihood of making a sale is low or that they're not making progress. It is always better to first use the phone before you go somewhere ... even if they are very close by. A phone call would have confirmed that there was no real reason to go to a couple of places you went to today and saved you a "loooooong time" lol. I'm glad you went back to Lebeda though, your experience there and at Denver was really helpful.

Phoenix

What is the size of mattress you would prefer.

What is the mid point of your budget (the amount you would like to stay under but that you would consider going over if you found something that was "special" at a great price?

Phoenix

Phoenix,

We're looking for a Queen size...We have a full right now and our room is to small for a King but a Queen would be a great upgrade.  We're hoping to find something around $1200-1500...under would be great...over would not be so great but, if it's a really great mattress we'd prob go over a little...thanks for your help!  ; )

Phoenix

We're just both evenly proportioned I guess....

Here's what I'm thinking from your experiences.

You really liked the Opulance and the Bastogne which are both microcoils in a pillowtop. Microcoils are made to be very soft and conforming (unlike the "support springs in a mattress) and would feel in their own way similar to softer latex where you have a feeling of "supportive softness" in the top layers. They would both give you a sense that the mattress was conforming to your shape and being supportive at the same time.

You also liked the Reve better than others and it is softer than others you tried but the top softer part is probably too thick which is why you were "out of alignment".

You also liked the Aspen better than the Snowmass which again confirms that a softer talalay which conforms to you and relieves pressure is what we're after. Some of your other feedback confirms this as well. You were also mentioning that you felt good on the Aspen but then  your back started to hurt. This tells me that the combination of 2" of softer talalay over 1" super soft poly over another 4" of medium talalay lets you sink in too far. It was good for side pressure relief but not so good on your back. You were probably hyperextending your lower back as your lower body would sink in too far in this position.

Your experience with the Dormia and Tempurpedic says once again that you need pressure relief but that sinking in too far (a tendency of memory foams and particular the less expensive ones with less dense foam like the Dormia) is not good for you. You need reasonable support for your weight under your comfort layer but not so firm that it causes pressure issues if you go through the top layer a bit.

Because you are not at the place where you know exactly the specific ILD's that you would need in a mattress ... I believe that your best option is to make your own with a layered approach rather than a custom built manufactured approach which would not let you change it afterwards at a reasonable cost if any shipping was involved. So here are your options as I see them.

1. PHONE L & W and ask them if they could make you a mattress with a 32 ILD 6 " core with 2" of 22 ILD latex above that with a quilted cotton cover with some wool in it and ask them what it would cost. Then ask them if they could do the same thing wih 3" of latex above the core and get the price for that as well. Make it clear that you are close to a final decision and you are looking at your final options. Then ask them if you are able to do any kind of a comfort exchange and if so what would it cost you.

2. PHONE Lebeda and ask them the same things as you did with L & W. (both 2" and 3" over a 6" core).

At this point it doesn't matter if they can make it EXACTLY like this ... we are more interested in their price for the type of construction you are looking at so if they could do something very similar, get the price for that.

You have several options for either an 8" or 9" layered latex mattress and they would all be in the range of what you would need. The cost in a queen would be from around $1000 to around $1600 at the high end and the high end would only be because you chose all natural Talalay which adds a bit to the cost. There are even some options that we could go a fair bit less than this if we need to.

Of course you also need a foundation (not a boxspring) to put your mattress on then that would add a bit to the overall cost as well. You have several options here as well including buying an inexpensive one from wherever you buy your mattress from. If your SO really did like the adjustable bed then this would be a lot more than a foundation and would put you over your budget.... but he may decide he likes the idea anyway (laughing).

In any case, let me know if you have a foundation (the floor would be OK for the short term but not long term as your mattress would have trouble breathing), and also let me know the result of your two phone calls to L&W and Lebeda.

Then we look at online options and choose whatever is best for you.

We are almost there :)

Phoenix

Hi I just got home and wanted to let you know what I've found out so far, since I will be having to leave again shortly and wont be able to report anything until later this evening or tomorrow.  I am still waiting to hear back from John, from L&W Mattress but, I have heard back from Lebeda and I want to say this, I would not buy a mattress from the Moline Lebeda store now unless Barb, the manager, is no longer there!  This woman sounded like a demon when I called today about the mattress costs!  She was so mean and nasty sounding and she acted mad that you had called there in my behalf.  She said you had and I said, "yes, that is fine; he is helping me."  She did not like that at all!!!  Her voice was very nasty and as I was asking her about a price quote, she told me that it was going to be very expensive and probably not what I'd want, how it wouldnt prob meet firecodes, etc....

I suddenly realized, as I was reading (to myself) your reply above, which I had printed out and taken with me, that the specs were almost exactly what the salesman there, Ray, had checked on for me last week.  He was very knowledgeable and nice and made a quick phone call and told me that they could make a mattress like the one they had on the floor, with 6 inches of a core latex, 33 ILD and put a 2 in 22 ILD latex on top for no additional charge of what their 100% 6" latex bed was...I think it was $1500.  But, he'd said it would not include the 30 day return or exchange...only the normal warranty and only on one side.  So.....when I suddenly remembered I'd already had this quote given to me, and this woman was being very rude and nasty anyway, I just said, "You know what? I just realized I was already quoted a price from Ray on this set last week."  She got even madder and said, "Well, I'm the manager, not Ray and you didnt go thru me!"  I ask you, Phoenix, why would that matter???  So, I went on and repeated what I wanted because she just went off on a rampage and kept repeating herself about being the manager and me needing to go thru her... This woman just kept butting in and interrupting me while I was trying to tell her what I wanted and just kept saying, "it's going to be really expensive, probably wont meet the fire code and you should've talked to me cuz I'm the manager and what Ray told you didnt matter since it didnt go thru me!!" 

She practically hung the phone up on me and I didnt even get out that I wanted a quilted cotton cover with some wool in it..but, I do remember telling Ray that last week.  Barb called me back after a bit and quoted me a price that was higher than the original price that they told Ray it would be....Ray said they told him there'd be no extra charge for doing all that....now it's about two hundred dollars higher...coming from her.  I told her thank you and that I'd get back with her and she just slammed the phone down on me.  Then I tried to call L & W back since they'd tried and left a msg while I was talking to her.  Unfortunately, I was driving at the time and I asked my son to call back the last number that I missed and he somehow recalled Lebeda....OMG!!  This woman about went thru the phone when I asked for John at L & W!  She said angrily, "This is LEBEDA!!!!"  Lol....and I just said, "Oh, sorry, I called the wrong number" and hung up before she could say another word!  Wow!  I sure will be glad when we get all done with this.  What a learning experience! 

When I did call John back at L & W, he was soooo nice and told me he'd get back with me and that he could make me whatever I wanted and he could do it two sided so that I could flip it if I wanted.  He said he always makes his mattresses two sided cuz he felt all mattresses should be able to be flipped.  He just said he wasnt sure if he could get a 22 ILD from Latex International so he needed to get hold of them first before quoting me a price.  So, I'll write again when I get more info....

I'll wait until you hear from L&W and then we can look at a few other options and compare them so you can make some final decisions and order a mattress :)

Phoenix

Yeah, I dont understand it either....I really think she was upset that we spoke with Ray instead of coming back on a day that she'd be there...must work on commission??  And, I really didnt care who was working....just wanted to test the mattresses.  Anyway, I just spoke with John at L&W and he said he just got off the phone with Latex International and that he was enlightened and learned a lot about the latex pieces.  I'm not sure if he's made many mattresses of latex that were specialized for people now.  He said something about just a med/firm core could be anywhere from 30-34 ILD...that the factory said they cant just make it be one number...that it will come out anywhere within that range.  He said a soft could be anywhere from a 20-26 ILD.  Further, he said, just the piece I have sitting there like it was (he had a 36 or 38 ILD core in his store) was $1695 and it was going to cost a lot more to add 2" of another latex that was softer onto it.  He said he'd have to laminate it??  or it would move around to much and that if I was still interested, he'd still have to figure out the cost yet but he was pretty busy right now with customers so I could call him later or he'd call me back tomorrow....huh.   He seemed a bit like he was not to sure of himself now in building it....He brought up some guy who'd bought a latex from him in the past and was never happy with it...that the guy kept bringing it back and he just couldnt get it right for him....He said he even rolled it up and sent it back to LI but they wouldnt make it good.  Wow...where do we go from here, Phoenix?  

Oh, I forgot to mention that I did find out (via internet search) that Lebeda buys their latex from Carthage, Missouri.  And, if you think that is the route we should go, I guess I could try and go back when Ray is there or go to the Davenport, IA store...it's just a few miles away from Moline, IL.  Originally, Ray said they could just build it for $1500....just no 30 day comfort exchange and only on one side.

What L&W said is correct ... expecially with Natural Talalay, not quite so much with their blend. Some manufacturers are able to specify their ILD more closely. They are too expensive anyway so I agree with you that is not your best option. That leaves us with what was likely to be your best bet all along, an online layered make your own. We have enough information now that you can probably get very close to your best configuration and if for any reason you need to change it, then exchanging a layer is very inexpensive.

A 6" core with a 2" - 3" comfort layer would be your best option. You are somewhat sensitive to sinking in too deep which is why I suggested a core in the range of 32 ILD which for your weight would provide plenty of support. This range would be a medium in most places.

The advantages of a 2" layer on top of this is that again you wouldn't sink in too far before you were being supported by the core and this would probably give you your best alignment. The disadvantage is that some people would "go through" 2" and feel slight pressure from the firmer layer underneath. I am one of these but my weight and body makeup is much different from yours so I think 2" would be fine for you. The second advantage is that 2" is slightly less expensive than 3". A wool quilting in the ticking (cover) would also lessen how far you sank into the mattress and most are available with this.

The advantages of a 3" layer on top of this is that it may feel a little softer and possibly conform a little better with less chance of you going through to a slightly firmer layer. It is unlikely that 3" in an appropriate ILD would put your spine out of alignment but if it did, then exchanging the top layer for one that is slightly firmer or changing layers would likely solve this. This may also be a little better for your SO who is slightly heavier than you are however having said that, he is not so heavy either and from what you said doesn't have bony hips so 2" would probably be fine for him too. The disadvantage of 3" is that it would cost a little more.

There are other options as far as construction as well but when you purchase in layers, it is fairly easy and inexpensive to exchange layers.

Before we go to specific suggestions and options ... do you already have a foundation to put the mattress on. If not, then we should take this into account for your budget as well. Would you prefer basic foundation or is your SO seriously thinking about an adjustable bed (you don't need it to "sleep better" as the "salesman" suggested so don't take that into consideration). They are really a luxury ... but a nice one ... unless someone has a specific medical need for them.

Phoenix

MATTRESS OPTIONS

http://www.mattresses.net/queen-adjustable-ultra-plush-latex-sleep-system.html Adjustable ultra plush sleep system $1076.42

This one is 6" of Talalay with 2" of Talalay on top with a very nice zippered wool and cotton quilt cover. The top is always soft latex (around the 22 we talked about) and the bottom can be any choice from softer to firmer that he has (28, 33, or 38 ILD). You can also make half the bed softer and the other half firmer (say 28 one side and 33 for the other) If for some reason you make a mistake, you can ship the 6" core back (would cost you about $80) and they would ship you out either a firmer one or a softer one at their cost. They can also customize the mattress if you choose by adding another 2" soft latex on top for an additional $200 or so plus a small extra shipping charge although I wouldn't recommend this in your case (4" of soft latex would probably be too much). This price is with their current special coupon which they will email to you if you request it.

http://www.sleepez.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/108 Sleep EZ 8" special $995.00

This one is 3" + 3" of Dunlop with 2" of Talalay on top with a cotton zippered cover with no wool. You can customize the firmness of each layer and in your case I would probably suggest firm on the bottom, then medium, then soft. You can exchange any layer for a softer or firmer one within 90 days for a total cost of $30 ($15 shipping each way). The Dunlop is a little firmer than the Talalay (not quite as "springy") but also high quality latex and you would be laying on the Talalay.

http://www.myluxurymattress.com/product3073.html#learnmore 9" Aristocrat latex mattress $1139.05

This one is 6" of natural Talalay with 3" on top so it has a total of 9" in it. I would suggest if you were to choose this one that you get the plush (24 ILD over 32 ILD). It has a cotton cover but with no zipper (you can't just exchange a layer). If you need a firmer core then you have 120 days to exchange it for a firmer one (this is the softest top and core they have) and they will pay for the shipping both ways. Natural latex is more expensive but in softer ILD's many people believe it is slightly less long lasting. The difference in durability for 24 ILD top is not likely to be that much and all forms of latex will last longer than most other foams.

http://www.mygreenmattress.com/view_products/naturalescape.htm Natural Escape mattress $1424.00

This one is a little different from the others. Instead of a mattress that has to be used with a certain side up, this one is 2 sided and can be "flipped". It has a 5" core of blended Talalay latex and then 2" of natural Talalay latex on either side for a total of 9" of latex. It also has a very nice wool and cotton quilted cover (no zipper) but because it is 2 sided this quilting is on both sides as well. If for some reason you need to exchange it for something firmer (this one is the softest) then you can do so for $150 shipping ($75 each way). They would arrange for shipping the mattress each way. The price here is with their current special where they upgrade their one sided mattress to 2 sided for free. The advantage of being able to flip a mattress is that you give each side a chance to "rest" a bit and it will slightly extend the life of the mattress.

http://latexmattressshop.com/index.php/comfort-level/allure-latex-plush Allure plush top mattress $989.10

This one is is 6" Dunlop latex with 2" Dunlop latex on top and then it has the nicest cover of all of them all with wool, cotton, and quilted latex in the cover. It is non zippered. You have your choice of soft medium or firm feel and again I would choose soft in your case. While soft latex is usually a little firmer than soft talalay with the same ILD, it has 7 zones which would make it a bit softer feeling and the extra quilted latex in the quilting would also add to the softness so it would be roughly equivalent to the others. You can't exchange just a layer with this one so if you're not happy with it you would have to send the whole mattress back but they would pay for the shipping both ways so it woldn't cost you anything. The price here is with a 10% coupon which they will give you if you subscribe to their email here.

http://www.customsleepdesign.com/ Waiting for a call back from him to see if he will make an 8" or 9" mattresses and what it would cost. Usually he makes them thicker (11") which while he has great value would put them out of your budget. I do like very much how he makes and customizes his mattresses and the zoning he uses so he would also be well worth talking to if he can make them a little thinner. I left him a message to ask him but he's probably gone home for the day so hopefully he'll call me back tomorrow.

Added: I received a call back from customsleep design and he does make mattresses that are 9" in width. What he does in this case is use a firmer 4" base instead of the 6" base. This would put him in the upper end of  your range "in the neighborhood" of mygreenmattress and he would be well worth talking to as his mattress construction is more tailored to individual body makeup than the others and represents great value as well, epsecially for those who have difficulty "getting it right" with more typical layered or zoning approaches. The price would depend on your choice of materials (type of latex) and construction and you have a 90 day layer exchange to adjust things if you need to.

There would be no sales tax on any of these except mygreenmattress which is in Illinois (la grange) so they would have to charge you being in the same state. If you shipped it  to somewhere in Iowa then there would be no tax. I'm assuming that Illinois has a sales tax which I don't know for sure.

FOUNDATION OPTIONS

To order a standard slatted foundation separately I would use either mattresses.net for $257.25 including shipping or Sleepez which is $260 including shipping.

If you order your mattress from latexmattressshop, then I would also order your foundation from them as they give you an extra 5% off your order if you do and it would only cost an extra $202.50

If you order your mattress from mygreen mattress, then I would order your foundation from them. They have a wooden one similar to the above which they told me would cost you an extra $129 or a stronger wooden and steel one which would cost you an extra $179. They said they would do this (a little over $100 off the regular cost) because you were close by and the shipping wouldn't be as much as other places.

I should also mention that Ikea http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/categories/departments/bedroom/10635/ carries some very interesting and low cost slatted mattress bases that can be adjusted both to increase firmness or softness in certain parts of your mattress and in some cases can raise and lower the head and foot areas as well like a traditional adjustable bed. Even their adjustable models are less than most slatted foundations. I have seen a few comments that they are not as strong as others but aside from this possibility I think they offer great value. They do have a 25 year limited warranty if they do break.

Your total price for both a mattress and foundation ranges from $1191.60 (mattress and foundation from latexmattressshop) up to $1603 (2 sided mattress and their strongest foundation from mygreenmattress but this excludes tax). The Ikea foundations would of course reduce this range.

Now comes the fun part of deciding which one but at least there is no more trips and all of these are great choices IMO.

If you have any questions just post them here.

Phoenix

 I like the idea of the 7 zones on the Allure plush top mattress but a little worried about if the Dunlop would feel to firm to me.  I also like that they have free shipping if you need to return it....as well as the 10% off coupon. 

I also liked the 9" Aristocrat cuz you get 9" of course of the Talalay latex and I love the idea you get 4 mths to decide if it's right for you in firmness...and, they will pay for the shipping both ways!  But,  I read on another post that someone said natural latex only lasts about 10 years before breaking down...is that true?  Should I be looking at a blend or the Dunlop instead of any of the Talalay? 

I liked the adjustable ultra plush sleep system cuz of the all Talalay and being able to customize both sides but a bit pricey if you need to return a layer....do you know how many times you can do this with any that say you can exchange them?? 

Thanks for all your work and and advice!  ; )

 sjeanine

P.S.  Ok, after showing all the info you posted to my SO we think we have decided to go with the Allure plush top mattress from the Latex Mattress shop.  Do you know what their warranty is?  Do you think this is a good choice?   I am wondering what the ILD is of it and if it's one big piece, not layers, how it's put together and/or would arrive.  I guess I can email them but was wondering if you knew already.   Do you think this is a good choice?  I'm just a little bit nervous tht it could be to firm...even with the soft.   Wish I could try this out first! Oh, what to do.....

P.S.S.  Should I be looking at slatted wood foundation or spring foundation?  Is there an advantage of one over the other with latex mattresses?  Thanks again.

Natural Talalay has a 10 year warranty from LI while their blended has 20. I don't believe that the blend is "twice as durable" as the natural and that the warranty is more because they are playing it safe because it hasn't been in the market nearly as long than it is about actual length of time it will last. I do believe that natural may be slightly less durable in the lower ILD's especially but it also has a slightly different feel that some people like and the fact it is natural (like most but not all Dunlop) is also attractive to many people. In the end it is a matter of preference as I believe that all the good quality types of latex have their own unique advantages and disadvantages and that overall one is not "clearly better" than another.

I think they all represent good value. The differences are really more about personal choices than anything else. I would definitely call the ones you are considering though rather than rely on me for your "final questions" that are specific to their product as I believe it is important to know who you are buying from.

I did like the mattresses at latexmattressshop as I personally liked the idea of quilted latex in my mattress. It was one of my "very final list" along with a couple of the others before I made my final decision. I know my own final decision was hard not because any one was "better" than any other but because my choices were all so great that it was difficult to decide which "combination of benefits and price" I liked the best.

Call your 3 favorites and get a sense of how you feel about them and what they say. Ask them "I'm having a hard time deciding between you and a couple of others and can you tell me about why you believe I should buy your mattress". None of them mind talking to people about the specific benefits of their mattress whether you buy or not since that is part of what they do every day. For example you could ask latexmattressshop "I really like your mattress but the other ones I'm considering are Talalay and I like soft ... could you tell me your thoughts on how your mattress with the quilting would compare to a mattress with a softer layer of Talalay on top".

These final phone calls are the fun part :)

Phoenix

PS: a boxspring is not really suitable for a latex or any foam mattress. You need a more solid base that that doesn't flex like a boxspring. The slatted ones are the best because they help the mattress to breathe. Slatted ones that are firm but adjustable in their tension in ways that can slightly alter the feel of a mattress and help "customize" it to your preference are also good choices.

Phoenix

I did not put the current 10% off when I listed the price for mattresses.net. I've changed he price above. Their special changes month to month apparently. When I was looking at them for example it was 2 pillows.

For myluxurymattress, the cover does not have wool. I changed the description of that as well. I also called them just to make sure about the type of latex they use. Unlike the others on the list, I had not talked to them before so if I was buying anything from them I would certainly talk to them first.

As I mentioned before ... this is the fun part and best of all you get to do it in the comfort of your home.

Post here if you have any questions that the answers you got don't sound "satisfying".

Phoenix

I also called myluxurymattress and was very impressed with their mattress that you quoted me....but, he said he recommended the 24/40 Talalay for me and I told him that I really thought I should have the 24/32.  He told me it was easier to soften a to hard mattress than to harden a to soft mattress and that he still thought I should go with the harder set.  Now I'm confused about what to do with them....

Based on talking with my SO and checking BBB ratings and re-reading your advice/replies...these were my top two and now I'm confused today....The second one above said he's Fed-ex-ing me some samples to feel but that is not going to help....I cant lay on samples.  His BBB rating was B- for a warranty/guarantee problem in the last 36 mths.  Sleepez's was A+ even tho they had 2-3 complaints with warrantees.   I really wish we could afford the higher end company but we just cant since we still need to find a foundation yet too.

sjeanine

Having said all that, he was quite open and also told me that while he could get the 100% natural, that it was more expensive and he normally wouldn't use it. I did find him a little difficult to talk to because he tended to start answering something before I was even finished asking (just in case he ever reads this) and what he was answering wasn't always in reply to what i was about to say ... but he clearly was not trying to be evasive and didn't want the website to misrepresent his products.

Besides him I had talked with all the others enough to know that I personally would have no problem doing business with any of them. I would consider them all to be reputable. BBB ratings are sometimes a complete misrepresentation of a company that is not registered with them (They are a private for profit company use their ratings to "encourage" and some would say "coerce" businesses to join and they rate businesses that are a member differently from those that aren't). It can be helpful in doing some research on a company but by itself the rating sometimes gives a false picture. It also gives you some "leverage" if they are a member and you have some problems but in the end it is the integrity of the owner of a company that ultimately determines how well any issues get "fixed". Shawn at Sleepez is better known on this forum and has a good reputation but having said that in my research I discovered that there are many excellent sources and outlets that have rarely if ever been mentioned on this forum (or the legacy forum that came before it) in it's long history. I purchased my mattress from one of them :)

In terms of natural vs blended Talalay latex, the difference is that the blend uses a synthetic rubber called SBR (styrene butadiene rubber) mixed with rubber from the rubber tree and the natural only uses rubber from the rubber tree. They are very similar chemically but they do have slight differences. The natural is more expensive but is generally considered to be slightly less durable than the blend which helps it to be a little more resistant to depressions. The natural is a little "springier" than the blend. Because the manufacturer also believes it won't last quite as long ... expecially in the lower ILD's, they put a shorter warranty on it of 10 years while the blend has a 20 year warranty. The fact that it is more expensive is why I suspected myluxurymattress was using the blend. It is really a matter of preference as I believe that while they are different, one is not clearly better than another and each person needs to decide for themselves if the 100% natural Talalay is worth the extra cost. Almost all the Dunlop that we talk about here on the forum is natural. There is a little more about my personal opinions about this in the "my mattress arrived" thread since my mattress has both in it. In your case, especially given your budget concerns, I would be considering the blend.

In terms of a mattress core ... the argument about it being easier to fix a mattress that is too hard than too soft doesn't really apply here since the upper 3" would be the same and both cases would involve sending the mattress back again anyway. If it was too hard and you put a soft topper on it to fix it, then it is clear to me that it wouldn't work because from your experience on matresses you would be out of alignment with more than 3" of soft latex. Your experience and feedback says to me that you would be better with the 32 but of course only your personal experience can say for sure. This is part of the risk you take but it is also why I only included outlets that were inexpensive to fix any "errors" we made. This is also why it would not be appropriate (IMO) for you to purchase a mattress from a manufacturer like the one I used where returning the mattress was so expensive that it really wouldn't be worth doing at all.  I was much more certain of what I wanted than you are although my guess is (based on your feedback) we are probably very close to a very good construction for you.

I know this last step is the hardest and how hard it is to knock off a good choice but in the end you will have to trust your best judgement. As I mentioned earlier I believe they are all good choices. It is the differences that are important to YOU that in the end will help you decide.

Phoenix