Mattress Forum

So, I kicked off the comforter, but it sucks only sleeping with a top sheet.  Got up, took the protect-a-bed off.  Not an issue, felt same without it.  Opened window more.  Later on took comforter off and put a light blanket on. 

I ate too much ice cream (darn Ben & Jerry's) after 6pm last night.  Could be part of the problem.

We're having cool weather too.  Overcast every night since I got the bed 4 nights ago.  What's going to happen when we have hot weather?  No A/C here, and I wouldn't want to waster energy compensating for a too hot mattress anyway.

I'll keep going on it, but I'm skeptical now.  No other issues, just too warm last night and also too warm using body pillow night before. 

I just tried the iComfort Revolution & Insight for the 10th time. This time the store also had the Tempur-Pedic Rhapsody & Cloud Supreme so I could really compare. I have to say that I felt like I was in a hammock on both iComforts. I'm not a big guy either @ 130 lbs.

Room temp is pretty close to 65 F.  We don't have A/C.  I think most don't have it near the SF Bay.  Bay is about 3 miles West of here.

Sorry about your experience.

I am 6'2" tall and about 195 lbs.  I'm not having any neck or backaches after 5 nights on the Revolution.  It's a plush mattress and I sink into it somewhat, but the support is there for me.

I always felt like the support was there on the Insight, but it is a little firmer, so I skipped it.  Genius is most firm.

Keep in mind the Rhapsody is in Tempurpedic's HD line.  Rhapsody feels quite a bit firmer and dense to me than a iComfort Revolution. 

I thought the Cloud Luxe felt similar to a Revolution, but hard to remember as this hot brunette saleslady was talking to me the whole time I was trying the Cloud :)  I recall the Cloud Supreme is somewhat firmer than Revolution.

 

It's a pretty good mattress.  It's as supportive as the Stearns and Foster I had and more pressure relieving too. 

In the other thread someone mentioned a stinky Insight mattress when new.  My Revolution sure was not stinky.  I stuck my nose right up to it and didn't smell anything.

and I'm still simmering on the underside in this bed!  Everything contacting the bed surface is too warm!  Definitely not cool!  And I don't feel refreshed this morning.

And to be clear, conventional beds never sleep too hot to me.  The only time things are too hot is when we have a heat wave and the air temperature is too warm in the room to sleep. We don't have A/C and we don't need it. 

I'm already looking at other beds.  Not looking good for Revolution at this point.  Sort of a shame because it is more pressure relieving than the S&F plush I exchanged for it.  But if the warm thing keeps happening, I'll likely be going for a refund in a week. 

So, I need to start looking for the next bed.

Argh!

I can't breathe very well in this bed.  It's 4 3/4" of memory foam - 2 3/4" of gel infused and 2" of 'Kool Komfort' memory foam.  I'm sinking in too much.  I weigh 195 lbs and 6'2" tall.

This morning I was sleeping with my knees up (more fetal position) and the mattress felt pretty good.  Enough support and breathing was decent.  My back feels better this morning.

But last night I crawled into bed and stretched out on my side.  Felt myself sinking down and thought, ah man, need to go to the couch.

So, I'm a little confused. 

One good thing is this mattress is very pressure relieving.  I can spend much more time on my right shoulder than my plush conventional mattress. 

So, I just need to have another mattress picked out.  Meanwhile I ought to give this Revolution more time.  It's so different.  I hope I'm figuring it out.

Last time I'll buy a mattress from Sears.

When you purchase a first mattress from Sears, the back of sales receipt states mattresses and home electronics are given 30 days for refund or exchange.  Stores have a sign stating 'Sears allows 1 time even exchange for another comfort level of your choice within 30 days'.

Both of these statements speak of what your options are for the first mattress, but they don't definitively say what the fate is for your 2nd mattress.

The correct way for it to be stated would be this -

Sears allows for a one-time exchange or refund* of your mattress within 30 days if you are not satisfied with your original purchase.

* Note a 15% restocking fee will apply to refunds.

--------------------------------------------------------

Sears policy for the 2nd mattress is implied and open to interpretation.    The interpretation depends on who you talk to.  Mulitple sales clerks told me an exchange mattress could be refunded.  Coroporate and management say no.

I tried to negotiate a refund at even 30% restocking fee, but there were problems - I had done 3 mattress orders and cancellations prior to delivery (firm to icomfort to Plush to twin XL instead of twin).  Manager saw that and denied a refund.  The other store said it's been over 30 days since first mattress, even though I've had the 2nd one less than 2 weeks.  I'm stuck with it.  But now I understand pretty much any place allows only 1 exchange or refund of a whole mattress.  Still the 30 day policy bites.  It is too short.  That's what you get for their everyday low prices ... and more limited selection.

"Sorry to read about these troubles. Maybe if you work exclusively with the salesmen who are telling you they will give you another exchange....Let us know how it turns out, please!"

They've already denied a refund on the exchange because the original mattress was purchased over 30 days ago. 

This mattress is pressure relieving for sure, but I'm skeptical about spine support.  My neck doesn't hurt, but when I turn my head, I can hear my neck is not totally smooth.  Sure seems like my pillow is fine.  My pillow is a Tempurpedic Symphony which I've used for 3 years with no problems.  My head doesn't seem up to high.  It seems like maybe my hips are sunk in a little too much.

Other thing is when I turn from my side, I can tell I'm warmer against the mattress than a conventional one.  Not sweaty, just warmer than usual.

The other thing is memory foam has such a dead feel.  No springiness. 

Don't know who I talked to at SleepEZ, but he was kind and knowledgable.  He said give it 30 days or more for sure, which I will do.  If it's still bad after 30 days, I might to give SleepEZ a go as their prices are quite a bit less than Flobeds, Savvy Rest or our local Natural Mattress Store.

Well, I appreciate learning from your experience. Thank you for posting. You can probably sell it for close to what you paid if it's virtually brand-new. Someone else might really like it. Appreciate the heads up about Sears' exchange policy and selection, too.

Thank you for your encouragement.  We can learn from each other and beat the mattress biz at their own game :)
 

When I sit on the Revolution bed, my butt sinks in quite a lot.  If I put a pillow under my knees when laying on my back, the pillow sinks in somewhat.  When I lay on my back, my butt sinks in a fair amount.  My hips sink in quite a bit when laying on my side....

this bed is just tooo plush!  Too soft.  Sure, it's comfortable and easy on the joints, even after 8 hours in it, but it is too soft.

So, like I said in another post, be very careful picking out this mattress unless you can handle really soft mattresses.  I would think this must be what a pillow top is like when it is already worn out.  So, I got a 'worn out' new mattress. 

My upper back and neck have been a little out of whack with this mattress.  If it doesn't work out soon, I'll have to buy another mattress or set.

Also, when I woke up slightly when turning over, I could feel the excess heat under my body.  How does the heat get whisked away when there is no airflow system of convoluted foam beneath the memory foam like in Tempurpedic?

A wool mattress cover would probably help deal with the heat-buildup issue....

I am in mattress sales.  Only for about 5 months, but I have learned quite a bit in that time.  I work for a nice local company, and am not high-pressure etc.  I also just received MY iComfort Revolution today.  Can't wait to sleep on it, and I'll probably report back to let you know how it's going. 

I mainly wanted to respond to a few points that were brought up throughout this entire thread.....

Heat:  With aTempurpedic/iComfort you WILL SLEEP HOT for approx 3 weeks or so.  This is due to the severe increase in bloodflow/ciculation due to the pressure relief (in men, mainly in the shoulder areas).  That said, your body should adjust after that period.  I have yet to have an iComfort OR Tempurpedic returned for heat.  Tempurpedic reports only 4% of returns due to heat, and only 3% within our company.  Beds in general will be returned for heat issues at about 10%.

BUT, I have heard from a salesperson in our company that he wishes he had went with an icomfort over his cloud supreme because it is slightly hot.  I won't be able to compare, because I've never owned a tempurpedic.

iComfort mattresses "cool" you with their gel-infused memory foam, or so they claim.  Tempurpedic uses an "airflow" system, and also claims that their tempur material cell-structure is more uniform, thus allowing more air to flow through.  I think both are bs.

A wool or latex topper could help perhaps.  Wool may cool you slightly, while a latex topper may help cool AND provide some additional support.  The iComfort Prodigy has this, and sounds like it would have been a better choice for the OP in this case.  But you don't know until you try.

Firmness:  The info given above is correct.  The Revolution compares most closely to the Cloud Luxe.  The Supreme is a bit more firm than both.  The Genius is the most firm, and the Insight is the "medium" firmness.   HD Rhapsody is different, and a bit more firm than Rev/Clouds.  May have been a better choice for OP, but hindsight is 20/20.  Also, the brand new tempurpedic Countour series (which replaces the classic and deluxe) may be a good middle ground of softness/support.

Possible Solutions for backpain:  OP was good to try some diff pillows.  It's all about proper spinal alignment for your particular sleeping habits.  I may need a thinner pillow for my new revolution since it is rathar "plush".  Our bodies are all different, but getting that spine as straight as possible with mattress AND pillow ensures that your muscles can relax properly.

As mentioned, a latex topper may give you the support you need PLUS cool you down.  It MAY be the cheapest fix.  Or you need a more firm mattress. 

Also, an adjustable base would probably work also, but it more expensive.  OP have you tried an adjustable base?  It can really work wonders for back pain.  It may be your missing puzzle-piece, and why virtually NO MATTRESS has worked for you yet.

Returns:  I can understand the company sticking you with that mattress.  As much as I appreciate the thorough play-by-play on your mattress, in my sales experience.....you may NEVER find the perfect mattress.  Usually anyone "over-thinking" their issues this much is destined to endure an endless hunt for "perfection" which doesn't exist.  Perhaps more excersize and stretching on a regular basis is the real answer, yet the mattress will always take the blame.  I hope this isn't the case with you.  Your review seemed much more "informative" than "neurotic" in my opinion.  Regardless, the company only has so much "room" built into their retail markup to allow for returns, which is why they have a specific policy, and ALSO why the mattress "game" is so shady!  Customers want low prices, free delivery and unlimited exchanges, yet complain when they find out how much their mattress was marked up from the get-go.  Nothing is free, and you always get what you pay for. 

I hope this may have helped a bit.  I don't intend to frequent this formu, but perhaps I'll give some feedback on my revolution experience over the next few weeks.  I'm pretty sure I'll love it.  My old mattress sucked.

About the adjustable bed bases .. I would love to try one at home.  I've tried them in the stores several times and they're fantastic!

About the beds I've tried recently - I'm being extra picky this time around.  I know no bed is perfect and nothing guarantees a perfect nites sleep.  But, basically, I've had

1) a basic open coil low end mattress with 2" ordinary HD foam topper

2) entry level Stearns and Foster with 4" or ordinary foam in comfort and quilt layers

3) iComfort Revolution that is very plush.  I'm trying to make it work.  If it doesn't, it's already paid for and I can afford to get another mattress set.

Leave it to Serta to make this lineup go from Insight to Prodigy as medium, firm, ultra plush and plush.  I found the same thing with the Vera Wang latex collection.  Serta is off the mark, IMO.

A couple of comments on your comments. I do appreciate folks from the industry chiming in. I especially hope some of you insiders will help resolve some of the serious problems affecting us poor sucker consumers.

Quote: "With aTempurpedic/iComfort you WILL SLEEP HOT for approx 3 weeks or so.  This is due to the severe increase in bloodflow/ciculation due to the pressure relief (in men, mainly in the shoulder areas)." This does not seem to make sense. Pressure relief does not create heat due to increase in bloodflow/circulation,. Heat is due to lack of circulation. Think about when areas get hot due to swelling or inflamation. The blood goes to that area and stays there, and builds up there, to bring white blood cells in and fight the infection or injury. That is what causes heat - retention, not circulation.

The real problem with these gels and synthetic foams is they are not porous enough to allow for air flow and the areas that sink in especially get hot because of lack of air flow and circulation. Plain and simple. Those that worked some way around it, with air tunnels and passageways are more effective at releasing the heat and perspiration buildup. But the materials themselves do not absorb moisture released by the numan body during sleep. It runs off and builds up if there is nowhere to go.

As to "overthinking," how about the industry takes a good hard look at the "overspending" that is required to even test one of these mattresses in field conditions over enough time to know whether or not there are problems?

I agree, there is no good way of handling the need to return and exchange used mattresses.

The only solution is for mattress manufacturers and distributors is to start taking consumer complaints seriously, and create better products to resolve the real problems.

I agree that nothing about this statement makes sense. I would like to know the source for such a claim please.

edit - I talked to Serta this morning.  Lady denied there is an all new line of iComforts coming this Fall.  Seems the Mancini's mgr. is mistaken.

Go Serta!  The set is 4 weeks old!

Shine a flashlight up under your Serta StabL base foundations.  I don't think you'll be too impressed.

oh brother .. juunnkk

If this bed is borderline too soft or is already too soft...it will only get worse over time; polyurethane foams soften with use.  This is a fact, not opinion.  I think you are doing the right thing to try and look for an alternative now.

"I'm giving up on this bed.  3 1/2 weeks, neck stiff and makes noise every morning.  Pressure relieving on joints, that's the only plus.  Inadeqaute support, sink in too much. Leave it to Serta to make this lineup go from Insight to Prodigy as medium, firm, ultra plush and plush.  I found the same thing with the Vera Wang latex collection.  Serta is off the mark, IMO."

Inadequate support for your body.  Works great for me.  But I've witnessed my FAVORITE bed (Cloud Luxe) mis-align other people's spine, meaning that the support was WRONG for their body shape/size/distribution.  I disagree that the support is "inadequate".  You simply chose the wrong bed.   Also, Serta offers a "triple choice" of firmness in MOST other lines, meaning each bed can be extra-firm/luxury-firm/pillow-top.  That does make life easier for sales and consumers.  But since the iComforts are new this year, they haven't yet went to a tempur-like setup (ie: Cloud, Cloud Supreme, Cloud Luxe).  I imagine it will in a year or two.  This means that you have to deal with the 4 choices/prices as is.  Some will get lucky, and save $$ on a firmer comfort preference.  But in the long run, they will devise a way (like Tempur) to ensure that 80% of customers feel BETTER on the more expensive choice.  Once again, although you are complaining now about the selection, it comes back to making the wrong (yet informed) desicion.  I personally think that Serta is one of the best "big" brands around, but no bed company is "perfect". 

In response to the "confusion" regarding my "claim" (I am not a scientist) that you will sleep hotter for 3 weeks due to increased circulation......  It's simple.  Increased circulation to extremeties WILL raise your body's tempature.  Our bodies adapt to changes in homeostasis (I hope I'm using that term correctly here....pretty sure I am) over time, depending of course on the particular change.  The idea is, on your (my) old mattress my bloodflow to my arms was being cut off in my shoulders due to pressure points on my crappy, hard mattress.  With the new one, my arms are getting MUCH more circulation, resulting in warmer extremities.  After a few weeks, my body will "learn" this to be "normal" and will start to slightly restrict bloodflow to my arms, since my body will no longer be in fear of my (what used to be "normal") lack of blood circulation to my arms.  The user response of "Heat is due to lack of circulation" is simply false.  

"As to 'overthinking,' how about the industry takes a good hard look at the 'overspending' that is required to even test one of these mattresses in field conditions over enough time to know whether or not there are problems?" and "The only solution is for mattress manufacturers and distributors is to start taking consumer complaints seriously, and create better products to resolve the real problems."

I can't believe I'm seriously addressing these "responses" above, as they are so obviously biased and angry, I will attempt to give WeeWillyWinky an unbiased look into buisiness101.  First off, I ask consumers (namely American consumers) to take just a bit of responsibility for their purchases.  For example, if you do your research and take time listening, and learning about your mattress, odds are you'll get it right the first time.  In 5 months, I have yet to process a comfort exhange.  I work very closely with customers to find a mattress to fit their needs.  Many will fight me on this, but I will not sell a mattress to someone who barely tries it.  It WILL end up in more headaches than my commision is worth.  That said, my customers get a 100 day (damn near 3 MONTHS!!) comfort-EXHANGE program.  I have heard of comfort-return policies also, which is ridiculous.  If you buy a bed, sleep on it, return it, and buy elsewhere.....you are a selfish person.   That company paid delivery crews, gas and insurance to get your mattress to you.  The salesperson was paid commision, which will now come OUT of his/her paycheck with a return.  And the company (hopefully local, or you are hurting your economy) lost hudreds more on the shipping costs, and the loss on selling that mattress "used".  There is no reason you can't find your perfect mattress in 2 tries or less.  Otherwise, watch a documentary about poor people in 3rd-world countries who sleep on dirt floors, starving and dying of de-hydration.....then tell me how that bed feels.  And WeeWilly.....do you REALLY think that manufacturers DO NOT consider consumer complaints when they build mattresses?  If so, you can now dismiss your future opinions from this forum discussion, because you don't understand the first thing about business.  As if EVERY new development in the bedding industry comes from......space?  Heresay?  Magic?  Dreams?  Maybe a 6 yr old won a contest to design the next multi-million dollar full production run of mattresses? 

"Mgr. said they are getting the 'new' line of iComforts this Fall. So, whoever buys now is getting the 'first year model' of iComforts...." 

Could be a lie.  I've heard nothing about it, but who knows?  I've got a 25yr warranty on my iComfort, so I welcome any issues/recalls.  It's not a playstation, it's a memory-foam bed.  Not much to go wrong, other than picking the wrong one!  There will certainly be "improvements" in the future, since the iComfort line did way better than expected.  I imagine mostly that the price will increase, and they will make adjustments to the 4-bed selection.

"Hah!  Just discovered a bent piece of verticle support rod in the 'StabL Base' Serta foundation for this iComfort mattress."

Bummer.......or IS it?!!  That could be the "lack of support" you've been feeling!!  I have yet to see that issue with any of the (many) serta bases I've sold, but certainly it will happen.  So far, I've found that the serta boxes are less-noisy than the cheaper ones we sell.  Anyway, try your mat with the replacement box and let me know if it has helped any.  Curious to know how it works out.

My experience:

I love the bed.  But as mentioned before, I'm easy to please.  Just turned 30, in decent shape (5' 9'' 160 lbs) so no serisous pain/body issues to solve with me.  It's all been improvements, when compared to my crappy low-end Sealy Posturpedic (ashton extra-firm, extra free at the time!).  It's been relatively HOT for portland recently, and almost no one has (or needs) AC here.  I also have a waterproof mattress protector over the mattress, and no heat issues.  I think it sleeps a bit cooler than my old mat, but once again, that was a cheap one.

I never knew that partner disturbance was an issue, until it was eliminated with my Revolution.  I'm sleeping the WHOLE night through for once, and waking up extremely sharp and refreshed when compared to the past few years. 

My only issue is that my latex pillows are a bit to firm to give me complete and proper spinal alignment.  Not the beds fault, but it's too plush when used with my pillow.  If I had wider shoulders, I could still use them.  I'll replace them soon.

Hope that helps someone out there.  Thanks to everyone (except Wee) for your informed posts, and insight into this mattress and more.  It's been great to learn from you all here, as well as to give a little "industry" insight.....altnhough I'm just a sales-guy!  I'm just like you, but with a bit more mattress knowledge and a better discount!!  Best of luck to everyone here on finding the best bed for you!  I can't believe what a better night sleep does for me.  Amazing.  I hope you find yours. 

"I can't believe I'm seriously addressing these "responses" above, as they are so obviously biased and angry, I will attempt to give WeeWillyWinky an unbiased look into buisiness101.  First off, I ask consumers (namely American consumers) to take just a bit of responsibility for their purchases.  For example, if you do your research and take time listening, and learning about your mattress, odds are you'll get it right the first time.  In 5 months, I have yet to process a comfort exhange.  I work very closely with customers to find a mattress to fit their needs.  Many will fight me on this, but I will not sell a mattress to someone who barely tries it.  It WILL end up in more headaches than my commision is worth.  That said, my customers get a 100 day (damn near 3 MONTHS!!) comfort-EXHANGE program.  I have heard of comfort-return policies also, which is ridiculous.  If you buy a bed, sleep on it, return it, and buy elsewhere.....you are a selfish person.   That company paid delivery crews, gas and insurance to get your mattress to you.  The salesperson was paid commision, which will now come OUT of his/her paycheck with a return.  And the company (hopefully local, or you are hurting your economy) lost hudreds more on the shipping costs, and the loss on selling that mattress "used".  There is no reason you can't find your perfect mattress in 2 tries or less.  Otherwise, watch a documentary about poor people in 3rd-world countries who sleep on dirt floors, starving and dying of de-hydration.....then tell me how that bed feels.  And WeeWilly.....do you REALLY think that manufacturers DO NOT consider consumer complaints when they build mattresses?  If so, you can now dismiss your future opinions from this forum discussion, because you don't understand the first thing about business.  As if EVERY new development in the bedding industry comes from......space?  Heresay?  Magic?  Dreams?  Maybe a 6 yr old won a contest to design the next multi-million dollar full production run of mattresses? "

With all due respect how much do you think you know about this business 5 months into it?  You seem to still be in the honeymoon phase that these big businesses give two shits about the customers that buy from them. Here are some reality checks for you:

1. The first thing about business (since you seem to think WeeWilly doesn't get it) is actually to make money.  This may or may not include making the best possible product, however any company claiming that they don't care about profit is being disengenuous.  There are just some more ethical ways of getting there than others.

2. In the case of these major bed companies with their insanely high profit margins and lack of transparency contributing to customer confusion, the last 40 years has not been about making the best possible product, its been about charging the most possible for a product that is not worth the asking price. 

3. Customer feedback for the last few years has not been - cost cut on the materials, make my mattress less durable and supportive and still charge me the same price for it. These ideas for how mainstream beds are designed did not come from space but they most certainly did not come from customer feedback. More like accountants shitting their pants when times are tough and competition becomes greater.  Instead of competing on product to be the best, its been a constant undercutting of the competition...I call this 'the race to the bottom' 

4. People do actually shop around a fair bit before they buy a bed, little did the thought occur to most people that there are better choices than what the big retailers carry, they just happen to go to the few places they have heard of (through advertising) that know carry mattresses.  They spend some time laying on a few beds @ each store, realize very quickly that they all carry basically the same stuff.  And its enough to give them confidence to buy....its not always the consumers fault when they are not happy. 

5. I am also in the industry and I have had people come to me after years of sleeping on a memory foam bed (Tempur and others) say that it is too hot.  There may exist a small period of time when someone could go through some physiological changes, but perspiration is always going to be an issue.  The bloodflow has little to do with why these beds sleep hot, it is primarily from a raised humidity level near the skin that inhibits our bodies ability to regulate our own temperature which btw is almost completely done through perspiring.  If the humidity becomes too great, we feel clammy and the hot feels that much hotter, vice versa if you are a cold sleeper you will also feel even colder and may need another blanket.  Believe me there are mattresses that are significantly cooler sleeping than something made out of 100% plastic.

6. It is not selfish for someone to want to completely return a bed for the following reasons:

A) They were misled and lied to about product information

B) That the retailer does not carry the correct type of mattress to suit their needs.

For the record, Mr. A, when I wrote that lack of circulation creates heat, I was referring to air/moisture circulation when lying on the mattress, not to the body's circulation. It seems other readers were able to pick that up, but I guess you didn't.

And, Mr. A, unfortunately I've encountered numerous salesmen of your type over too many years, and dismissive comments and misleading arguments like yours give salesmen their well-deserved bad reputation.

I've got more bad news for you. The people on this forum do take the time to find out what went wrong and what works, and why and how. They do their research. They share their knowledge and experiences with each other. The people here don't like throwing away their dollars on products that waste their money, their time, their health.

The reason this forum is necessary and active as it is documented in our pocketbooks, our disappointments, our aching bodies and sleepless nights.

Glib Insults and patronizing comments are not going to persuade anyone here that we're overthinking the problems we've experienced, or the creative solutions we're finding.

Maybe such approaches will work on the showroom floor, though, until the buyers end up here with the rest of us.

I take responisibility that I chose the wrong bed.  I had no experience that an overly plush mattress (for me) would be the beginning of mostly neck discomfort.  Now I know.

I don't know about the increased blow flow / feeling warmer sensation in bed.  It seems the excess warmth is due to lack of heat dissipation because it is not going away, the excess warmth seems permanent.

In regards to refunds, Sears policy was if you return a bed within 30 days, you are charged a 15% restocking fee and pickup.  I would have been fine with that had I known the iComfort, which was advertised with a 120 'risk free in home trial' would not be returnable in any way after exchangin to it.

As for the Stearns and Foster Hearthstone Luxury Plush (the entry level model, but still $1,125 twin XL set), the bed positively firmed up in the comfort layers for me.    I laid on that bed so many times in the store, sometimes for 20 minutes straight, and I liked it.  The feel at home by morning time was notably firmer than ever in the store.   If a retailer is selling a mattress like this, then they better offer some kind of return policy.  I don't expect to get 100% of money back.  Nor do I like to do returns.  Returns are a hassle for everyone involved. 

But as a customer, I want a bed that feels just like in the store, and I want it to maintain that comfort through the night.

Anyhoo, Mr. Veasy told me (claimed) that retailers charge a large fee (something like $5,000) per mattress to the mfrs. for every store.  He also mentioned there are other retailer fees, something called 'Spiffs' that are charged to the manufacturers.  And other fees too.  If all true, it sounded like large chunks of money are raked in by retailer from manufacturers.  Plus, apparently there are large mark ups.

If all true, no wonder the prices are high and the materials perhaps are not all that for the price.

It is business though.  And if mattress making was easy, many would be doing it at home.

Manufacturers offer spiffs to salespeople in order to gain favour/sales in many cases. I wish I could have manufacturers renting spots on my showroom though, that would be nice...maybe it works differently in the US than in Canada.

Customers and their demands help create the industry and products most commonly available.  They don't just appear out of no where and become the "norm" for no reason.  In this industry specifically, customers claim to want one thing, but go for the other.  The best example is markup/discounts.  OF COURSE we all say we want low prices and no-haggling.  But who wins time and time again?  The shady store that tells a customer they are getting a "$2,000 bed for only $800!!".  As with Tempurpedic, who controls their pricing.....customers ALWAYS demand an extra discount.  Getting the same low-price isn't enough.

So customers want quality.  Low prices.  Durability.  Made in America.  Huge warranties.  Green products/manufacturing.  Free delivery (yeah, we'll pay 2 guys $13 per hour to bring it to your home.  Plus the $50 in gas for the big truck, and we'll also insure your home.  And it'll be free.  No, we won't work it in the price anywhere......).  Free financing.  Free 10+ return policy.  Etc.  Etc.

I don't like the industry either.  I WISH I could see the same prices everywhere on all products.  I wish I didn't have to "haggle" to get a sale.  But who does want to?  You do.  The customer does.  You want everything, for nothing, just like most fat, lazy 'Mericans.  Not saying I'm innocent either.  Sure I've only been selling mattresses for 5 months, but that doesn't negate the YEARS of furniture management experience I've also had.  (Yeah, you don't know me just from a forum post, but thanks for being so quick to judge!!)

I have no agenda here.  I just wanted to share my experience as a revolution customer, as well as some insight from my perspective.  As with most forums, this has turned into an internet tough-guy shouting match, and I will no longer partake.  I'll check back to see what the deal is with that broken box, but I'm not taking part in the shouting match that this has become.  Especially since so many here have the ONLY CORRECT answer to how memory foam beds hold/dissipate heat.  Seriously, read the comment flow above.....I never stated to be ALL-KNOWING, or correct.  I simply stated my view and experience, which was promptly mis-understood.  And Wee, I did mis-understand what circulation you were referring to (blood vs air).  But before trying to make me sound like an ass whilst patting yourself on the back amidst your HIGH horse, remember that most people use the term "air-flow" when dealing with beds, and not "air-circulation".  But alas, I'm not alone in using "Glib Insults and patronizing comments", am I then? 

I must say that despite some aggression, the utter "know-it-all" responses to my opinions ("unfortunately I've encountered numerous salesmen of your type"), and people putting words in my mouth..... the original poster here has been very cordial and professional.  I at no time meant for my "overlapping" comments (such as "customers claim to want one thing, but go for the other"....) to apply directly to you.  It has been a pleasure reading your original opinions, and the experiences thereafter.  Anyone considering buying a Revolution will benefit greatly from this post and the interactions within.  I'm still curious to see if a new foundation helps your lack of support issue.  But the Revolution will always be quite plush.

And Wee.....  way to attack me personally without any real info or insight on the situation.  I'm obviously a vindictive salesman (I repeat your words "unfortunately I've encountered numerous salesmen of your type"), and most likely a liar and a theif as well.  I'm not a musician, an artist, a lover, nor do I enjoy spending my free time and energy working with non-profit organizations to better my community.  I just register as a new user to a bed-forum and spread lies all day for no money.  Yep.  Well, enjoy your time on the forums, as I'm betting you don't get much time outside in the real world.  But that's just my guess, I won't pretend to know. 

And once again.....much respect to slpngoc for an un-biased look into his/her sleep experience.  

Likewise. Your personal attacks on me and putting words in my mouth required a response.

The problem with opinions on how things work is that even though people feel they have a right to their opinions, they do not have the right to express them without criticism.  If they feel they have the right to say them that is okay, but we also have to accept the fact that with expressing opinions (especially in a discussion forum) it will also inevitably open up those opinions to criticism and or praise.  I am sorry if i upset you in anyway, however it is a well known fact that perspiring is how we cool our selves off, there is a reason the humidex plays a big role in how hot we 'feel', this is the same in the bedroom.  When humidity levels become high, perspiring becomes useless as the air is already saturated.  There probably is a modicum of truth about circulation or even just being on a soft mattress that has more contact with the body will make someone feel cosier.  I repeatedly bring this up because perhaps the OP would not have had an issue with heat if they had a woolen mattress protector instead of a plastic one.  However this is a moot point as clearly it is not supportive enough for them anyway and the mattress will only get softer with use. 

This is not an internet tough guy match, but you are the one spouting your credentials and you quite literally said "I'm just like you, but with a bit more mattress knowledge and a better discount!! "  If it feels like a yelling match maybe its because you use a lot of exclimation points.  No one is attacking you, but clearly you did something to make others feel defensive.

You are extremely wrong to assume that you have more mattress knowledge than posters on this forum.  The vast majority of posters here are on the consumer front but their are a lot of bright people here who know far more than the average consumer and the average salesperson.

As to Audio, I read Audio's original post.  To his defense, I don't see too much out of line.  except I disagree one sleeps hot 3 weeks due increased circulation. That iComfort was having me hotter for good, but I was sunk pretty far into it.

Sounds to me like he's into mattresses like any enthused new salesperson would be.  I agree with his opinions comparing iComfort and TP's.  I also appreciated his suggestion for an adjustable bed as I've checked those out too.

Can't say I would want to be in mattress sales getting beaten up on price and priviledges.   I've seen customers walk into Sleep Train here and start beating on a salesperson for 1/2 off the posted price.  It must be brutal.  Especially the long hours one must be at the store and it is very slow.  I've met a lot of nice local mattress salespeople.  Some of them seem misinformed, but some salespeople don't care too awfully much about technical details. 

audioinjection wrote:

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm really not that demanding at all. All I expected was a comfortable product that would hold up longer than 5 weeks, after I paid nearly $1200 for  it. It did not, and all the cozy friendliness of the salesman changed drastically when I went to return it. They tried to talk me out of exchanging it, and insisted I didn't know what I knew and saw with my own eyes, namely that this very expensive bed was sagging in the middle.

I also resented the scripted replies, which all the salesmen were obviously ordered to spout, "Oh we all have that bed and we love it".  Nods all around. I sent my sister-in-law in to look at another type of bed, and surprise! Suddenly all the SAME sales people owned THAT brand and loved it. Did they all change beds overnight?  I know people have to sell things, and may fudge or fluff a bit (or a lot) but boldfaced lying and deception is another matter. It's insulting to be perceived as an idiot.

I really doubt anyone would buy any other type of $1200 item (big screen TV, etc) then just swallow it when the item stops working after 5 weeks. I doubt anyone would tolerate having a repairman sent who tells you, "Well, the TV only stops working a few times a day, so the problem is not severe enough for us  to honour our warranty and we won't give you a refund either. Tough luck, right?".

I don't mind paying whatever price for a quality item, after all, you get what you pay for. It's NOT getting what I paid for that irked me. And yes, I did expect free delivery of such a pricey item that was 15 minutes from my home. The exchange bed cost me $50 delivery, so I got nothing free.

I think lots of people are looking forward to seeing your feedback over the coming weeks.

Thank you.  I'll do my best.  And I can assure you I'm just a regular guy.  No employment with any mattress business.  Nor anyone in our family.

btw, did you see thread how I measured 5.75" of memory foam within iComfort Revolution? 

I have photos of the Sears / iComfort ad board that clearly states  2.75" gel , 2" Kool memory foam, that's 4.75"

Maybe nobody cares, cause feel matters, but it struck me funny.

Yeah I did notice that, not sure why that is....is there supposed to be any latex in the Revolution? What is the next model above it supposed to be and total height?  

If you think about it the GrandBed from Tempur has like 7.2" total memory foam....so maybe it isn't the quantity that is the issue...I have yet to see a density rating on the icomforts though...if we really think about it, the total depth of memory foam doesn't really tell us how much material there is, its the total mass of the material that effects the price the most, and the density effects the performance of the material the most as the density determines how easily you sink into the mattress based on body weight vs body heat. 

No latex in Revolution. Prodigy gets the latex, probly 1".  All four must have 6" regular PU cores + 2.75, 4.75, 5.75, 6.75 other layers , Insight to Prodigy.

The feel of the Revolution was very consistent over four weeks. 
 

the freakin' law tag is not even sewn into the cover of the mattress ... it is stuck like a Post-It onto a tag that is sewn into the cover of the mattress. IOW, anyone (mfr. , retailer, whoever) could peel off the law tag, stick on another.

I have a photo of it if anyone is that curious.

Isn't actual law tag supposed to be sewn into the mattress cover?

I really don't know what to think of this industry.

I've seen more than a few Tempurpedics advertised for about 1/2 original cost.  Like, king size TP original, asking $1200.  Wonder if they get near that

It's really sad that your salespeople treated you like that.  If your bed is sagging, there is a possibility it is covered under warranty.  Mainly, your warranty is protecting you against sagging.  Despite the salepeople urging you not to return it, stay strong.....you DO have rights, and the right to a warranty inspection.  Salespeople just hate the idea of losing commission that they've already been paid on.  It's very un-professional.

Also, many companies will charge for an exchange delivery if it's a choice, and not a warranty, such as a comfort exchange.  But be aware that, even if it was "free"..... you still paid for it somewhere in your price.  There is no such thing as two guys driving around a big truck all day, paying for gas and to insure your home while delivering heavy mattresses in the hot sun, and doing it for free.  It just doesn't happen.  Even the first "free" delivery isn't free, it's paid for in the obscene retail markups.   Sorry, but it's true.

Sorry, and you're right.  I don't actually feel that way completely, as there have been some VERY informed comments on this topic.  Even the OP, though looking for advice and a solution, had proven to be a wealth of knowledge him/herself.  My comment did however give that impression.  Apologies.

"I'm sorry Mr. A, but your first two posts were so much like an advertisement that I immediately had no interest in hearing anything else you had to contribute.  Your bias was obvious.......... He rarely says 'THIS ONE THIS ONE BUY IT' like you have done.  If you just shut up and read, you could learn a lot...... "

I have no bias, just severe excitement over having purchased the first decent bed I have ever owned.  At age 30, I went from a super firm POS low-profile bargain mattress to a Revolution.  And the only way I could afford one on my meager paycheck, was getting an employee below-cost offer from Serta.  Also, I never told anyone to buy this mattress at all.  I would challenge you to quote me on either, but after your "just shut up and read" comment, I am literally shaking in my office chair with fear of your internet toughness.  Chuck Norris has nothing on you, "mattress forum tough-guy who don't take nothing from nobody"! 

"As to Audio, I read Audio's original post.  To his defense, I don't see too much out of line. "  Thanks.  That actually means alot, not that I'm taking anyones insults here very seriously.  Glad to see you didn't jump in on the "there's a mattress guy.....let's GIT HIM!!" lynch mob.  I half expected it. 

Anyway, thanks again for starting this post!  It really has a ton of great info from all perspectives, regarding the revolution.  And in my opinion, it's all about THE RIGHT MATTRESS FOR YOU, and that can be different for everyone.  Take time to learn about what's going on in your mattress* as well as taking the time to truly comfort test in-store.  Know your rights regarding return/exchange policies!!  It's your responsibility as a consumer, to help avoid the "don't return it" sales pressure.  If you deal with a good, local company, that shouldn't happen.  But again, it's all about personal comfort and spinal alignment.  And, use a consistent pillow to comfort test.  Different pillows will literally change the way your body reacts to each mattress. 

*although I personally don't know all the stats regarding how many inches per layer in Temp or iComfort even half as well as slpngoc or many others.  But, as slpngoc had mentioned, I DO know how the beds feel/react/compare all the way through the iComfort/Tempur line.  I'm not saying to NOT learn that stuff, but I just feel that it can be a bit of a distraction (to some consumers) from the feel.  Some people get too hung up (in my opinion) on 1.75 inches, or 1.85 etc., and stop focusing on what matters.....how those layers make you FEEL.  And in my opinion, as opposed to innerspring beds, memory-foam beds don't provide tangible benefits or "upgrades" (other than, arguably, the Tempur dual airflow chambers) as you pay more/add more comfort layers.  This allows customers to choose soley based on comfort.  Ex: "The Cloud Luxe is just too soft.  It makes the small of my back sink in too much.  The Cloud Supreme supports my back much better.  It also saves me $1,000 and has the same quality and warranty" whereas an innerspring customer deals with....  "I like the way this cheaper mattress feels more, but I also understand that it has less coils and cushion and will break down faster, and also carries a shorter warranty".  Once again, know your stuff as well as you want to, but try to focus more on comfort when shopping tempur/icomfort.