Mattress Forum

Sorry to hear about your reaction to latex.

http://www.latexallergyresources.org/resourcemanual/section4/latex_allergy_everyone.cfm

If I were you, I would explain the situation to the store and to the manufacturer and see whether either one of them will take it back. You didn't mention which brand you bought, but with the description you've given, I'd assume they are selling it as a "healthy" brand of bed. This could be addressed under a theory of implied warranty if the store or manufacturer does not make an express warranty that the product is suited for the purpose for which it was sold. The manufacturer in particular may have insurance coverage to cover liability claims for triggering latex allergies, or they should if they don't. If neither company is willing to work with you to resolve this problem, then you could probably find an attorney willing to help you get the purchase money back and the costs of having the mattress removed from your environment. This could be handled in small claims court if you get an attorney experienced with latex allergy claims, or possibly resolved through an out-of-court settlement with the manufacturer and/or the store.

Good luck with it. It is important for people to learn about these hidden risks of latex and other substances that can indeed pose serious health problems for some individuals. Thank you for sharing your experience with this forum.

This is very interesting given all the online hype about the safety of natural rubber latex, and the stores promoting them as 'free of offgassing' 'safe and healthy' etc.  Contractor, can you point me in the direction of more information on the lack of stability of natural latex rubber and the toxicity of its chemical components?  

Thanks.  JanisB

Good resource.  Thanks.  They point out that people with Type IV sensitivity reactions -- which it probably what I have -- are often sensitive to a long list of chemicals used in the processing of latex.  The estimate on that site was 7-14% of the population!  If this is indeed the case, then companies should not promote 100% natural rubber latex as a product that is safe for the environment, free of offgassing, and healthy for people.

I got the bed from designsleep.com, located about 2 hours from me.

JanisB
 

" Janis,

It seems that the "expanded foam" mattresses, latex or 
otherwise, has caught on based on a larger number of 
companies selling them. 

I've consulted with a few clients and we have found that 
sometimes - not always, but often - the various pieces which 
make up the complete unit (they are not one-piece) are 
manufactured in different companies in different countries then 
some of the parts (not all) "certified" in yet a different country with 
little traceable between them. 

The confusion between retailer, wholesaler, importer, exporter, 
and manufacturer is even more confusing making any sort of 
information or remedy difficult if not impossible.

Sometimes the "new" mattress is composed of pieces from 
product returned because of owner reactivity. We found reports 
of required pesticide treatment before shipping to the US, little 
environmental control during shipment (especially on boats), and 
even admissions of spilling pesticides directly onto the foam 
rubber and other components.

These incidents seem to be very rare, but when they occur are 
catastrophic. The effects reported seem to be a combination of 
chemical and physical properties which are especially tenacious, 
usually driving people from their homes and unable to return or 
tolerate contents. "

This same person suggested that myessentia.com had a safe mattress.  Anyone have experience with them?

That is one reason I want to move towards wool. The last mattress I bought, back in the age of dinosaurs, was before the new frlame retardant laws were passed. Yeah, those were the good old days, when innerspring mattresses lasted, they weren't wrapped in loads of foam that breaks down in a year or two, and they weren't enveloped in toxic chemicals.

Anyway, I suggest you might want to check with the seller as to what flame retardant was used, if you don't know, if you aren't able to pinpoint thte source of your irritation, so that hopefully you can avoid it in any future purchase.

I too would be interested in more from Contractor about what he is referring to.

We have to keep our eyes open these days, do we not?

The real kicker with bad mattresses is how difficult it is to find out if they will work for you, how hard it is to return or replace them, how huge they are to move and how hard they are hard to dispose of, plus the significant expense involved.

That's why this forum is really making me think we need a consumer protection law that REQUIRES mattress manufacturers to be much more explicit about EXACTLY what is used in their mattresses, and how they are constructed.

Essentia makes a latex based mattress as well...if someone is saying that latex is toxic and then recommends a latex bed (that involves more ingredients and complex processing than other companies) it seems fishy.  If this is a chemical reaction to the latex and not allergy based then you probably want to sleep on an all wool mattress or an organic innerspring mattress without foam of any kind.  I am very curious about how your latex allergy tests come out...I have never heard of someone buying a natural latex mattress and having a chemical issue...allergy yes.  You mentioned Savvy Rest but you did not specifically mention that you purchased a Savvy Rest...which brand of mattress did you purchase?

Edit: Sorry I did not see before that you mentioned designsleep.com as the company you purchased from.  

This link is specifically talking about the chemicals used in processing latex gloves, not natural latex foam rubber (although there are some similarities), but the % of people that potentially can be affected should be a whole order of magnitude lower.  I would reference test results from companies like Eco Institut as proof enough that there are high quality natural foam rubbers that do not offgas.  

Great to hear from you, Budgy, on this point! Could you please explain a little more fully for us novices why you think the affected percentage of people would be a whole order of magnitude lower with latex mattresses than latex gloves?

Thanks!

The real natural rubber allergy is when people develop breathing problems, and potential anaphylactic conditions.  This sounds like what 'might' be happening to the OP...this is not because of chemicals in the latex, or off-gassing, this is because of the protein itself.  Not saying it isn't bad but we need to be factual about what may be causing the issue...life isn't fair :( 

"Type I (Immediate) Hypersensitivity. This is an IgE antibody mediated reaction to some of the protein antigen inherent in the latex. These reactions typically cause urticaria, angioedema, rhinitis, conjunctivitis, bronchospasm, asthma and, rarely, anaphylaxis. Affected persons must eliminate latex exposure altogether.(6) Although the amount of exposure needed to cause sensitization or symptoms is not known, exposures at even very low levels can trigger allergic reactions in some sensitized individuals. A common factor in anaphylactic episodes is exposure of mucosal tissues to latex--a situation inherent in dentistry.(7) The potential for a life-threatening anaphylactic reaction underscores the importance of recognizing Type I immediate reactions. "

On the chart this is listed as less than 1% of general population.  

The chart says 7~18% of general population can react to type IV 'sensitivities' which is caused by the chemicals used in processing gloves. Continued exposure to this overtime has the potential of leading to a real rubber allergy particularly when powdered gloves are being used as they increase sensitivity overtime.

"Type IV (Delayed) Hypersensitivity. Allergic Contact (Chemical Sensitivity) Dermatitis results from exposure to chemicals added to latex during harvesting, processing or manufacturing. Latex glove products utilize coagulants, accelerators, antioxidants, emulsifiers, stabilizers, extenders, colorants, stiffeners, biocides, fragrances, etc.(4) These chemicals can cause skin reactions similar to those caused by poison ivy. As with poison ivy, the rash usually begins 24 to 48 hours after contact, and may progress to oozing skin blisters or may spread away from the area of skin touched by the latex. This contact urticaria may represent a transitional stage in a progression between contact dermatitis and immediate hypersensitivity. Some patients initially develop delayed-type contact dermatitis, then urticaria, and finally (months to years later) systemic immediate hypersensitivity.(5) "

Thank you, though, Budgy! Your posts are always informative and you are a tremendous asset to this forum.

We are interested in the truth here, indeed!

Apparently I have heard that the powder they give off will absorb some of the protein from the gloves which is why they recommend not using powdered gloves now. Im not even sure why they are powdered to begin with and what advantage that has.  

Thanks, Budgy!
 

Here's one snippet from a study I found on pubmed.  (journal is Ann Med. 1994 Aug;26(4):297-300.)

"Because the natural rubber of the mattresses contains latex allergens, these allergens are a potential source of sensitization and could constitute a risk, at least to allergic individuals."

Then this is one post from a chemist (she says, anyway- http://www.livingreefs.com/members/tankedchemist.html) "So... I would never buy a latex bed. Why? Because you will eventually develop an allergy to latex. Here's the thing that's odd about latex-- natural or synthetic... the longer and more frequently your skin is exposed to it, the more likely you are to develop an allergy.

Now you're going to say "but my skin doesn't touch it"... doesn't matter. Like all polymers, latex does release little bits of itself in the form of gas, constantly. The difference between the memory foam polymer and latex polymer is that you can't smell the little bitty molecules released by latex-- but that does not mean they aren't there. SO, you're still exposing yourself to latex, and IME, you can still develop an allergy later." [emphasis added and I cropped out a bit]

Then, this is from Savvy's blog, from Michael Penny I believe:

"As purity testing shows, even natural latex (and ours is as natural as it gets) is about 95% percent pure rubber. To make the sap into foam, the manufacturing process requires small amounts of sulfur as the primary vulcanization agent, and zinc oxide as an accelerator. These are both natural ingredients.

The vulcanization process also requires adding minute amounts of synthetic chemicals. Which ones? Latex manufacturers still regard that information as proprietary and realistically, that probably will not change in the short term. But we can tell you that the presence of the tiny amounts of additives necessary to turn raw sap into supple, comfortable foam is not something to fear. What’s “tiny”? Their volume is referenced in micrograms per cubic meter, which is like a fraction of a grain of sand. More importantly, as you can see in the test results, “volatile organic compounds” (“volatile” means unstable, which means they off-gas) are routinely tested for. Note the designation “ND” for the vast majority, which means: Not Detected.

If a manufacturer, salesperson or web site tells you that their latex production process uses zero chemicals, consider this Wikipedia article on vulcanization. As it states, if one tried to make natural latex without using an accelerator, the resulting product would be of poor quality." [emphasis added]

I hope some of this helps.  Let us know what your allergy results are.  I'm curious whether it's a chemical sensitivity or a latex allergy (for both your case and mine). 

Ironically I've visited design sleep also and had no problems in the store even though I was there about 2 hours and we opened up the beds, touched the latex, talked with it open, etc.  Could be something about their store ventilation though as someone else mentioned.  I lay on memory foam beds comfortably in the store even though it seems toxic to me at home.

Design sleep isn't 100% natural ingredients and they were upfront about this when I was there, but I doubt any of the other things they use are big enough to be a problem.  There was some polyester in the spring pockets, teflon-like coating in the side wall thread for FR, I think non-organic wool (could be wrong- think 'natural' but not organic), etc.  But I think you said you didn't feel well on just the latex slabs, so I guess the rest of the bed doesn't matter.

Thank you, CMQ - very informative and important information. Much appreciated!
 

Even in our OP's case (as well as any other I have heard of someone reacting to a natural latex bed) the reactions began basically straight away or within a few days type of thing (delayed hypersensitivity).  

Budgy, I know you have a lot of experience in the latex mattress market. Can you please clarify why you think lying on a latex mattress overnight every night is less exposure than wearing latex gloves? Is it because you are presuming there are materials between the latex itself and the human body (ie., mattress cover, sheets, pajamas....whatever) or some other reason? I apologize if you explained this before, but I did not pick it up.

well the covers will protect you from major/direct skin contact...but they don't completely isolate you from 'out-gassing'...but say with a powdered glove there is even .1 gram of powder, and of that .1 gram there is .1% polymer isoprene, then their is the potential release of 0.00001 grams of isoprene polymer that contains .5 percent of the actual protein that can cause a reaction, would be 0.0000001 grams of the antigen for two gloves being released either into the air where it can enter the lungs or be absorbed transdermally through the skin.  Sounds like a very small amount but the molar mass of natural rubber (polyisoprene) is 100,000 to 1,000,000 (100~1000lbs per mole), crazy range hard to calculate.  

one mole is 6.02214×1023    

So on the low end of molecular weight (100lbs) you have a normal natural rubber mattress has a mass say equal to one mole (to simplify). My calcutor cannot carry that the number of zeroes required before I even get to the power of 5 yet alone 23. We are talking insanely high numbers here which are hard for me to calculate, but also of that molecular weight there is say 0.1% antigen protein, we are talking 0.1 lbs of the whole bed or 45 grams of antigen.  Even with a total of 45 grams being inside the mattress we are talking quadrillions upon quadrillions of molecules that would have to be released....  anyway...you have to take my number with a pinch of salt and a shot of tequila because I am no scientist.  But out-gassing occurs in incredibly small quantities of mass compared to being directly absorbed from a material like say skin on skin contact you have with gloves.  This is why I am trying to find something that can actually quanitify and objectify these kinds of exposures and say how much of a risk is it really.  

The other thing with gaseous exposure compared to direct is that diffusion pretty much guarantees in a relatively well ventilated place you will probably not even absorb a significant percentage of the antigens released into the air.

Sorry about your troubles but for now, I would sell the bed and not get yourself sicker.

http://www.peopleforcleanbeds.org/People-Sick.htm

First, it is my impression that the reason latex gloves are sometimes "powdered" is to make them smoother to get in and out of. I use latex gloves to shower with due to allergies to soaps and shampoos and believe me sometimes getting in and out of them can be difficult due to friction. So I think the powder is to reduce friction.

The OP mentioned putting the latex mattress out in the sun to get rid of the off-gassing or whatever. I wanted to mention that direct sun is very bad for latex, particularly synthetic latex, but I think all latex. It dries it out and when it gets dry enough it can turn to powder. If you go to mattress stores where they have Stearns and Foster latex mattresses on display sometimes you'll find a book next to their high-end models with latex that has latex samples in it. Many stores leave these near windows and the latex begins to disintegrate and you will find latex powder in there (not to be confused with the powder they put on latex gloves; I'm talking here about latex turning into powder from the sun and heat).

I am not sure but I am guessing that anti-dust mite covers like you get at nationalallergy.com *might* keep the allergens - if any - in latex mattresses from bothering the person sleeping on it. These covers are designed to keep out dust mites and/or trap them inside the cover, so maybe it might also keep out the latex "dust" or whatever... If it is indeed off-gassing that is the problem, they may well not keep the gas from escaping. But it might be worth a try. I have used these to control dust mites. The more expensive ones are softer and more cloth-like than the cheaper ones. The cheaper ones tend to feel and sound plastic-y.

I have been waking up with watery eyes every morning for a couple years now. It is possible - though I kind of doubt it - that this could be from the latex I sleep on. The reason I don't think it is, is because I slept on latex and memory foam for many months without getting watery eyes like this; and also our bedroom is prone to a lot of dust and pollen coming in from the window. So I think it's more likely the dust and pollen is what is causing my watery eyes. (I have been tested and shown to be allergic to dust and pollen). But sometimes I do wonder if it might be possible that the latex might be causing my watery eyes. Unfortunately the latex layers in my DIY "mattress" give me the best sleep I've had in years, so I am reluctant to get rid of it if all it causes is watery eyes. (I have been asthmatic all my life and my asthma and allergies have actually been better the past couple years so I am doubtful that any allergan is coming from the latex or else I'd likely be having more, not less, asthma.)

Does anyone know if there are ways to get mattresses tested to see what is in them that could cause these kinds of reactions. I've also had a latex bed in the past that I did not have any type of reaction to so don't think I have an allergy to it. I almost feel like this bed has some sort of very fine particulate matter that is being released from it since the allergy cover I bought blocks particles less than 2.8 microns and I've layered on top of the allergy cover two older covers (from a smaller mattress I had) to try to further block whatever it is.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. 

I expect that even all natural latex is not alike.  Depending on who made it and how it was made, it may have different residual chemicals in the mattress.  Are you sure it's not the mattress enclosure that's the problem?

And "all natural" latex mattresses are not 100% chemical free.  Chemicals are used in processing the latex.  I believe that they are then washed out by additional washing processes using water.  I believe that the better "all natural" latex is about 95% latex.

Do you know the manufacturer of the latex in the mattress you purchased?