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Hi. Got a Simmons BackGuard last week after returning an NXG 250 Firm which turned out to be both too soft and too hard at the same time (butt sank too much, back was pulling while shoulders were in pain and arms went numb). The BackGuard has zones (thinner coils under hips and shoulders and very firm for lumbar support) that I can distinguished with my ribs when I lay on my side after a minute or so (I weigh 250 lbs). Every morning, I wake up in pain (shoulders, ribs, back) so I'm looking for a topper but don't want to go overbaord to avoid making it too soft. Budget is limited so I'm leaning toward Foambymail latex topper. Don't know if I should go for 20 or 32 ILD. Any advice? Also, does anybody know how bad will their topper smell? How long before it dissipates? This message was modified Dec 7, 2010 by ZZZZ
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Simmons seems to have it backwards... Most of your body weight is in your lower torso area. Because of this your hips (on your side) or your rear end (on your back) will tend to sink in more because of that weight. Most zoned support systems (either coils or foam zoning) will usually put MORE support there to stop them from sinking in too far and putting your spine out of alignment. Simmons puts less support there so your hips or rear end would sink in more and the waist or lumbar area where the greater support is in this zoning scheme would be supporting more of your weight. This certainly isn't "normal" for most body weight distributions and even if your spine is in alignment this way, the small of your back (lumbar area) could be supporting too much weight. This is compounded by your weight and the guage of the backcare coils which are relatively thin and would make this effect even worse. On the other hand, most people's shoulders have less weight than the hips but they are wider than the hips. They need to sink in more relative to the hips (especially with side sleeping). Zoning systems should reflect this by having a shoulder zone softer than the hips. Basically multi zoning systems (more than 2 or 3) are more about marketing than real world performance since if there is a need for zoning in a typical mattress it is to have a firmer hip area relative to the shoulders. This could be accomplished by having a firmer hip area (typical 3 zone with a firmer zone in the middle which is most commonly what you see) or a softer shoulder area (2 zone which you rarely see). Both ways you would get closer to alignment based on the body makeup of most people. If the zones are out or whack, not different enough, or reversed, then the comfort layers or a topper won't change the underlying "flaw". Hips typically need a soft comfort layer to distribute pressure since they are bearing more weight on the support layers. This softer comfort layer will also offer some support to the small of the back in a correct construction. In other words the comfort layers need to allow enough sinking in of the hips that there is not a "gap" between the mattress and the more "recessed" waist or lumbar area. I really don't understand why Simmons does this ... it's truly wierd and different from other manufacturers ... and it's no wonder with your weight distribution that it's causing "issues". Phoenix This message was modified Nov 15, 2010 by Phoenix
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If I was in your shoes ... and bearing in mind that trying this won't fix the underlying issue ... I would try a firmer piece of foam under your hips of at least 2" and softer foam in your shoulder area. Both the latex you have and the egg crate would qualify as "soft". You could experiment with this by buying a firmer piece of 2" poly (would cost a lot less to experiment) and cutting it above your hips (around your belly button). This would help to "keep your hips up". Then you could use the eggcrate (either by itself if it is already 2" or doubled if it is 1") from the cut point to the top of your mattress. I wouldn't cut or use the latex at this point. What you would be doing in a way is using the comfort layers to do what the support layers should be doing because the support layers are doing what the comfort layers should be doing. I would use as firm an ILD in the hip poly area as you believe would not cause pressure issues. Buying only 1" of firmer poly and doubling it wouldn't work because the "cut point" would be more than half of the length of the mattress. I realize this is not ideal but for the cost of a fairly inexpensive 2" poly layer you could get a sense if this would help. 3" would probably be better but you could always add it and/or change material if you had a clear sense that this would help you. This is one of those cases where it would probably be a good thing to "diminish" the effect of the underlying support system by adding thicker layers. Phoenix This message was modified Nov 15, 2010 by Phoenix
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I should also add for the sake of completeness that this zoning scheme may have some value in certain circumstances. If a side sleeper was much lighter and had much wider hips than waist and liked a firm feeling mattress with thinner comfort layers (didn't like the feeling of sinking in), they may need a support system that allows their hips to sink in enough to create spinal alignment and allow a thinner comfort layer to distribute pressure better. I don't think from what you've posted that you "qualify" for this scenario :) Phoenix |
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ZZZZ wrote: Hi. Got a Simmons BackGuard last week after returning an NXG 250 Firm which turned out to be both too soft and too hard at the same time (butt sank too much, back was pulling while shoulders were in pain and arms went numb). The BackGuard has zones (thinner coils under hips and shoulders and very firm for lumbar support) that I can distinguished with my ribs when I lay on my side after a minute or so (I weigh 250 lbs). Every morning, I wake up in pain (shoulders, ribs, back) so I'm looking for a topper but don't want to go overbaord to avoid making it too soft. Budget is limited so I'm leaning toward Foambymail latex topper. Don't know if I should go for 20 or 32 ILD. Any advice?
Also, does anybody know how bad will their topper smell? How long before it dissipates? |
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I know the 250 is soft but yet, it was cutting the circulation in my arms after 5 minutes, every time. That's why I said it was both too soft and too hard at the same time, no give at all at the shoulders. The BackGuard I got is a tight top, considered firm but not too firm. |
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Followed Pheonix advice last night and added a 2.5 inches piece of quality foam to add support in the middle of the bed. Change was immediate as I even had to change from a thin to a thicker pillow to be able to sleep on my side. I didn't change the setup for shoulders but I should have had since arms went numb all night long and my neck is a little sore. Lower back pain is still present, but has improved by at least 60% I'd say. We'll see if a second night of sleep continues on this trend. I'll try to find a thinner and softer foam for my shoulders. The bed now has a big hump on my side when nobody lies in it but surely enough, when I'm in it, it feels flat! I realize that this could only be a temporary solution. A friend of mine who lives too far to go visit and try his mattress says he purchased the Hampton Inn set a few months ago and that he's extremely happy with it, even though he and his wife are on the heavy side. It's a Serta Tranquility Nights, plush tight top, two-sided mattress. I remember getting a good night sleep myself when we stayed at a Hampton Inn last year. I don't know if it would last a long time but if anyone has any opinion on it, I'd like to hear it. |
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ZZZZ wrote: It's a Serta Tranquility Nights, plush tight top, two-sided mattress. I remember getting a good night sleep myself when we stayed at a Hampton Inn last year. I don't know if it would last a long time but if anyone has any opinion on it, I'd like to hear it. When I stayed at a Hampton Inn a couple of years ago, the first night was heaven and I thought I had found my bed. It was a Serta with a thin pillowtop. Second night, not so great as I woke up with mild lower back pain in the a.m.. After the third night, when I couldn't touch my toes in the morning because my back was so stiff, I was glad we had stayed there three nights because I would have made an incorrect conclusion after only the first night. Lesson to be learned: no matter how comfortable a bed feels in the store, or after one night, you don't know for sure until multiple sleeps. |
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Mattress comfort is so subjective and proper support can be so individual that it's a little risky to go with what someone else finds works for them. Are you able to get a refund and "start over" or are you limited to an exchange from the store you bought your mattress? Either way I would try to use your experiences so far to develop an idea of the kind of construction and some of the different qualities you would need in a mattress so you had a "plan of action" about what to do next. Your experience last night is encouraging because it at least gives some real clues about the direction you may need to go. Phoenix I just reread my earlier post and just to be clear ... the idea was to have 2" of firmer foam from the foot of your bed to just past your belly button and then 2" of softer foam from there to the head of your bed. This way you would still have an even top of your mattress. What you did though was a good idea and in the same "direction". It seemed to give a clear indication that this is the direction to go if you either choose to or have to keep the mattress. This message was modified Nov 17, 2010 by Phoenix
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Been shopping for a few days and intend to stick with a tight top, firm to mid-firm model. Would have loved an old fashioned two-sided but I only found cheap ones that aren't firm enough, more intended for a kid. Too bad. So far, I found those two (also available with different variations from stores to stores): http://www.sleepcountry.ca/mattress-accessories/mattresses/sub_categories/pocket_coil/products/4 http://www.sleepcountry.ca/mattress-accessories/mattresses/sub_categories/innerspring/products/1 They'd be both on the firm side to start with but I think they could become comfortable with the latex topper. I have two questions. For someone as heavy as me, is it better to go with pocket coils or interlocked springs? Obviously, the Simmons seems to transfer less motion, which is a plus but I wonder if the Sealy might last longer and sag less, while being able to distribute the weight more evenly than the individual coils. Also, different stores have different variations of the same models, without the center 1/3 Lumbar Support featured as an exclusivity in the Sleep Country models (same gage of coils for the whole bed but the 1/3 center of the mattress is reinforced instead of just two zones - lumbar and thighs, like on the BackGuard. The Simmons has slightly denser padding in the middle while the Sealy has its center reinforced with extra threading, or so I'm told. Sounds like a good idea for someone who is overweight but now I'm weary of zones altogether. Would you go with the stronger center or the even surface? Prices are similar. |
| IMHO, pocket coils are better for people that have either broad shoulders or broad hips, as those areas are allowed more give with the pocket coil. A more evenly proportioned, higher weight individual would probably do better on a non-pocket coil. |