Mattress Forum

Thanks for your reply, DianeK.  I share the same impression as you regarding both brand with my brief visit to a retailer over the weekend.  They have on the floor Hemsley and Sherbourne from Hypos Castle series, The Signatory, Regal Supreme and Baronet Supreme from Vi-Spring.  Having able to try them side-by-side, I prefers the Vi-Spring over the Hypnos.  I don't have a limitless budget but I see this as an investment for a long term.  I truly believe in getting the best I can afford will save me time and money in a long run.  If the price truly reflects the quality and durabilty of the mattress, I am willing to stretch my budget.  But I can hardly find any reviews from owner for either brand.

I thought Green Sleep made latex mattress only?

Shifman is on my list but they don't have any dealer here in Vancouver, BC.

Best of luck!

Sincerely, Bed Snob

Ammonia is added to most latex that is shipped long distances to prevent vulcanization.  It is not added to make the product softer.  GreenSleep processes their latex without the use of ammonia as whatever they harvest in the morning is turned into rubber cores later the same day the need for ammonia as a stabilizing agent is simply not required...its not like when rubber is processed in the US or in Europe there is a large amount of aqueous ammonia added into the rubber during shipping.  Only a  small amount of ash is added to turn the product into a foam.  The end result for them is about 97% natural rubber content and some sulfur ash residual (also natural).  If you literally mean it isn't natural if it doesn't occur in nature in the shape of a mattress then nothing is truly natural.  On the poly content....yes most "latex" beds use polyurethane in the construction...not all...but it is never actually part of the latex foam itself...these are two completely different materials, typically this is S brand practice to still use large amounts of polyfoam in the construction.  All that being said, Hastens and Vi-Spring make a great truly natural product if you do like a softer feel.  I would agree that Hypnos mattresses are all typically very firm. GreenSleep does not make their beds the same way as Vi-Spring or Hastens, however they do produce some of the purest mattresses in the world and have the certifications to back it up.  Pro's and con's to both types of beds in reality. 

Unfortunately, no one carries Hastens in my city.  The closest retailer would be south of the border, 200km away in Seattle, WA.  Also, if I am not mistaken, Hastens are way more expensive than the lower end Vi-Spring I am considering.

Take care!

Bed Snob

Compared to something like a Vi-Spring or Hastens there are pro's and con's.  Realistically the only part of the Green Sleep pocket coil beds that really takes any kind of initial body indentation is the top most sheeps wool layer.  Being that a Vi-Spring or Hastens is upholstered exclusively with animal and vegetable fibres...I could see them taking more of a body set...this may or may not bug people, I imagine for the amount of coin spent on them, it does bother a myriad of people.  Natural rubber does hold its shape well.  The good thing with the Green Sleep pocket coil beds is that after say 15~25 years you can simply replace the pillowtop with a new one, the spring core and base system should more or less last a lifetime.  So its actually incredibly cost effective despite them not being cheap mattresses anyway. 

Personally I think Vi-Sping makes the best coil systems around, even better than a Hastens, I am speaking just interms of how well the coils themselves would contour to shape, not from a durability standpoint.  All 3 of these brands have remarkably durable spring systems...its the upholstery and the removable pillowtop that I believe would make a Green Sleep ultimately more durable.  Also if someone doesn't want an incredibly soft mattress a lot of people will find the Green Sleep to be just as comfortable.

The pro's to a Vi-Spring or Hastens is that they will be a notch better on the breathability side of things...hard to say how much...I would assume with no foam whatsoever they will ultimately be a slight improvement in this category however I caution that regardless of whether you buy a $5000 Green Sleep, a $7000 Vi-Spring, a $10,000 Hastens or a $30K-$50K Vispring or Hastens, every single one of these beds uses sheeps wool in the uppermost layering which is where 95% of your bodies humidity is going to be dealt with. 

Getting back to the whole rubber being natural thing....it is technically natural if the vulcanizing agents that are used are natural...I wouldn't call it organic, but the term natural is entirely accurate in some cases.  The organic components of a Green Sleep mattress are the wool and the cotton (just like every other certified organic mattress).  For someone who is really concerned about inert sulfur ash being way down in the mattress core they should also be very concerned about whether there are heavy metals used in dyeing the cotton covering's or if the cotton was grown non-organically seeing as how basically every single pesticide in the world is a known carcinogenic material and non-organic cotton growth directly kills thousands of people every year.  I don't know what kind of certifications Hastens has for these materials...I know that Vi-Spring uses wood pulp fibre for the top of some mattresses which though incredibly luxurious is technically a form of rayon and has been broken down chemically in order to be spun into fabric.  If someone really knows everything...I am always open to conversation about what truly constitutes "natural"...perhaps there isn't a bed out there that even is.  Sullfur ash is also present in steel before refining much in the same way that it is used in vulcanizing rubber (as well as zinc oxide), both materials after being processed have most of this removed...but they can never remove ALL of it.

All that being said...gotta go with what you find to be most comfortable and if it is justifiable to you for the cost.  I personally like the value that Green Sleep offers, I truly believe in the high end of things they have the best value.  And like other truly high end brands they use functional boxsprings to help with comfort and support, all of these beds are more than mattresses, they are functional sleep systems and to a degree works of art. 

 Budgy, I am not totally sure what you mean by this.  Are you talking about permanent body indentations?

I think the idea of the replacable top level is an interesting one for the Green Sleep pocketed coil mattress.  Can you get the top level in different levels of firmness?

Royal-Pedic also has a top comfort level that can be added/replaced on their mattresses.  Of course, one could always make one as well by putting latex / wool into something like the St. Geneve wool featherbed protector.

Speaking of the heavy metals / pesticides in the cotton.  Does that come out when washed?  Otherwise, you have to worry about clothes, sheets, blankets, pillows, etc. and all of furniture you come into contact with.   Not too mention what you absorb through food, drink, the air.  The question is how much of a risk does all of this pose?  I tend to not take it too seriously, because I figure I am probably being bombarded with all kinds of things if I live in the world today.  I guess every bit can help a little though.

To be fair the Hastens beds also have removable pillowtops that can be replaced, however the mattress core where the innerspring system(s) reside is also heavily upholstered.  In the Green Sleep beds, the coil core is quite literally just steel wrapped in rubberized coconut coir, that stuff is STRONG.  Basically the pillowtop is the only wear and tear component and its made primarily out of rubber and then some sheeps wool on top, I would think they get a small body indentation fairly early on from a little bit of wool compaction, but its pretty minor.  The pillowtop you replace perhaps 15~20 years down the road... Hastens recommends you replace their pillowtops every 8 years or so...which to some might be worth it if affordable. 

Yes Green Sleep makes different pillowtops, they use the same coil core and base system for all their pocket coil mattresses.  They also make a bonnell coil without a removable top at a great price, perfect for those that like a firmer feel with a lot of bouyancy.

Basically they make different thicknesses of tops to vary the comfort.  I think its important for me to say that these beds are not designed to feel as soft as something like a Hastens or Vi-Spring...this is a limitation of using the purest most elastic rubber available.  There is a limit on how soft you can make everything.  The most expensive bed comes with a customizable pillowtop that you have some interchangeable rubber layers inside, you can set up each side of the pillowtop firm, medium, or soft.

The Green Sleep I see comes with a foundation and not a box spring?  Is that true of all of their coil mattresses?  That seems like it might be a disadvantage?

Are the Green Sleep coils themselves reasonably body conforming or are they pretty stiff?

How would you compare the spring system on the Vi-spring vs. Royal-Pedic?

It's definitely a functional base system, dowels and slats placed on natural rubber (that is encased in organic cotton).  I am just hesitant to call it a boxspring as there is no traditional coil spring, but it does contribute to the same bottemless feeling that a proper coil mattress should have. 

As far as the coil system goes I would say its reasonably conforming, more so than any offset or bonnell coil.  The Bonnell coil in the Green Sleep beds would be more comparable to the Offset used in a Royal Pedic.  Yet because of the finer gauge steel and higher spring count used in a Vi-Spring or Hastens bed they will be more able to conform to body shape...I think particularly the Vi-Spring coils is pretty amazing how they have to honeycomb nest everything and tie it by hand.  Thats a labour intensive job to be sure. 

I only see the latex mattress on the Green Sleep website, so they are a bit confusing. 

Looks like Vi-spring is only in Chicago at this point. 

Forgetting the comfort layers for a moment, it sounds like you are saying that the Green Sleep coil system and foundation might provide a more comforming and comfortable base level than the Royal-Pedic? I assume both would last a long time.

My recommendations for a mattress with no consideration given to cost and unlimited budget assumed:

If someone likes anything firm to medium soft, rubber and or rubber with a quality spring core is simply the most practical. Holds its shape better, still very breathable.  The problem with really low ILD talalay latex's is that they tend to dish out and people will still hammock in bed, I have experienced this first hand on the softest latex bed Natura makes, it might work well for some, but it may not be good for other peoples posture.  This mattress I am speaking of had some 14" of latex, 6" firm dunlop core, 8" of progressively softer layers on top. 

If someone absolutely needs or desires an incredibly soft mattress and needs good posture and alignment, then their chances of acheiving both are better with a Hastens or a Vi-Spring.  The really fine gauge of wire allows people to sink into the coil core more which is a more precise type of contouring than ANY variety of foam will acheive, they will also be marginally more breathable.  The downside is that these beds do have a fair bit of settling of the materials. 

In my immediate neck of the woods there is no one selling Hastens, there is one Vi-Spring dealer and a couple Hypnos dealers.  And then there is myself carrying Green Sleep.  Based on the criteria I outlined above I wish I carried Vi-Spring or Hastens because there is the odd customer (id say 1 or 2 out of 10) that tries a Green Sleep, likes the concept, but doesn't quite find it soft enough.  This is going to be a little less frequent in the future because some of their new models are getting a little bit softer feeling to them.  On the flip side of the coin, I have convinced quite a few people that for them a Green Sleep was a better match for them than a Vi-Spring or Hypnos.  One of these couples simply tried a Vi-Spring and didn't like how soft it was. Another couple loved how soft the initial feeling of the Vi-Spring was (I believe it was the Regal Supreme) but they were really worried about the compression of all that fibre, they have given me an update recently and they are still very happy with their Green Sleep.  Because Hypnos has been around in my area longer, quite a few of these people are actually previous Hypnos owners that found the beds too hard and within several years of ownership were left with a bitter taste in their mouth (the Hypnos beds are all quite firm).   The delivery company I deal with is ran by a husband and wife team...they got a Hypnos bed in their guest room free of charge as the customer that ordered a Green Sleep had no desire for it anymore.  There are no Royal Pedic dealers near me (they approached me to see if we would sell it, and I would if I only had more room to do so).  So I have no real experience comparing a Green Sleep to say a Royal Pedic, to get any feedback on the comfort difference from multiple people.

Vi-spring is not anywhere close to where I live, and does not have a seperate top layer (from I know).  Might be too expensive as well.  Hastens is at least nearby, and the very top layer might have some flexibility.  A lot of built in fibre though and probably the most expensive option (although I don't know what a Vi-spring costs).   Still, I will probably at least try a Hastens at some point to see what I might be missing.  Maybe I can find a hotel that uses them.

Royal-Pedic is nearby.  They have a lot of cotton built into their basic model, so not sure how that will hold up over time.  Still this might be a decent option.

Green Sleep seems to have the least fibre, as you say.  I viewed it not having the traditional high quality box spring as a possible negative, but sounds like it is better than I thought.   I like the pocketed coil concept as more conforming, but not sure if fatigue on the most used coils would reduce the longevity.

I have been told that they don't sell it without the pillow top layer, and I am not sure if theirs would work for me (if it is essentially dunlop).   Still, I could not use it at all or possibly augment it with something.  I think they have some retailers in
California, but not sure how close.

I am not worried about using softer talalay, as long as it can be replaced.  That will work better for me than dunlop.

Yes, they are nearby.  How is their pricing compared to Hastens?

 

Comparable.  What I liked about them compared to Hastens was (1) a latex topper doesn't need to be massaged, (2) I think I reacted badly to horsehair the one night I slept on a Hastens.

I fell dead asleep for over an hour in the Conneticut showroom on a Carpe Diem, and as you know from my posts here, I haven't had a lot of success with latex yet their latex topper was just fine - maybe something to do with the spring system underneath??.

I did extensive research on others ( hastens, Vi spring, natura, green sleep ) 

This is a well made product and has Royal warrants from the Queen to prove it ! 

we love ours !