Mattress Forum

I'm sorry that you had a bad experience.  But I don't think your experience is unique.  There are many complaints all over the 'Net and from actual live people I have talked to that what they had delivered to their homes was NOT like the mattress set they tried in the store(s), even though the bar code says it's the same thing.   With all of the cost-cutting and the zero-inventory / just-in-time stuff manufacturers are doing, I suspect that they buy from a variety of suppliers, and they constantly put pressure on them to reduce the cost, and manufacturers everywhere are making cost-cutting decisions that might possibly result in some wide variances in product quality or characteristics.  Garbage in = garbage out, and if major companies are buying from a variety of suppliers on low bid, then I don't find it difficlut to imagine that some mattresses or cars or refrigerators have different quirks and different service lives than others of the exact same model number and bar code.  A cash flow problem may make them switch temporarily from Brand A fantastic foam, to their Brand B or C suppllier, if money is a little tight and they think that the product quality won't suffer too much, or the customer either won't notice or won't pitch a fit about it.

That is exactly why my next mattress will not be a major label like any "S" brand, or Restonic, or Laura Ashley or any of the rest of that low budget mass produced "carp."   I want PREDICTABLE quality and performance from the mattress that I buy.    DO ANY OF YOU MAJOR MANUFACTURING BONEHEADS EVER READ THIS BOARD!    THAT'S RIGHT:   YOU ARE NOT GETTING MY BUSINESS.

Sorry for the hikack.   If I were you, I'd take the loss and return the thing.  There are far too many complaints about "not as demo-ed" or "it now has changed consistency and is a POS" after only 30 to 120 days.

I have worked in manufacturing, in chemical process and heavy industry.   I know the seamy underbelly of it really, really, well.   Customers put downward price pressure on us, we put it on the supplires, everyone bumps down the chain, trying to get someting for nothing.    And sometimes, the product we turn out is:   JUNK.

The good news is that you have come to the right place to try to find a solution, because a lot of us here have tried about everything.  The bad news you already know, how difficult it is to find a good mattress when the industry does everything to hide what is inside, and that it is a very personal choice based on needs, weight.. back or side, lumbar problems, etc.

Before I get lenthy, many folks have made a too hard bed perferct or acceptable with just one inch of latex topper.  In fact, not long ago someone posted about making a Stearns and Foster Firm perfect with a one inch topper. Search 1" latex topper, S&F, Stearns and Foster... etc. to find it.

I have posted several times about one inch latex toppers, having tried a 20 ILD "soft" from www.foambymail.com and a 14 ILD "softest anywhere" from www.Sleeplikeabear.com.

Either might turn the firmer SF that you might swap for into a perfect bed.   The 14 a noticeable bit softer than the 20... and almost double the price.  FBM product had a couple of glue in repairs that dont' affect performance, the SLAB product was perfect.  My body can feel the difference from 14 to 20... but not the quality or price.

The problem we all face is that you just don't know what will work long term until you try it.  I have been through 20 mattresses from dealers that "felt fine in the showroom"  and killed my back when I slept on them for one night or more.  And at least 100 combinations of toppers of memory foam, latex, and now turning to "conventional" ;polyurethane foam from www.foamdistributing.com (also foamfactory Inc that owns foambymail.com)

I am 170 lb 60 year old male, lower back pain, back and side sleeper and am chasing the same solution.  I can't stand the heat of mem foam, it doesn't support the lower back, etc.

Latex is cooler, can improve a firm bed and turn it into something you can sleep on, but you have to fumble through the different topper choices.  www.overstock.com has a vast offering of reasonable toppers.

Back to your situation.  Can you return for a refund less shipping restocking?  How much is the upgrade to the firmer higher grade Stearns?  Here's why it matters:  many of us are using a cheap firm bed basically as a set of springs and building our own "comfort layer" of 1-3 inches of "something" on top, be it latex, memory foam, or conventional foam.  AFter $6000 worth of mattresses, I am "working with" a Serta Perfect Sleeper Auburn Firm... picked up at Sears for $450 and tied on the roof of my car to save $69 delivery fee.  It's easy.

Using an expensive S&F for that is a waste,  Serta has interlinked coils, which many have stated are more supportive for lower back problems (you and me.)

The Stearns you (and I) bought is a pocketed coil model like Simmons.  Isolation is good, form fitting is good, but not for lower back.

So if you must swap, do research for continuous coil models offered, and swap for one of those, and plan to try some toppers of varying thicknesses and materials.  You can buy twin sizes while you are experimenting.... then buy another one, cut them to each cover half if you are lucky enough to hit it right first time around.

Both suppliers mentioned will take returns with shipping and restocking fees.

Must run, but good luck and I will check back.

shovel99

These are the posters who fixed a S&F with 1 inch topper:

http://www.whatsthebest-mattress.com/forum/sf-1-talalay-love-it/13919-0-1.html

The mattresses I have really liked, over the years, are oldies.  One is a '60s White Dove (they are in Cleveland) that is probably built on the Holland springs, and it also has a coil box spring.  My parents had it, and they still use it.  The twin bed I had as a kid had belonged to an adult earlier, and it was positively the hardest mattress I have ever slept on, and I loved it.    The one that I sleep on now is an '80s Imperial tight cover full size that I bought in Nitro, WV (not far from Huntington) brand new for $125 for the set, new but a discontinued model, in the late '80s.  I think it's a Bonnell, and is probably one of their hotel models of that era.   It was on a guest bed until my husband and I split, and I've used it 5 years since and don't have any complaint except I want a queen size now.   I wrote another post about what models I have tried recently, looking for a high quality AND LONG LASTING firm mattress with little foam.   The pocket coils don't seem to have the durability but now they are offering some 13 or 13.5ga, so we maybe will see a little more consistent long-haul performance and hopefully longer service out of them.    Back in '88 or so, I bought a Restonic queen set that was widely praised and got good reviews.  It was jumk.  It sagged under my weight ,land I weighed 120# tback then.   When I married, my big husband broke a spring in it within 2 months.   We replaced it with a tight cover firm Sealy Posturepedic set for $550 in 1993, and he quickly beat that one into a pulp, too, lol.

I need to run out the door and demo a S&F 'ultra firm' in a nearby Sleepys, to see if that is a direction worth pursuing.

I could end up forfeiting $130 if I return it ($200 if they charge me a fee to pick it up). To replace with a firmer S&F ('Ultra Firm' is only available in the next higher grade of S&F) so it would cost an additional $200-$325 to make an exchange and upgrade to the Ultra Firm. Then I'd have to purchase the topper(s) which is going to add up. The cost of this S&F is already more than I wanted to pay, I'm not at all certain how to proceed. 

I believe they will replace mine with the exact same mattress for free.

My dilemma is I'll have about 24hrs to make a decision, so I'll be time pressured. I do not have to work tomorrow, so I'll be able to reflect a bit.

I'll report back this evening: thanks for all the wonderful input and support.

-Lovegasoline

Just consider:  eat the $130 restock fee, or buy from Sears.com the Serta Perfect Sleeper Rivermist firm.  Mattress and box $584.  If you don't need new box spring, will be about $120 less.  Deliver to store... drive it home.  That's what I did.

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_SP100A421S1979950602P?prdNo=87&blockNo=87&blockType=G87

Or take your $130 hit and buy somewhere local.

Very firm= no padding, or maybe even stronger coils.  Varies with price point.

Will you have another 30 days if you swap?

Inside your 30 days, buy a queen sized 1 inch 20 ILD & 32 ILD talalay latex topper for $89 + $93 delivered here: 

http://www.foambymail.com/LatexTQueen.html

With these you will be able to experiment to try just one inch of soft, two inches of soft, (fold in half to try),

one inch soft over one inch firm, two over one, two over two.

You will have been able to try most of the options of latex toppers ranging from nearly the softest at 20 ILD,

to medium firm underneath.

If you don't like any of it, you can return it all for a small return charge.  Foambymail.com now accepts returns... they

did not when I first started on this quest.

During the same period of time, you can try one inch 4 lb mem cool and 5 lb sensus toppers from overstock.com.  Cheap, but not returnable.

And in a few days, I will complete my try of high quality polyurethane foam 1 inch of "supersoft" over 1 inch of "HD 36" medium firm from www.foamdistributing.com   I am very optimistic that that combo is going to be right for me.. and maybe you with similar back situation.

The "supersoft" feels like somewhere in between the two softest latexes, but more solid feeling... less "bouncy" than latex... almost like firm memory foam (tempurpedic firm product) when you first lie on it.

Both queen sized pieces of this poly foam, and it seriously high quality look and feel and density... cost a total of $36.

The reason that most shy from Poly.. jimsocal calls it Peee Yeeeew.... is that it breaks down faster. I'll buy new ones every other month if I need to to get some sleep... although Ithat won't be the case.

If you can find a latex combo that works for you, it will be a long termer.. the stuff just lasts and lasts.

Good luck.

shovel

These oldie mattresses that I mentioned, they are mostly springs and they must be heavy duty springs like you can't afford to buy nowadays.   That Dove does not sag, after all these years.   The twin mattress, I no longer own because my dad took it to hunting camp and used it there, and he has since sold the camp. 

This evening I went to Sleepy’s, Bloomingdales, and Macys all in NYC, Manhattan (I live in Brooklyn). None of these stores had the ‘J’ level Stearns & Foster in Ultra Firm. The ‘J’ level is in S&F’s Luxury line, not their higher end coil-within-a-coil Estate line.

Macys had two mattresses that felt very good, both from their Macys branded Hotel Collection (made by S&F and variations on their Estate coil-within-a-coil series): the Classic Tight Top Ultra Firm, and Classic Tight Top Super Ultra Firm. The Super Ultra Firm may have even been a bit too hard, but a 2” topper would more than likely make it quite comfortable. These were about $1,500 delivered, mattress only (I have a platform bed). Nice, comfy, and too expensive. A topper would only make it moreso:

http://www1.macys.com/catalog/product/index.ognc?ID=421041&CategoryID=43092

I tried the S&F Estate line Ultra Firm for about $1,300+ delivered w/taxes. Felt hard, but a topper might make it very comfortable. Again, too expensive. 

Macys also had a Sealy Posturepedic Ivory Mist Tight Top Firm, which felt firm, not a perfect mattress, but decent: $600 delivered.

http://www1.macys.com/catalog/product/index.ognc?ID=453350&PseudoCat=se-xx-xx-xx.esn_results

On thing I recognize is how challenging is to make objective judgments on comfort by just laying on a mattress in the store. My sense is that it’s going to take 8hrs, in each position (back, side, stomach) to really know the effect a mattress has on the body. But I’m learning.

I applaud those who are taking their comfort into their own hands and tailoring their mattresses, and also those performing mattress surgery. Surgery however seems too severe a measure on a brand new $1K mattress.

I’ve been an active climber for almost 20 years. I try to spend several continuous months a year living outside in the mountains and desert, sleeping under the stars. This means sleeping on a couple of thin closed cell camping pads and a sleeping bag. For years my shoulders have had a torn cartilage injury and they can still be sensitive if sleeping on very hard ground on my side. Nonetheless, in the outdoors you rough it a bit and make  do, sometimes I’ll place some clothing under my sleeping bag to add to the padding.

One season not far back, a friend alerted me to a very rare find: a brand new, large, solid sheet of either 3” or 2.5” thick open cell foam, it was either full or queen size, leaning against a dumpster. I do not know the name for it, but it’s the common, regular, dull yellowish foam used everywhere (even for egg crate packaging). The foam was as new, resilient, fresh. Outdoors folks will often use this foam in a van or pickup truck as a mattress. I took it back to my sleeping area, which was solid rock. Actually, the rock sloped down a little (!) but I folded the sheet of foam in half placing the thick bend on the down-sloping side so the sleeping surface remained level. Effectively, it made a 5” – 6” solid foam mattress on top of solid rock. It was amazed: it was among the most comfortable ‘beds’ I’ve ever slept on! Recall, I’m about 5’11” @ 135lbs, very slender but also very muscular. It was supportive and comfortable, even cushy. In the outdoors, especially when traveling light, one always expects to sacrifice some comfort, but this was really a supremely comfy setup. No back pain in the morning that I can recall.

Based on this, I can easily understand how 2”- 4” of high quality topper foam, over whatever suitable foundation, can make for a totally comfortable supportive bed. I must profess that I’m not certain if I’ve ever felt latex foam. Of course, I’ve been read many accounts claiming it to be a superior product for both mattresses and toppers, and I’m curious to see what the hoopla is all about. On the other hand, a few years back a girlfriend had a memory foam mattress topper and I disliked it … it felt too ‘gummy’ and too ‘slow’.

Is there a source to test or view latex toppers and/or foam in NYC? I'd like to check into this.

******

Back to my return/exchange dilemma. Sears.com is difficult to get a clear answer from customer service. Every operator I call gives me a different policy. I do not want to have to eat the $200 to return this, but this mattress is too soft for me. I have less than 24 hrs to make a decision how to proceed. Btw, I do not have a vehicle here in NYC. WIth enough notice and persuasion, I might be able to get a friend in NJ to help me out with his pickup. 

Any ideas, please keep them coming.