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Hi All, I can't say how much I have enjoyed and learned from this forum. I am especially fascinated with the mattress surgeries and the photos. Can't wait to cut mine open. However, I have made a temporary fix of our body impressions today and I want to make sure I won't hurt the springs and I am sure you guys will have the answer... so here are the details; 4 year old Ca. King Chattam & Wells Luxe Vll (was top of the line before Mr. Kluft moved it into Spring Air line) almost 7 grand! Most comfortable bed I have ever experienced. However, we now have severe body impressions, more so on one side. I have a cutaway jpeg I will try to post, however suffice to say from the cutaway picture, it looks like a regular one-sided pocketed coil mattress with 2" of wool batting then 1" of pink foam, with a 5" topper sewn on top. The topper or Euro-top I believe they called it is filled with what looks like 2" of pink foam 1" latex I"pink convoluted foam, then 1" cotton batting then another 1" of something quilted into the top cover. I remember something about memory foam in the specs but I don't know where that is. Anyhoo, I had an egg crate foam topper hanging around, and after reading some posts here about putting carpet or other stuff under the spring mattress to fill out the body impressions I decided to give it a try. I cut the foam in half and folded each side to approximate the impressions length and width and while my dh held up each side of the mattress I laid the foam on top of the box springs. Works great, I have my old bed back. However, I was wondering if displacing the mattress springs in this way would or could damage them. I remember reading a post here about moving or bending the springs more than 30 degrees would damage them. I would hate to do that, cuz I have a mattress surgery in my future and I wouldn't want to ruin what I believe are quite good springs. What do you think? JoJo p.s. I can't find the forum instructions for posting photos...any info or links to old posts with instructions? |
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No offense intended by my post. In our house we gave up on innerspring mattresses about 22 years ago. If I had paid seven grand for a 'top of the line" innerspring core mattress from any manufacturer only four years ago and was suffering from "severe body impressions" I would pour gas and strike a match!! Sorry, I know some people cut open dying mattresses and self engineer "fixes" and I very sincerely hope your "surgery" is a success!! Any springs I have even worked with have failed over time due to weight and gravity and flexing. You don't mention actual weight of the sleepers but whether average weight or extreme weight our personal experience and the experience of our friends and family is that springs wear and compress and lose flex and fail. This is why we left innerspring technology behind 22 yrs ago and why we would avoid it today because basic designs haven't changed much over all of those years. Our advice would be to consider something new and maybe better. Latex or even Tempur-pedic come to mind since you had the financial resources to plunk down $7k for a spring based platform. If the sleepers are very weighty there are mattresses built for the very heavy. One good website is www.absolutecomfortonsale.com. There one can find mattresses designed for specific human weight levels. Best of luck - if we had a $7k mattress that was failing after four years I would be looking for a different kind of mattress. |
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I can't believe some folded egg crate foam would hurt those springs one bit. They better be some darn good springs in a 7K mattress. To veer off on the absolutecomfortonsale.com website suggestion: As a heavy person (275) I took a look at what that site was suggesting for heavy people. It was a foam bed. Hallelujah! No springs at all! Better than some sites that tell you a heavy person needs super firm layer over mega firm layer. BAH! Their suggested mattresses (2 models) that covered 250 to 400 lbs were HR foam topped with something they called a "latex-like" layer of foam. Not memory foam. While I would not buy from there unless I could get more details on density and ILD's of these foam layers, obviously they are selling foam to big people, not springs. They at least get a thumbs up for that. |
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Imjay...no offense taken. You wouldn't be recommending a different kind of bed like say, a waterbed now would you? Also, I didn't say that I paid 7K for it, that is retail and I paid a lot lot less on close-out. I have to say again that my C&W mattress is incredible...all the benefits of springs IMHO and 5" of wool, cashmere, pink foams (whatever that is) and latex. Now that I propped it up from the bottom the body impressions are gone and it is right back to where it used to be. Heaven...supporting without pressure points. No tossing or turning, neither of us. Which is why I want to make sure that I don't damage the springs with my temp fix-it. Being a one sided mattress i am afraid that the springs are hooked, sewn into a base of some sort and I might wrench them out of position or unseat them. Anyone know? You want to see some expensive beds go to Bloomingdales web site and check out the offerings. I saw where Mr. Kluft (founder and designer (I believe) of Chattam & Wells has a new line that starts at 8K and goes up to 32K! Shifmans start around 5K and go to 22! There were some cutaways of the Klufts that show all layers of latex, cashmere, wool over the springs. These days, I doubt they would use anything but latex. However, I wonder why they are so stingy with it. Now that we all know what it costs! I think the jig is up and the consumer may finally have a decent choice of either quality springs or latex cores topped by custom fit layers of latex all in a zippered case from a either one of the small manufactures some of you have gone to or one of the majors will wise up and make the switch. The first mfg who does an infomercial showing the innards of the crap you get for 1500-2,500 bucks and the inevitability of intolerable body impressions VS the new and improved way to buy/make a custom bed, that is renewable, is going to OWN the market. The visuals will sell it like no other mattress commercial/demo I have ever seen. All the mystery will be gone and that zippered case with interchangeable layers will sell everyone! wyndwaker...thanks for the link to absolutecomfortonsale.com . My plan is to eventually cut open my 5" euro top and switch out what ever it is that has got the permanent memory of my and my husbands bod in it. I think we will also take some of the other poster's suggestions to use ex-long twins for ultimate interchangeability. I think that the absolute prices are a bit high though, don't you think? Best, JoJo p.s. anyone have tips on posting photos? |
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I have done mattress surgery and you aren't hurting the springs. I personally have been the whole round-about and for MY body, spring mattresses are the absolute best feeling of all. I like the open end offset coils. Anyway, the problems with these beds aren't the springs usually(it would take many years of heavy bodies to impact them), but the foam layers. Doesn't it just make you sick that they charge so much for just layers of foam? Cheap foam...polyurethane foam primarily. That's why pillowtops go flat so quickly...not the springs. If you don't have some fluff then it is too firm. If you have a lot of fluff, it gets indentations. A real catch 22. I would doubt that your springs are any much different than any other pocketed coil. You paid for the name. As for going the route of every other bed on the site...going different won't necessarily be better. I've had a 100% Talalay latex mattress, heavy sucker, which I did not like. Too boingy. The support is not a good match for my body. I had a Select Comfort before that. Newsflash...air is HARD. That bed was no better than the padding I put on top of it. Also don't care for the type of support. Had a waterbed once, probably 20 years ago..nothing in particular wrong with it, but the support is still different than with springs. I personally like the feeling of having something push back up against my weight. Just works best for me. The hardest part is finding/making one that has the right softness on top... You might try finding a bed manufacturer that will sew a zipper around the outside to contain your layers... Kait |
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Thanks Kait, I have read a lot of your posts, I am glad you answered me cuz I know that you like coils. Do you know how to post a jpeg within messages? I would like to post a cutaway of my bed so you all can see the innards. JoJo |
| Oh I see, I have to upload the image to a hosting site...I will get to it tomorrow. J |
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This is a cutaway of my 7K Chattam & Wells Luxe Vll. FYI they don't make this bed anymore. I can't remember the actual description of the innards except to say that it was some wool, cashmere, latex and memory foam over the springs. I have to say that this is the best bed I have ever had. I had a Luxe lll (which my brother inherited) before this that was good, but nothing like this monster. I always knew that this was a great bed but never could reason the expense. So when I by chance came across it in a deep discount I jumped and I haven't been sorry. However, all that good stuff on top did develop body impressions like all the others. Putting the foam between the mattress and box springs has put it back to its original comfort level which I am very happy to report. I just want to make sure that I don't dislodge some of those springs that must be attached to the base. If there is a chance of this I will take my foam fix out and consider surgery. Any thoughts from the spring lovers in this group? <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/36974986@N05/3406743151/" title="cutaway-1 by jojodfg, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3401/3406743151_a13c0bf75d_o.jpg" width="268" height="179" alt="cutaway-1" /></a> This message was modified Apr 2, 2009 by JoJo
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JoJo wrote: I think the jig is up and the consumer may finally have a decent choice of either quality springs or latex cores topped by custom fit layers of latex all in a zippered case from a either one of the small manufactures some of you have gone to or one of the majors will wise up and make the switch. The first mfg who does an infomercial showing the innards of the crap you get for 1500-2,500 bucks and the inevitability of intolerable body impressions VS the new and improved way to buy/make a custom bed, that is renewable, is going to OWN the market. The visuals will sell it like no other mattress commercial/demo I have ever seen. All the mystery will be gone and that zippered case with interchangeable layers will sell everyone! p.s. anyone have tips on posting photos?
We can't even get Consumer Reports to do a good expose of the mattress industry and they are about the only truly unbiased raters around..... I have read CR for years on other topics and have believed and basically agreed with their conclusions for the most part.... in fact I have made many of my major purchases based on their reports. But with mattresses, their 2nd most requested topic, they say that they can't do a good evaluation of because there are too many inconsistancies, and too many models. I say BALONEY - what a cop out - we do it here on this forum and although its not scientific and its certainly not perfect, you can get a feel on here for what is true and not true. Especially if you read between the lines. Anytime you see posts on this forum repeatedly expounding the merits of one mattress over another without any criticism of itself - run from it. It's just sales talk. We all know there is no perfect mattress that will fit all; not innerspring, not memory foam, not latex and no, not even waterbeds. Each has its following, as it should be and there are certain merits to each type. Only by honest, fair and accurate accounting of our own experiences does this forum merit any real and lasting value. When it starts to only turn into a Ra-Ra place for one type of mattress to put down the other, it loses its value as an unbiased resource. I would really hate to see that, because right now, this is the only place around. Also n my opinion I think it is wrong if one type of mattress is pushed on every newcomer that makes a post. Let the newcomer read and figure it out for themselves, they are capable of making their own conclusion.
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HI BillB, Thanks for the reply. I LOVED your pictorial of your FBM bed. I also loved Cloud9's surgery 101. Between the two of you and the link to the photos of all of the cutaways of the used beds my eyes have been opened...and I "SEE THE LIGHT." No more mystery here...I have to say that the longer the majors try to keep the lid on the truth about the innards the longer a real opportunity exists for someone, either one of the small mfg. or someone like YOU to get into the business and market the new and improved bed systems to the public via infomercials. Mark my words...someone is going to make a fortune on this venture. Regarding the photo upload...I went to flickr.com and uploaded my photo then clicked on ALL SIZES and a window opens and below the photo is a PINK headline that tells you how to link to another website. Basically, you cut and paste the HTML where you want it to go. It has the code as well as the url and when you paste it where you want, your photo magically appears. VERY EASY. I had to hunt around the help section of flickr cuz it isn't logical to press the all sizes button to link your photo to another site...go figure. Anyway, BillB, you didn't say what you thought about my monster bed? |
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Jo Jo, Don't worry about ruining your springs by removing the foam--it's not attached to the coil unit. As you can see from the cutaway, it's just lying on the top. The padding layers peel apart like lunch meat in a sandwich. My mattress has an open offset coil unit inside a foam encasement and the corners of the bottom layer of foam was lightly glued to that. You have pocket coils and there doesn't appear to be any encasement. The bottom layer of batting may be wrapped around the edge support of the coil unit. A little probing and you should be able to tell whether it is also glued to the coils. If it is just leave it in place, since it may be acting like an insulator between the coils and the padding layers. In any case the body impressions probably don't penetrate to this layer anyway. Good luck with your mattress surgery. I'm so glad I did mine. I love the way the mattress feels with latex and memory foam over the coils instead of lots and lots of crappy convoluted PU foam. Now I hate to get out of bed in the morning. |