Mattress Forum

First of all what bed do you have. Can you give us the Manufacturer, model, type of springs, etc. - any and all info you can give us is helpful.

Secondly, if you don't mind, are you small, normal or large? If that's too personal, okay, but it does help.

Now, can you tell us what the problem is exactly? You say it is killing you. In what way? Lower back, upper back, what?

Are you a side, back or stomach sleeper - or combination of what?

With these answers we can probably make some recommendations.

 thanks for the reply    1st bed we bought was the sealy postupedic randolh terrace   that was terrible, worse than this one now..

the one we have now is the sterns and foster montgumery plush lux, firm,,,  not as bad so far, mostly our hips and lower back.

not nearly as bad so far.. still like sagging in our mid area, butt,, lol  we are average  I am 180, and she is 130, shhhh.. don't tell her that,

you can feel in the middle of the bed now, is more or less raised, obviously not sunk in as much,  we have had the bed 3 months today..

they have these memory foam toppers at BJ's by me   for some reason I think they are crap... like the soft foam in this bed, most likely right?

I hate to tear this bed open, but told the wife I am not taking it back. thanks again, if you need more info let me know.

oh sorry we sleep on our back and sides, I move all night long, actually going to see a surgeon next month  with this

nerve issue in my neck, numb arm and pain,, can't wait for that... started bout 6 months ago.. so tough for me to get comfortable

anywhere ...

I looked for your mattress on the web and thanks to the S Co mattress companies' policy of changing their mattresses' names much like criminals, so no one can figure out exactly what they are or compare them, I could not find any specs on it. If you can find a link or give us the info as to what kind of springs, and more importantly, how many layers of PU foam is on top of the springs, then maybe we can tell you more authoritatively if it's too soft or too firm. Sometimes though, even if it's too firm, mattresss surgery is still necessary. My Englander was a case in point. I bought a VERY firm model thinking I could just add toppers on top of it, but no, it didn't work, I had to open 'er up and take out the foam and replace it with latex.

Anyway...Lower back and mid back pain is often from a too-soft bed, so adding toppers most likely will not help. Is this not a pillow-top? IF it is, then for sure you cannot fix it with a topper. But it seems to me in any case, the problem is that the bed is too soft even though it's a Firm. This is only a guess but that is my best guess.

Lie on the bed on your side and have your wife see if you are sinking down too much in the butt/lower back area; in other words your spine is not staying aligned. At times I even used a marker to draw a line down the middle of my spine so my wife could easily see if my spine was staying straight. Or have her take photos exactly from the side (90 degrees) and look at those (if you have a digital cam or phone with cam).

If you are sinking down into it, then I am sorry to say the only solution is a new mattress or mattress surgery.

However, do not despair. Mattress surgery is not the horrible thing you think, as if you would be "ruining" your new mattress. On the other hand, you will be much IMPROVING your new mattress by taking out the crappy foam and putting in quality latex in its place. Maybe an inch of mem. foam later if you feel you need it but I recommend staying with latex, and maybe a wool topper.

I suggest you look at some of the mattress surgery threads under "Highlighted Threads" at the top of the main page. Look at it this way: Once you make the bed, no one knows it has been gutted. AND it being open allows you to change the 1" latex layers out, mix them around, to fine-tune your mattress to harder or softer.

Putting a topper on a too-soft mattress only makes it worse.

If you think the mattress isn't too soft and it is in fact too firm, then try one or two 1" latex toppers - I'd get a 24ILD and a 14ILD - and see how it feels with those. If it works, fine, you're done. If not, you can use them in your post-surgery mattress, though you'll also need to add a medium or medium firm layer - say, 28-32ILD. I prefer Talalay, I prefer Natural. (Except the 14ILD mentioned is only available at sleeplikeabear, as far as I know, and it's Talatech.)

Hope this helps. By the way I am sleeping much better with my post-surgery mattress. I had a bad period for a while when my HR foam had to be replaced with latex, but now it's "mostly good". I still have bad nights, and sometimes after 8 hours it begins to bother me, but that's way better than before when I was only sleeping 4-5 hours a night.

Unfortunately buying latex toppers will run you about $205 each per 1" thickness, shipped, (via rockymountainmattress.com). Not sure how much the Talatech 14ILD is in King but I think it's about the same. So it may cost you another $600 to fix your mattress, but you'll have a mattress that will last at least 5 years I'd say, maybe more depending on the springs...

If you wanna try a memory foam topper, first, get a 4-5lb density one. Overstock has Sensus memory foam that might be okay, though really I think memory foam is a waste of money. But that's a controversial topic around here, some like it.

  I have watched the mattress surgery. and I think you are right,  forget the topper, and I know for a fact our spines are not aligned

. really appreciate you taking the time, to write all the details to help... 

anyway here is the specs of the mattress  S&F montgomry luxury firm,,, is thid what you were looking for... i am going to see how this playe out,

and really take your advice into consideration for sure, little tight on cash right now, got to buy mom a car, always got to take care of mom....

what are sons for right.

now do you know and good car dealers in rochester ny lol  talk soon   hope to have some good news soon. may have to just get the knife out..

have some good blades I do...

Stay away from John Holtz franchises, They treat their customers really really bad. Dorschel has always been good to us. And don't even think about that "HUGE" idoit.(is he a letch or what?)

I got tired of the mattress dealers locally and just bought a natural deluxe king size Flobed.(glad I did cause my wife says it's as comfortable as the Pranasleep Wahe Guru we were contemplating

One thing you could try is to pad up under the hip area, between the mattress and box spring.  Weird, I know, but a mattress maker told me this trick and it seems to work for awhile anyway.  You know how you have a firmer line down the middle of the bed?  That's where the two box springs meet and is a firmer support area.  Odd how you can feel that, isnt' it?  You can use a towel, blanket, piece of wood, foam, firm foam, whatever...to keep your hips from sinking so much.  Experiement and see how that feels.

Then you have mattress surgery.  No doubt in my mind that the foam has just softened too much under your hips and not enough under your shoulders.  If the bed was comfortable at one time, you might try cutting(electric knife works well) your foam into thirds across the bed...upper, middle, lower.  Mark first with a pen and a yardstick for accuracy, then cut(this is after you take the top off, leave that intact!!).

Then loosen whatever glue is there, and switch the thirds so the soft middle piece is under your shoulders, and the firmer top piece is under your hips.  Should feel better than new.  You then have the lower piece to rotate when the middle goes dead again.  And you also have a template piece to find some different foam when all three pieces are soft. 

Meanwhile, try the middle pad under the mattres trick. It will raise your hips out of the dent a bit, a little is a lot...don't go overboard with thickness or you'll put your hips out of alignment the opposite way!  Also, you might try a fiberfill fluffy bed pad underneath you for shoulder comfort.  I used one for nearly a year until my too firm bed softened up enough for my shoulders.  Now, a year and a half after getting my bed, it is comfortable with no additonal messing with...and its original foam(I have probably just jinxed myself, but it is okay because I will simply replace my foam when it dies).

BTW, save yourself money and don't bother with a memory foam topper.  It will not help this situation.  I know.  I have many laying around here because I went that route before figuring that out.  They come in handy when grandkids come to visit...nice, thick stuff that makes into spare sleeping areas, but takes up way too much room in the closets!!!

Good luck,

Kait

I would never get another S&F mattress - especially since they sell themselves as a premium priced brand.

not dire strats yet, been about 3 months, I am sure it will get worse, we did try out the latex beds, just were not comfortable the way they felt,

need getting used to for sure, I will keep everyone updated, when I get started here, no toppers, do not want to take up all the closet space. LOL

I have  heard that the S&F  have some of the best springs, I do not believe, not to many people are happy with there beds..

we had a sealy posturpedic for 15 years  and it was fine, that is why our first choice was one,, that bit the dust, then we had to trade it up

at the same store, and picked this one... oh well   maybe just stick to the couch... thanks for the tip about the dealers RJ

HUGE Rochester HUGE  hate that guy... LOL  and thanks for all the replys and help... hope I can contribute myself someday..

Rick

Kait, I couldn't agree more! I do use my 1" of Venus foam periodically but I am not sure why, it usually turns out to only "work" for a short time then it craps out. Our apartment is already too small for us and we have no leftover storage space so we have foam laying around in bags under the sleeper sofa, behind it, etc. etc. Foam everywhere! It's crazy. We should throw it out but hate to throw out "perfectly good foam". Like you say it does serve as an extra mattress on the floor should a friend stay over and not like the couch futon.

By the way, exactly what did you use under your mattress to beef it up in the hip area? What material and about how many inches or parts of an inch? I may try this. My mattress right now feels pretty good except that I feel my hips are sinking in too much.

Kappy you are welcome, I know how it is to not get a good night's sleep. I went two years with only 4-5 hours per night due to shoulder pain. I was grouchy and irritable all the time and it was terrible. Thank goodness now I get at least 6-7 hours and with less pain. Sometimes I get 8-9 hours with little or no pain.

Anyway, your "specs" on your S&F just shows how little the SCo's tell us about their mattresses. Look at it - it has NO real info there, just marketing fluff. It does not say what type of foam or what ILD or even how thick the foam "comfort layers" are!

However, from my Sealy experience and others' I can pretty much guarantee that 3 comfort layers means you have about 2-3 inches of cheap polyurethane foam and THAT is what is hurting you.

I would do this if I were you, especially if money is tight:

Get out your sharp knife and cut around the edges over the rib, on 3 sides of the mattress. Take out at least the top 2 "comfort layers" of cheap soft pu foam. That alone will probably make your mattress feel better.

I would maybe try Kait's idea first, of putting something in below the mattress to beef up the area where your hips tend to be.

As to zoning I tried it for a couple years and it didn't work out well for me. However I do still believe in it, in principle.  Maybe I just didn't do it right.

If money is an issue (I know it is for me right now), I would first try Kait's method and if that doesn't work, cut it open and try losing a layer or two - or even 3 of the top layers of foam. You can always put them back and restore it to the way it was though I am certain you will not want to do so. Remove one at a time, even and see what feels best.

You could try buying a couple of 1" layers of, say 24ILD Natural Talalay latex and play with those, on just one side, or both sides of the mattress. (Two twin toppers = one E. King size.)

Good luck. I know it sucks to buy a new bed and have to cut it open and fix it, but by doing so you will have much more control over the comfort and end up with much better materials. As Budgy says, a really GOOD mattress these days costs around $4-5k (I'm quoting from memory, but I think that's what he said), so if you have to add a grand in toppers to make your mattress good, you are probably still ahead of that figure, no?

Also, the good news is, (I think) those springs you have look pretty good. Again, I could be mis-remembering but I seem to recall someone endorsing those springs. I remember looking at a web page about them and they looked very impressive. Maybe Budgy will weigh in on that and either confirm or deny the above quote re cost...

Good luck and do keep us posted on your progress in finding a good night's sleep.

I ended up making it too thick and it kind of bothered me during the night. Am trying it tonight with thirds, and very flat, right next to the springs. Hopefully that will fare better. I have never had success with "zoning" but maybe this will work?