Mattress Forum

I found this website on the Europa.   Hard to tell much about how they make it though.  The Simmons has individual pocketed coils as well, so it is the same style.  One downside of the pocketed coils is that it is easier for them to shift around.  They may wear out a bit faster as well, since the load is not shared by the surrounding coils.  The Sealy (and probably Serta?) has interlaced coils.  So, the surrounding ones also provide support.  The downside is that it will not conform as well to your body.  For a Sealy, ideally you would get a Signature or Preferred, since they have the most coils. 

Hard to say, since none of us have any experience with Europa.   It may not make a huge difference as long as it is firm enough and does not have much foam on top of the springs.  

Alice

Unfortunately I believe the root cause of why this is driving you nuts is because you are caught between a rock and hard place.  They have you roped into an inherently bad situation:  you must exchange your bad product for something else they have, and everything they have are also bad products.

Maybe you can push for an full-out refund and if you plead with them to ding you with a re-stocking fee for their trouble? I know it might not work, but perhaps it is worth a try.  For you to get a good solution to this, the best thing would be to not start out in the bad situation in which  they have you trapped. 

I made a mistake, I meant to say in Sealy you should get the Signature or Reserve.  I tried a Signature once that was very firm.   I actually own a Reserve that I did mattress surgery on.  The springs themselves are pretty firm, but the foam inside was junk.  I would have hated the mattress without any surgergy.   The Signature and Reserve has the most coils in the Sealy line.

The Preferred I tried at the store was definitely not as firm as the Reserve, so I can see why you would not like that.   The Signature or Reserve might push you beyond your price point, especially if the store does not have good pricing.  The cheapest king Sealy Reserve at US-mattress is $1010, that includes delivery and tax (to most states). 

Also, you do NOT want a pillowtop.  That will breakdown and provide no support.  You are better creating your own comfort level by adding latex or possibly 1-2" of 5 lb. memory foam on top.

So, you are kind of stuck in a tough situation if you cannot return for a refuncd.  I still recommend the firmest as well, as long as you are willing to pay some more to add a topper.   The foam in the S brands is going to be junk.  Not sure about the Europa, but at that price I suspect it will have junk to.  If it has some latex and is pretty firm, it sounds like it might be better than the others.  Not sure how long it will last though.

Yes, it is a tough call.  

Not sure how long it will last, but probably as good of a choice as any of the others.  Funny how much the price dropped when you complained about it...

Usually the estate has dark brown detailing.   You can look at a picture on their website.  It usually says it on the mattress, but you can ask as well.

I don't know of any real reviews of the estate over a long period of time.  So, their still is possibly an issue of the foam quality and how long it will last.  Some of the older S&F models had sagging and foam issues like all of the other S brands.

The estate I liked was the luxury firm no pillowtop.  Is that the one you tried?   If you want really firm, they have an Ultra firm estate that felt rock solid.  Too firm me to sleep on.  The luxury firm (one step softer than the ultra firm) estate felt firm and supportive, yet probably sleepable without a top.  Who knows if in 6 months it would be sagging.

I believe the price of a queen estate was around $1275 on sale at Macy's.  Right now it looks like they increased the price a bit to around $1500

The estate has a different coil system.  It is coil in a coil.  The salesman told me that the estate was much better, but he may have been blowing smoke.  I had trouble getting info. on exactly what was in the S&F, so that made me a bit nervous.

In the end I decided that I wanted to be able to customize myself.  I tried a flobed that I pretty much liked, but I ended up getting a good deal on a Sealy Reserve that I cut open (you would not believe the junk foam inside) and put in my own latex and 1" of memory foam.  I am pretty happy with that right now. 

The firmer one (with the least foam) still might be your best bet, but you may need to add 1-2" to make it comfortable enough.  If you end up doing mattress surgery, you don't want to pay up a lot for the foam they put in.

Taller is probably worse, because that means more foam that can go bad.  If possible, you should try to find out what foam is above the springs for both choices.

If you look on the Macy's website for the estate (I have a link above), there is one review that said it seemed fine at first, but after 8 hours it was like a sinkhole.  Yikes.  That would be my fear. That is a sign of too much foam.  You can't take one review too seriously, but my guess is the luxury has less foam since it is firmer and shorter.  That is probably less risky.  The estate coil system might be better in theory, but who knows in practice.  

There is the Estate Ultra Firm which was very firm.  Hard to see that cratering in too much, but one never knows until you sleep on it.   If you go to a Macy's you might be able to try it.  Not sure if you have that option though.

I would probably go with the luxury one, if it indeed feels firmer to you.  It might be too firm at first, but you can always make it softer with a topper.  If it too soft you are pretty much in trouble.

No matter what, you won't typically find a bed that is made anywhere near what your old bed(the 20yo hand me down)was.  They just don't make them like that anymore.  If you did not trade it in with your new bed, I'd be really curious to find out what the inside configuration was.  They did not use as much foam in them as they do now, and used other things for cush. 

I had a friend stay over for a couple of nights this last week from out of town.  I know she has a bad back from different accidents in the past so was highly concerned for her comfort while sleeping.  I had two beds available, one was made for my daughter by our bed guy, it was Bonnell springs, cotton batting, and less than an inch of hd PU foam on top.  This was over a bunkie board, quite firm.  The other mattress has memory foam on the top layer and hurts MY back so it was simply there if this one was too firm.  She slept fine on the firm one.  Also told me that her husband and she have had their bed that they bought new when they married 24 years ago and were thinking of replacing it.  They thought the bed had developed a dip in the middle but found that their foundation's middle leg had slipped sideways, put it all back together correctly, flipped the mattress, and sleeps like new again.  I told her she really dodged a bullet on that one, that mattresses won't be the same anymore.  These days mattresses last a few years at best it seems. 

Kait

So glad I did the exchange!

I haven't needed a topper either, the bed is comfortable enough as is.

Thanks everyone who posted in here for your help :)