| I am finding that the materials for a beckley and other handmades are not very expensive, and I would like to construct my own bed using wool batting, latex and a cuddle bed to top it. I need to find a high support pocket coil system in a box and some natural form of fire retardant. I know that several of you have done mattress surgery. Hoping you have some suggestions, as I do not trust the coil systems in the commercial mattresses and cannot get info on them in any case. wondering if leggett and platt would sell it to me retail. any ideas? thanks |
| mass produced springs are SOOO cheap that I doubt they would just sell 'one' if you know what I mean. I think this might a tough one to do but then again ive never tried. let us know how it goes. If you can find a woolen mill near you then you can probably buy raw carded wool from them....that could serve as a natural fire barrier for you. |
|
olenska wrote: I am finding that the materials for a beckley and other handmades are not very expensive, and I would like to construct my own bed using wool batting, latex and a cuddle bed to top it. I need to find a high support pocket coil system in a box and some natural form of fire retardant. I know that several of you have done mattress surgery. Hoping you have some suggestions, as I do not trust the coil systems in the commercial mattresses and cannot get info on them in any case. wondering if leggett and platt would sell it to me retail. any ideas? thanks But I think it's going to be very difficult if not impossible to buy just the springs. As far as trusting the coil systems in SCo mattresses, you can usually get the specs on what kind of coils they are if you insist. They will sometimes have to call someone to find out and it might take a day or two but you can usually get the specs on the mattress coils and almost all of them ARE made by L&P, so it's no big deal really to use the springs from an SCo mattress, imho. Sealy seems to make pretty decent offset coils. If you buy their super firm "rock hard" model it will usually be the cheapest and won't have much pu foam in it so you will have less foam to throw away... My wife has a Sealy she's still using the springs on after about 5 years or more. I threw mine out because I THOUGHT they were no good but now I think I was wrong. Replaced mine with Englander Bonnell coils and now I'm thinking they are too firm for me (12 or 12.5 gauge). My wife's Sealy springs feel better, to me, now than the Englander. Though I was able to soften up the Englander coils by putting 1/2" of memory foam right over the top of them, as a base for the latex on top. |
|
thanks. helpful info. I will look into the sealy. seem to remember budgy posting that latex needs a pocket coil system, maybe not. my back likes 12 1/2 gauge over 9 1/2 box springs, just not sure that works under latex. I did locate carded wool. I have a closet full of cotton comforters and can use some of those as well with the wool on top. also in touch with a farm that sells horse mane hair. will report when I get further into the process. checked on sealy. all mattresses are 14 gauge. may not be firm enough for my needs. This message was modified May 17, 2010 by olenska
|
|
olenska wrote: thanks. helpful info. I will look into the sealy. seem to remember budgy posting that latex needs a pocket coil system, maybe not. my back likes 12 1/2 gauge over 9 1/2 box springs, just not sure that works under latex. I did locate carded wool. I have a closet full of cotton comforters and can use some of those as well with the wool on top. also in touch with a farm that sells horse mane hair. will report when I get further into the process.
checked on sealy. all mattresses are 14 gauge. may not be firm enough for my needs. I know that the top of the line Simmons have even lower gauge pocketed coils with lot's of coils. Probably more that you want to spend though for surgery purposes. There may be an issue as well with the pocketed coils shifting around. |
| have heard that about simmons. wondering if they corrected the problem, as their pocket coils are comfortable. do not want to buy it if they slip, however. company has been sold, so possible they have corrected it? |
| update on coil systems. spoke to Legget and Platt on the phone. asked if they could sell me an offset coil system in 12 1/2 or 12/3/4. said they could not do it, but recommended gold bond top of the line called Premier series, which has a good box in the 9 1/2 range and a 12 2/4 gauge offset coil system. tons of PU foam, however. also King Koil makes a series called Extended Life intended for heavier weight folks with a coil system of that gauge. some of the Sealy's are also 12 3/4, but only 338 coils for a full. All of these will run 1200 to 1500 new and all are stacked with bad foam, some with one inch of latex. for that price one can buy a handmade Beckley in a full size, so unless I can find one of these used that I can tear up for cheap, I may end up just buying a Beckley. (sigh). I did locate the other materials - carded wool and cotton felt in rolls, at very good prices. and 2 inches of latex would finish it off. PS When I mentioned that I wanted to build my own because of the collapse nightmares with all commercial mattresses, the Legget and Platt guy said " Oh you figured that out, did you " |
|
Where do you get carded wool at? Can you provide a link, I am trying to find wool that does not have a stiff backing. Pretty sad that we all FINALLY have caught on to the garbage PU foam they put in mattresses today. Pretty sad that we have to resort to trying to build our own beds out of trying to not be in pain! |
|
found a guy selling it on ebay. just do a search and it will come up. there are a few out there. also found a guy who sells bulk horse mane hair. 34 to 42 $ a pound. http://mmhorsehair.com/uploads/2009_Tail_Hair_Price_List.pdf
hey but please don't bid against me on virginia19450 carded wool batting on ebay. hoping to get that one This message was modified May 23, 2010 by olenska
|
| Don't worry I don't ever use Ebay, too risky for me. What is carded wool anyway? |
| cleaned up wool batting in sheets big enough to use in a quilt. comes quite thick, ie much thicker than a wool blanket.so good for my purposes |
|
olenska wrote: update on coil systems. spoke to Legget and Platt on the phone. asked if they could sell me an offset coil system in 12 1/2 or 12/3/4. said they could not do it, but recommended gold bond top of the line called Premier series, which has a good box in the 9 1/2 range and a 12 2/4 gauge offset coil system. tons of PU foam, however. also King Koil makes a series called Extended Life intended for heavier weight folks with a coil system of that gauge. some of the Sealy's are also 12 3/4, but only 338 coils for a full. All of these will run 1200 to 1500 new and all are stacked with bad foam, some with one inch of latex. for that price one can buy a handmade Beckley in a full size, so unless I can find one of these used that I can tear up for cheap, I may end up just buying a Beckley. (sigh). I did locate the other materials - carded wool and cotton felt in rolls, at very good prices. and 2 inches of latex would finish it off. PS When I mentioned that I wanted to build my own because of the collapse nightmares with all commercial mattresses, the Legget and Platt guy said " Oh you figured that out, did you " The quote from the L&P guy is classic! Thanks for sharing that! It's the first time I've heard ANYONE within the mattress industry admit to it! I was running an anti-mattress industry newspaper, my headline would be "L&P Confirms: S Co. Mattresses Are A Nightmare!"
I like that you're taking a different approach right off the bat, adding horse hair and wool layers to your DIY mattress! Am anxious to see if you like it. What made you decide to do this instead of following the usual springs + latex approach? I have been wondering myself about the possible need for a cotton or wool layer, so I'm anxious to see if you like your mattress when it's done, and meanwhile I might try some cotton in there, myself. I'm thinking cotton because we have a futon filled with cotton and it is surprisingly comfortable. Not super comfortable because there are no springs or other layers. But something about it makes me think a cotton layer might be an important component of a good mattress. Also I've noticed that several small custom mattress companies use cotton as a layer, and I think a lot of S Co's used to, as well, back in the day when mattresses were made well. If you buy any of this stuff (cotton, wool, horsehair) it would be great if you would provide photos. Too bad about not being able to buy just coils. I bet it's POSSIBLE, but god knows from whom. Maybe one of the CUSTOM mattress makers - more of a mom & pop shop - might be willing to sell you one. I might ask Custom Comfort or a couple of the local companies around here if they'd sell me just their springs... I know they're going to look at me like I'm nuts, but... what the heck? Oh, I also wanted to say re springs: I don't recall Budgy ever saying individual pocket coils were best for latex. If so can you tell me which thread? Or maybe he'll see this and comment. But I know he doesn't read all the threads... Also in a recent thread, somewhere - I'm looking for it - he was saying that Simmons coils do NOT migrate, or at least that's what I think he was saying. I asked for clarification and now can't find the thread. If I find it I'll post it here. I would by Simmons pocket coils if I thought they were good quality. Oh, I do remember him saying that NOW they not so good, though, because they cover them in polyester or something so they're stiffer than before, not as comforming. I think I asked then, what is the best pocket coils, if any? So I've got to find that thread! I had a Simmons once and it only lasted about a year before killing my back. I was convinced the coils migrated. I bad mouthed them all over the net after that and swore I'd never buy another one! But maybe they got better after that - that was around 1998 or so... This message was modified May 24, 2010 by jimsocal
|
|
Guess I need to find out where I can buy this "carded wool" so I can make my own mattress pad. How wide can you get it? Guess I need to google, I am not an Ebay person. I need a brick and mortar store, or internet store front. Cotton would be nice too. I saw Joanne's had cotton batting for quilts, guess I will go visit their store to see it in person. It may be stiff for all I know. I would think the Simmon's coils would not be able to handle the weight of the latex. You would need strong coils for that. |
| Cotton felt and cotton batting are not the same thing. cotton felt is used in upholstery. looks to be about 1/2 inch thick. In the cutaway I saw for the Shifmans, they used 8 to ten inches thick of cotton felt. a whole lot. the comfort layer - dacron, wool, latex combination - was on top of that. Cotton felt is sold in rolls. I saw it on ebay but you could buy it from anyplace that sells upholstery materials or from a shop that does it. as for the coils, you remember correctly. I read the same threads. I just looked at a 5 year old simmons. coils were worthless.had been "firm" but felt like mush. I also looked at a 10 year old handmade shifman. coils in both the mattress and box were shot. had originally been an extra firm and now bounced like a trampoline. coils in the box seemed to have just died. so I doubt that the simmons pocket coils have much of a lifespan. I do think that the lower gauge is what I need . and open offset. so that is what I am now looking for. did find a stearns and foster with 12 3/4 coils. I have not seen it yet, so don't know how good they are. I will let you know. the one advantage to buying vs. making is getting a two sided mattress. I don't think I have the stamina or the budget to do this whole thing twice. |
|
I may visit an upholstery shop sometime soon. I went to Joanne's and the cotton batting for quilts was really bad, it has cotton pieces that are not cleaned and rough. Isn't felting was the wool puddle pad is? That is dense then according to Budgy, and it looks like it is now that I look at the picture again. I want fluffy. |
| you may want fluffy on top, but this is not topper material, it is the muscle of the mattress. there are wool toppers that will give you that . just discovered holland maid offset coils - gold bond uses them in some models. and aireloom and shifman. so now I understand why those beds felt so great to me. it was that coil system. that is what I will be looking for. |
|
okay. here ya go. you can buy all materials from hickory springs, maker of the holland maid coil units. http://www.hickorysprings.com/2008/Locations.html I am going to call them today, so I will report back what I find out. |
|
Are you positive that Shifman uses cotton felt? All of the cotton felt layers I have seen in a mattress basically look like this:
The stuff is just recycled junk cotton materials....it does NOT hold its shape very well at all. It is suitable to use one or two layers of this directly over the springs to prevent coils from damaging other upholstery materials (coconut coir is better for this job), however I would not use any more than this. Cotton batting can also be purchased in rolls: This is also usually made of new non-recycled materials. It will be more comfortable than cotton felt, it will still ultimately compress which is why if you are going to make a DIY mattress it is important to be able to know how to 'tuft' the fillings into place. This is the problem with going for either of these materials for a DIY build...its simply challenging work. |
Hey Budgy, thanks much for your input on this. I was just thinking, "Hmmm, I'm going to ask Budgy about this", and then there you were in the next response!  Now that you've gotten yourself into this: I really have been wanting to try a layer of cotton and/or wool and I think I have the patience to make it work. But I have no idea of what it is I need to do! Can you explain to me what you mean when you say that you have to "tuft the fillings into place"? I wonder if there's any explanation of this process to be found on the net or anywhere? Or if it is something that only an "old time" mattress maker would know how to do? And surely anyone working for a mattress co. isn't going to show me... (unless I could infiltrate... get a job at a local custom mattress manufacturer, perhaps...!) As I think I mentioned earlier, I have a futon full of what looks like cotton batting. It surely can't be that time consuming to do if cheap futons use it, right? And actually the futon seems pretty comfy for most people who've slept on it. We've had no complaints even when pushing guests for criticism of it, offering them other options, etc. Olenska, do you have a link to show us where you got your info re Shiffman's mattresses using cotton felt or batting etc.? (I'll do a search but if you have one handy...) budgy wrote: Are you positive that Shifman uses cotton felt? All of the cotton felt layers I have seen in a mattress basically look like this:
The stuff is just recycled junk cotton materials....it does NOT hold its shape very well at all. It is suitable to use one or two layers of this directly over the springs to prevent coils from damaging other upholstery materials (coconut coir is better for this job), however I would not use any more than this. Cotton batting can also be purchased in rolls: This is also usually made of new non-recycled materials. It will be more comfortable than cotton felt, it will still ultimately compress which is why if you are going to make a DIY mattress it is important to be able to know how to 'tuft' the fillings into place. This is the problem with going for either of these materials for a DIY build...its simply challenging work. This message was modified May 26, 2010 by jimsocal
|
| Thanks for the pictures Budgy, that is helpful. Do you happen to know the width of the cotton batting rolls? I know I have seen this at the upholstery supply shop. I just wondered if I made a "quilt" type topper with the typical quilter's stitch by hand I could tolerate it. This would not be washable though would it? |
| Cotton batting is washable, however you have to take into account the shrinkage. So you have to build it oversized. It might shrink as much as 10~15% depending on how its all quilted. |
|
Thanks Budgy, I will make it much larger than 60x80 than. Did you know how wide and thick the batting is? Is it always the same everywhere? I am going to go to the upholstery supply shop and take a look sometime. 1/2 hour away, so I just wanted to do the math first. It could bunch up and be a mess in the wash if it is not really quilted well wouldn't it? May be a huge project the more I think about it. Do they sell wool batting anywhere? I know the upholstery shop locally here has only cotton. The reason I would want wool over cotton is dust mites and cotton, versus wool and no dust mites (according to legend) LOL. |
|
well the cotton might actually be better for this than generic wool as it is washable. most wool is not going to take to washing well. ive never actually bought cotton batting before, i would imagine whoever sells it would have to know the specs on it, width, and how thick it is or they measure it in GSM or oz per yd. |
| Thanks Budgy! I love the upholstery shop, all the fabrics, and foams, guess I am a do it yourself person anyway. I don't have much to lose trying the cotton batting and quilting. |
|
Hey Jim, http://www.ehow.com/how_5016168_make-tufts-upholstery.html If you have a basic understanding of sewing you can perhaps decipher this. Although because of the thickness involved you will have to adjust your own measurements and I would recommend using a stronger thread than standard cotton yarn. You will probably want to use linen yarn if you can get it. And you need a strong and long threading needle to make this kind of work a lot easier on the hands. EDITED: better link to read This message was modified May 26, 2010 by budgy
|
|
budgy, many thanks for your assistance on this. the cotton batting in the shifman was layered with each layer about one half inch. It looks like your second photo, of cotton batting. so that is what they are using. I have read online reviews from people who have had their shifmans and hastens compress pretty badly. and those are cotton and wool. so I see what you mean about this being a tricky venture. their "remedy" is to put the mattress on the floor and stomp on it, and they say that puts the cotton and wool back into balance. sounds like the same maintenance as a feather bed, which was also used as a mattress in the past. hope I don't botch this, so I am very grateful for your advice. This message was modified May 26, 2010 by olenska
|
|
Just saw this post...the cotton batting I've seen used in beds is the second picture...and there is plenty of it, inches and inches, tho I did not measure. First springs, then insulator layer(s)...wire mesh/burlap, the cotton, then foam...usually glued I think... Kait |