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here is the list of contents according to one website that carries the mattress. I'm trying to make sure that the core of this matress is actually all latex, not just some latex. I realize that there are some layers (comfort layers) that are pu foam, and if I click on it it claims to be high density foam, any comments on that?) Quilt - Top of Mattress
Description of "supersoft sealy foam" Description
Description of "Luxury Latex Foam" Features Luxury Latex Foam contours to your body’s curves, and moves with you as you move in the bed, providing continuous orthopedic support. As the Luxury Latex Foam contours to your body, your body weight is spread over your entire sleeping surface. The contouring effect spreads your body weight over more of the sleeping surface and minimizes "pressure points", thereby creating a more comfortable sleep. Pressure points can create discomfort and cause you to toss and turn more frequently, so Latex’s contouring property reduces pressure points to help you toss and turn less, and sleep better. In addition, another feature of Luxury Latex Foam is the "open cell" structure that enables the mattress to "breath". This feature allows the release of body heat and moisture keeping the sleeping surface comfortable. Description of the "InfiniLux" Description
----I realize that is a misleading description that implies it is actually latex but it's not. Clever buggers----- |
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well I got my mattress salesman to do some actual work for me on this one. After calling S/F myself (I know I asked about Sealy but same thing) S/F wouldn't give me any specifications at all. My mattress guy was able to get some from his contacts. He tells me that the core is an ILD of 38 and the "flawless foam" which on the Sealy I think is called the "supersoft sealy foam" is a 28 ILD. Nothing more. And that the core is in fact all latex, no other materials besides latex (albeit the synthetic latex) in there. So now I'm just left wondering if the amounts of non-latex materials is too much to compromise the quality and longevity of the mattress. And by longevity I mean 5-8 yrs would make me happy. Any comments on this information? |
| I tried one of these mattresses out today and it was very comfortable. I am trying to decide between this and one of the online kits. |
| I had this same mattress delivered 2 weeks ago and was excited beyond words. I had a sore back and hip from a 20 year old rock hard mattress and it slowly helped alleviate most of that pain. It sunk so much around my shoulders I had to adjust the height of my pillow to one half as thick to avoid a neck ache. This mattress is VERY soft and does not feel supportive. It's great for pressure points but not for a sense of firmness. It squishes down when you sit on it if you like to sit in bed and read--a bit uncomfortable. With all the latex, I thought it would be firmer. I'm reluctantly turning mine back in and getting a sealy springfree plush without the box top. Hopefully it will be the best of comfort and firmness. |
| There are 5 different levels of firm/plushness. Which one did you think was too soft? Was it the Sealy or the Stearns/Foster? Not that it is really different but we are actually getting the S/F model. I don't know why I put the Sealy one in the thread. The one we are leaning towards was right in the middle of firm and plush. In the S/F brand it is called Saybrook point. It did not have a pillow top. |
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The Sealy you described has WAY TOO MUCH soft foam in it. I don't care how much latex it has, it will not give proper support to the back with all that soft foam. My advice is that no matter what spring mattress you buy, get the firmest one possible with the best springs and then add your own toppers such as high quality latex and high quality 5lb memory foam. Never have more than 2-3" of soft foam under your back. |
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jimsocal wrote: Never have more than 2-3" of soft foam under your back. These words should be posted in banner format at the top of this forum! |
| Please check your specks again--they match up to the S & F Ariel Sands, not the Saybrook according to my info. The mattress I referred to in my answer was the S & F Ariel Sands. It truly is way too much cushioning although it feels like a dream when you first lie on it. If you try the Saybrook I'd love to hear your feedback after sleeping on it for a few days . I'm looking at it myself now. Also, trying to figure out if it would just be better to get an innerspring with latex inside as the comfort layers or a stripped down innerspring and add layers as many advocate on this board. Good luck with your decision. |
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"Never have more than 2-3" of soft foam under your back." A very good starting point. And back to the original query, stay away from any mattress with that much comfort PU. Except for allergy side of things, nothing wrong with high quality HR PU. It's the soft comfort crap that will compress (or even worse, lose all support, but NOT compress so warranty never kicks in). These companies don't make money by selling mattresses that last 20 years. If they really wanted to make a good mattress, they wouldn't use any soft PU materials subject to rapid failure OR would make it easy to open up and replace the compromised layers. They don't for a reason. If you've been told it's a 38 ILD 6" core, and you like it, you can buy 6" of 40 ILD (or 40/44) for under $900, and build your own. Even if considering one of these with a plan to open up yourself and replace junk when needed, I would do some serious research on the all synthetic talalay. It may be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but I sort of doubt it. The 6" core you buy on your own should last 20 years. Why settle for cheaper materials which may only last 5-8? Google "sleeplikeabear." They carry LI toppers in thicknesses from 1" to 3" (also 6", but only in 28 ILD, which is way too soft). |
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These mattress are difficult to compare by name as each store has a different name for these mattresses. There are only 5 different spring free mattresses firm, plush, ultra plush, plush euro pillowtop and ultra plush box top. The mattress I tried was the ultra plush model, but I would like to try the plush model which is less expensive. The plush model supposedly offers more support and has less foam. Anyone have any experience/input on the plush model? Thanks |
for some reason I just grabbed the specs off a random s/f latex model, NOT the saybrook point which is the one we are looking at. I was gettingmore at the material content, not the specific amounts of materials. Sorry for the confusion! Here are the layers of the Saybrook Point:
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| Regarding S & F and Sealy Latex Mattresses--I actually talked to a Sealy rep who told me the firmness of their latex cores in all the Springfree mattresses: the 1.57 "Luxury Layer" is 35, their 2nd two "Firm Luxury Layers" are 45.6. Don't know if that's accurate, it's just what was told to me. Hope that helps a little. All I know is that without some padding those mattresses feel too hard for me. |
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"1.57" Plush Luxury Latex 1.57" Firm Luxury Latex 5.71" Firm Luxury Latex" More S brand BS! Anyone here tried to measure .57 inches or .71, especially with latex foam? Same goes for claiming 45.6 ILD. |
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I think some people find it hard to believe that names like "Sealy" and "Sterns and Foster" make crappy mattresses. They'll have to learn for themselves. |
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I certainly do believe it. I'm looking for a replacement for my S/F right now. It's just the more I read the more complicated this gets. Not only do I have to figure out the layers of latex top to bottom, now I have to figure out the zones as well. That makes for (forgive my poor math skills) a heck of a large number of variables and possible combinations to try before getting it right. *sigh* jimsocal wrote: I think some people find it hard to believe that names like "Sealy" and "Sterns and Foster" make crappy mattresses. They'll have to learn for themselves. |
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LPAD wrote: I certainly do believe it. I'm looking for a replacement for my S/F right now. It's just the more I read the more complicated this gets. Not only do I have to figure out the layers of latex top to bottom, now I have to figure out the zones as well. That makes for (forgive my poor math skills) a heck of a large number of variables and possible combinations to try before getting it right. *sigh*
For most people, I don't think zones are necessary. Maybe better, but not necessary. Not to be a shill for flobeds, but it's really a good business model (at least from the customers' point of view; I have no idea how much money they're making, LOL!) because they have people there you can call who can help you decide what will work for you, based on your weight and height and sleeping habits. Then they will ship you pieces that allow you to adjust the bed in various ways for very little or no extra money, depending on how long it takes you to get it right. They offer memory foam and latex so between the two combinations you can usually find something you like. So I'd guess that about 80% or more of their customers get a bed they are happy with from them. And what is great is: It won't wear out in a few years, and you can always change it / upgrade it by changing the firmnesses or materials inside the mattress, as time goes on and things change with your body. (I have no connection to flobeds. In fact, I am one of their FAILED customers because I simply did not like the feel of Talalay latex. But they took the mattress back and refunded my money minus shipping, no questions asked, no hassle!) There are other web sites that offer cheaper deals on latex but less liberal return policies and if you search here you will find those companies and some of their happy customers. if you really don't care that much about looks(though even this can be dressed up quite a bit so no one would even notice it wasn't a normal mattress) you can build your own wooden slatted platform or buy one, and build your own mattress much cheaper than flobeds with just a little more work and a lot more flexibility. See my thread on building my own or some of mccldwll's threads on zoning etc.. My idea - which is working out well for my wife though Im still experimenting with mine - is to either use a spring base from a cheap or old Sealy, then add something like the following: (this is my wife's mattress): from top to bottom: 1" MEDIUM HR FOAM We happen to also use zones but this is not necessary. The only difference in her's, above, wtih zones is that for the top 1/3 of the mattress she has 1" medium over 1" medium instead of 1" medium over 1" firm which is what she has for the middle 1/3. The bottom 1/3 doesn't really matter that much. We chose Medium over Extra firm so that we can use those to interchange in other areas if necessary. The total cost of this mattress (not counting the springs which we got from our old Sealy) is about $85 and this foam is rated to last 15 years. Though I doubt it if really lasts that long. For this price I'll be happy if it lasts 3 years! On my side, since I have back and shoulder issues I have used the following with some success, though I'm still experimenting: For my top 1/3: For the middle third: Because we are using the "Shell" of the Sealy once you put the sheets on it this looks like a regular mattress. My wife's even has the top still on it from the Sealy - oh yeah, and that adds about another 1/2" of pu foam and some dacron on top. So far, this is the best mattress I have ever slept on. My wife loves her's. I still have back problems which may not be solvable with any mattress. But my back problems are much better now than they were with the Sealy even before it wore out completely (at 3 years in). However, the same mattress above can be made without springs, by adding just a 5"-6" VERY FIRM HR CORE which costs maybe $100 for a twin. Or you could go out and buy a used or cheap mattress and tear it apart for the springs and "shell". The thing about zoning is it really is not difficult to do. For example, let's say you're building a King size bed. A king size bed = 2 x extra long twins side by side. An extra long twin is about 38" x 80". So you divide the 80" into 3 and come up with 3 sections of 26-and-2/3" each x 38" wide. You then buy, say, 6 pieces of one inch foam of whatever type you like, for each side of the king size bed. I'd say that you buy 3 medium pieces and 2 firm and one extra firm, some combination like that, maybe a couple extra pieces to play with. And 2 full extra long twin size bottom layers to go over the springs, of EXTRA FIRM, one half inch thick each, as I described above. OR, if you are using a 6" core instead of springs, skip that Extra firm 1" layer. The pieces tend to stay together on their own, but if they don't you can either use a little spray glue made for foam, or you can use a tight elastic sheet around them or anything else you can think of - just a big piece of elastic maybe? If you use the shell of a spring mattress, the shell holds them in place. You can substitute latex of either Dunlop or Talalay or "jungle" type for any of the layers and you can substitute memory foam for the top "1-2" layers (personally I think 2" is too much memory foam, though). Hope this helps someone who wants to build their own mattress. |
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LPAD wrote: for some reason I just grabbed the specs off a random s/f latex model, NOT the saybrook point which is the one we are looking at. I was gettingmore at the material content, not the specific amounts of materials. Sorry for the confusion! Here are the layers of the Saybrook Point:
Also, I question their listing a layer of 1/4" latex. I've never seen nor heard of it! |
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Jim, a couple more questions/thoughts......on the one hand I am liking the idea of getting a basic, 'good' coil firm mattress with almost zero padding, and then buying my own toppers, such as you are working through. On the other hand, while a 'good' spring mattress is often recommended, the big S companies are always NOT recommended- so where to find a 'good' coil mattress. What exactly IS a good coil and who makes it? Second, a thought- I wonder if an upholsterer would be able to neatly open up a mattress to remove the crappy foam layers and then stitch it up again neatly or maybe even install a zipper? Maybe this is cost prohibitive but it is just a thought I had. I just can't make up my mind about what I want to do....every day I find myself giving up and just resolving to buy one of the S/F latex mattresses and then thinking that if/when it gets indentations to open it up and remove them and that at least I'll have the latex core. I feel very hesitant to buy something that I can't feel first. And why is flobeds so much cheaper than the savvy rest? It looks like an identical product. Lastly, where did you purchase your different foams from (if it was online that is). thanks. Jen |
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Hi LPAD, I did just what you have thought about doing. Over the weekend I purchased the Sealy/S&F mattress that you supplied contents of (the 2nd time): the Saybrook Point/River Crest/Meadow Crest/ Bedford Knoll. I slept on it last night and it was wonderful. I have had lower back, hip and neck pain and only woke up with neck pain due to a pillow thats too firm. I plan to do what Jimsocial did and disassemble it if and when the top PU foam and convoluted latex wears out. It will still have a 9 inch latex core that is supposed to last for 20 years. The latex box top mattress that I just turned back into Costco was indeed too plush, but this one feels just right, at least for now. I did get a big blessing because I found it on Craigs List for $750--original price $3150 at Bassett. It is only 1 year old, no body impressions and the young couple who had it thought it too soft. I haven't slept so good in months as I did last night. I wish you similar results with whatever you choose. |