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Here's an earlier post of mine: "If you are committed to making latex work (durability, comfort, anti-allergen) you may want to try the masochists route and build a zoned mattress, starting with a topper. My 3"/36ILD Talatech has arrived but still haven't unpacked it and replaced the temporary 3" PU piece run latitudinally in hip region. The PU has worked well--absolutely no lower back pain for 2 weeks with present set-up (4" roughly 20 ILD for legs/shoulders and 1" 20 ILD over 3" guesstimated 33 ILD PU for roughly 3' hip region). It's not rocket science. IMO, this is how latex mattresses should me constructed. Being able to vary the sides is nice, but offering variable support for various regions more important. In fact, I would bet that a king mattress consisting of: 10 strips of 3" x 14" x 80" and 2 strips of 3" x 10" x 80" of 44,36,and 28 (allows offset of latitudinal cracks between layers) topped by 2" of kingsize 28 ILD would be comfortable for almost everyone wtithout a lot of shipping. The 14" by 80" could have split side ILDs with factory glue seams for even more flexibility. Just keep the hips and shoulders happy--the ILD of the lower leg core is not very important so the "extra" ends up there. Containing it all within a nonstretch bottom and sides, with a stretch top cover would probably be sufficient (maybe with 3" deep cross support baffles at knees and nipples (24" and 28" from head and toe) for lowest level), though could eventually be spray glued. Zoned mattresses along these lines are available, but the ones I've heard of are pre-glued." Update: It works. Twin 3", 36 ILD (actually around 33) in place in hip region. 1" Overstock convoluted latex brings it up to roughly 3" in shoulder and lower leg. 2 layers of 1" mated Overstock convoluted covers everything. The spine stays straight and parallel to floor. Very comfortable, though probably could use a bit more soft depth for shoulders (another 3" layer of soft). The convoluted eventually will be replaced with better quality latex. Hips can probably use 44 for its additional 3" layer. Final depth will be around 8". NO lower back issues. I would encourage anyone experiencing problems with latex to try arranging materials sideways, folding, etc.. Sleep on it. No need to cut at this stage. Can even remove sofa seating PU cushions to access additional materials for testing. |
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My opinion obviously is that zoning works and helps, and that will be better than a single ILD layer. Whether you will find that dunlop comfortable, or 2" of 22-28-22 enough is an individual issue. I doubt you could go wrong with it. 28 is med/soft but can always add 1" of soft latex (Brylane had 1" toppers for @$60 a while back--may have again). If soft enough but not enough differential between hips/shoulders, instead of 1" can next buy a 2" 36 or 40 ILD twin and a 2" 20 ILD twin. Run the high ILD under midsection, and split the 20 ILD lengthwise for shoulders and lower leg. You will have factory edges to mate w/ the twin piece, with cut edges at head and toe. 4" of total depth. Solving back pain issues is well worth the time and $. FULL DISCLOSURE: I explored latex mattresses originally because I have an ancestral full tester bed sized between a king and queen, with cut out corners. Not only was it $$$ for a quality, custom made mattress, but once made there was no guarantee that I would find it comfortable longer term. Latex offered easy customization, and longevity. Standard latex configurations did not work (back aches in morning) so I experimented for a month sleeping on floor with different folds (had 25/36/44 to play with). Still wasn't sure so sent everything back w/in month. Restarted recently after buying the 36 ILD twin to go with my accumulated pile of 1"king latex toppers for experimentation. This is working. I still intend to go full latex, but others not in same predicament I'm in can go firm coil w/ personally configured latex topper (whether zoned or not), and still end up with something better than any available, off-the-rack traditional mattress, IMO. |
| Do you think it would make any sense to create a sort of "zoned foundation" by adding either a layer of plywood (say a half inch) or thicker slats to the middle section (crosswise) of our slat bed, in effect raising up the hip area so that it stays more in alignment with my upper back? Anyone ever try something like this? |
| I doubt slats/plywood would make enough difference, though might depending on foundation set-up (sometimes hip support can be increased by piece of 1/4" masonite between mattress/boxspring). Raising midsection also worth trying. Who says beds have to be flat. There are no rules. Experiment. |
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mccldwll, Thank you for sharing your experiment with us and how it is working for you. I always enjoy reading your posts. I think they should make latex for a queen bed in 6 pieces per layer so that everyone can zone their latex. So far I am most comfortable with 1" of natural latex over 36 ILD over 44 ILD over 44 ILD. I still wish my shoulders had 1/2" more inch of comfort but the rest of me loves this over a slat box. I want to try out the 1.5" natural latex topper again that I have not used for over 1 week to see how it is over a 44 ID over a36 ILD over a 44 ILD I just wish I could cut each split latex core (two per each layer with three layers under the topper that is not split) into thirds so I could experiment with the zoning. But for now, the latex bed is so much more comfortable than my rock hard Posteuropedic bed that had no padding at all and was too hard on my pressure points but I had no back pain but just moved way too much from side to side all night. I do not move much at all now and I do love waking up with no stuffed nose and breathing all night without having to take allergy medicine. Dave was nice enough to send me a plush extra soft latex pillow that he cut a little bit too flat at 4.5" for me. I need my head to sink in at 4.5" not start at that height and sink in. So far I like my Overstock Pillow the best and sleep well on it despite wishing it was 5.5" high and not 6" high in the center. I do love the plus feel and I am sure I would have loved the Talalay Latex low profile 5.5" plush standard pillow if they did not stop making it. |
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That's exactly why Leggett-Platt created the adjustable bed. The best thing about staying in a hospital is being able to move that mattress up or down. Then we you go home, you miss being able to elevate it at either end. The only time I wasn't too happy about a hospital bed was after I had my twins in '76. I had to get up and use the hand crank at the foot of the bed if I wanted to move the mattress. :( I honestly think that if I had an adjustable mattress, a lot of my back pain issues would be resolved. In fact, I might consider this for my our next mattress set. Just being able to tweak it minimally can really make a difference. mccldwll wrote: I doubt slats/plywood would make enough difference, though might depending on foundation set-up (sometimes hip support can be increased by piece of 1/4" masonite between mattress/boxspring). Raising midsection also worth trying. Who says beds have to be flat. There are no rules. Experiment. |
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Here's a link to a fairly technical monograph (redundant) which demonstrates not only that lumbar support works, but that several students with grant funding can chew up a lot of time confirming the obvious. Still, it's worth reading if you have back issues and you've been reading this thread. http://www.jcca-online.org/Client/cca/jcca.nsf/objects/jcca-v49-2-096/$file/jcca-v49-2-096.pdf While my zoning has concentrated on firming up the hip region for side sleepers with a uniform firmer ILD, 39" transverse placement, it's clear that altering the latex density (firmness) or height in upper thigh/hip/waist respectively would be even better. The idea is to evenly distribute the pressure over that entire region. |
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Wow, this sounds somewhat complicated or maybe I'm just too tired right now to grasp it 100%. Let me see if I get what you've got here: So your hip region is slightly lower in height than the legs and shoulders, and the hip region is firmer, right? What do you mean by "Overstock" convoluted? Is that a name brand, or ? Where do you get this "Overstock convoluted latex"? Does convoluted mean that it is cut into ridges like cheap foam toppers, or what? And you have 2 inches of topper over everything? I would think 2" might be too much for an overall topper...? 1 and 1/2" might be better, or just 1"? I say this because I have sometimes found that if I put too much topper on top my lower back hurts... What ILD is this overstock topper you have? Is it Talalay or ? (Sorry, you may have made this clear in another post that I did not read, since I am just coming into this forum after not having been here for 4 years... I'd appreciate your patience with my questions until I get up to speed...) |
| I really feel that zoning is the way to go to have a perfect bed. |
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This is what my mattress guy says. When I complained initially of lower back pain, he said his wife has the same problem with lumbar support. So he gave me those thin sheets of PU foam. I'm talking VERY thin as maybe a half an inch. He showed me how to layer them in a certain way and where to put them within my mattress on top of my latex. Or use them under a topper. I tried it, but I'm not sure if that was my answer. That was last year. I'm keeping them around just in case. He said that he is constantly experimenting with his mattress. His wife's, as well. One thing for sure, he can honestly say that he's tried just about every configuration you can think of. And, his assistant manager also experiments with ILDs and latex/PU foam combinations. He had a bad shoulder awhile back, so he found the need to soften up the zone under that area. I should go back in and start asking about Dunlop and ask about Talalay and if it does, indeed, cause "pushing back" when it's firmer. After I bought my mattress I kind of felt like a pest because I wasn't feeling the firm support I wanted. So they changed out my springs and gave me another layer of latex. But, I sure didn't want to wear out my welcome! :-) Lynn2006 wrote: I really feel that zoning is the way to go to have a perfect bed. |
| Do pick his brain and report back. If he knows how happy you are with his expertise and product, and that you are "spreading the word" online, he won't consider you a pest, but an asset. |