Zoning Queen: Top 30" - 2" 19 ILD Sleep like a Bear lates Bottom 60"- 2" 19 ILD Foam by Mail - Love after 5yrs, 12 mattresses, 40 toppers!
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Hi Thanks to all who labor to help the rest of us find a night's sleep. I am a 60 YO male, 170 pounds, 60% side and 40% back sleeper with lower back pain. I am a restless sleeper, toss and turn, and cannot stand heat, so those factors ruled out memory foam. Being old with no muscle covering my shoulders and hips any more, when sleeping on my side I need just enough padding (latex) to accommodate those pressure points. But when I lay on my back, soft enough for shoulder/hip meant too soft to support my butt when sleeping on my back. During the night, my body would apparently sense my butt "falling" and hold it up... and I would crawl out of bed with aching lower back lumbar pain. I have chased the problem for five years.. probably $5000 worth of mattresses (12, but numerous swaps with each purchase) and 40 toppers and pads from 2" memory foam 3 or 4 times trying to get away from the heat... slow response.... to all kinds of combinations... vertical... of different density ILD of latex. Here was the Duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..... solution: the top (toward head and shoulders) 30 inches of the bed is 2 inches of Sleep Like a Bear Talalay Talatech 19 ILD, (soft, but enough to support my shoulders and avoid the point support pressure), and the bottom (butt and feet) 60 inches of the bed covered with 19 ILD, dense, supportive 2 inch Latex topper from Foam by Mail. The 19 ILD from FBM is very dense, even though it is advertized as "soft". In another post, I compare the two and estimate that the SLAB Talatech must be only 60% as dense... less supportive, of course, but 40% softer. After years of experimentation with mostly Simmons beautyrest... firm, plush, pillow top and then several others, I tried to S&F "entry level" and bough an equivalent to t the Camdenhurst luxury plush (available at mattress firm) ... firm which can be bought at CCmattress.com in their equivalent. Quite firm for a plush, I thought it was soft enough, but then had some aches because of lack of hip/shoulder give bending the spine and numbness at hip/shoulder. Back to the latex pads. 2" "soft" Floam by Mail Latex helped, but was still quite firm, and didn't give enough. AS everyone may have learned, for those of us especially with lower back pain, you need support under the hips.. as firm as you can stand, interlinked mattress better than indvidually pocketed coil. The trick at the comfort layer is to have just enough soft so you don't bottom too hard on the firmer next support, and that none of it allows your back to sag. Doubly difficult for heavier person who sleeps side or back. My next to last stab was 1 " Talatech Talalay 19 ILD Soft from Sleep like a bear. Shoulder and hip were now fine on my side, (on top of a firmish plush mattress..., if you put yours on a firm mattress you might need more thickness...etc.) but sleeping on my back... my butt sagged and woke up with lumbar pain. The 1" 19 ILD was all packed and ready to be swapped for firmer pad when the light bulb went off: fold the 2" soft for upper 30" (Head) .... and the firmer, denser Foam by Mail 19 ILD (the industry needs better standards or more honesty) for the bottom 60 inches... feet. To do this, you will need a queen sized 2" 19 ILD from Foam by mail which you will cut to fit the 60x60 lower 2/3 of your queen mattress. I used sharp scizzors, and yes, it is tough on the hands to do that.' For the top 30 x 60, you can buy a 2" thick 19 ILD Talatech twin and cut it down. There is no problem wth the "joint"... the pads are held in place by your mattress pad and you won't even know the joint is there. For me this was fabulous, the end of a long, agonizing expensive trail. One other comment, which I will post so that the title can be picked up: most people say you cant "firm" a soft mattress, can only soften a firm mattress. While that is generally true, a firm topper can "bridge" and reduce the sagging effects of a softer mattress... by layering a softer top layer on firmer base layer. At some point price wise you will be better off investing in the new mattress, but should also consider buying firm new mattress .... less expensive because it doesn't have the expensive latex comfort layer .... and choosing and installing your own latex topper comfort layer... and the combination will last a lot longer than a factory mattress, most of which have comfort layers that will have body impressions in a few short years. My combo here had some firming/bridging effect: the fairly firm, supportive 19 ILD from Foam by Mail feels like it has more firmness and less give than the mattress did by itself. Visualize a sheet of plywood placed over soft mud to understand the concept of "bridging". Overstock sells a bridging product called Rejuvenator... think Sealy or Serta .... approx 1.5" of firm memory foam and 2.5% of very firm base foam that does this pretty well, if you like a very firm feel and can live with the response qualities of memory foam and the heat. At any rate, I can now sleep, thanks and good luck to all! |
Re: Zoning Queen: Top 30" - 2" 19 ILD Sleep like a Bear lates Bottom 60"- 2" 19 ILD Foam by Mail - Love after 5yrs, 12 mattresses, 40 toppers!
| i have found latex to sleep hotter than foam...just saying |
Re: Zoning Queen: Top 30" - 2" 19 ILD Sleep like a Bear lates Bottom 60"- 2" 19 ILD Foam by Mail - Love after 5yrs, 12 mattresses, 40 toppers!
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Yes, zoning is a good idea, especially to get it softer under the shoulders while keeping it firmer under the rest of the body. That is the way I like it as well. The FBM is probably firmer than 19 ILD, according to some people that have bought from them. You can also by custom size pieces of Talatech from foamonline. One idea is to buy the topper of the right firmness for below the shoulders, cut out a piece at the shoulders, and replace that cut out piece with a softer custom piece of blended Talatech. It might also help to cut of the top and totally remove the junky foam they put in. Why doesn't any manufacturer just sell an innerspring with a few good inches of latex and/or zoned latex? Maybe they do I haven't run accross it. This message was modified Jan 23, 2010 by sandman
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Re: Zoning Queen: Top 30" - 2" 19 ILD Sleep like a Bear lates Bottom 60"- 2" 19 ILD Foam by Mail - Love after 5yrs, 12 mattresses, 40 toppers!
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Sandman: Because then people wouldn't have to buy new mattresses every 5 years. There are going to be more options opening up, the industry is starting to pay attention to frustrated customers and dealers like me. Up until now I have actually suggested to higher ups in the S brand companies that they should really start doing something like that now before it is too late for them. Because it never has happened I ended up going to a smaller family run mattress company to get exactly that done. And now I have been invited to come and check out the new Natura coil beds this year at the Vegas furniture show. I don't know for sure what they are going to be like of course but I think I am right to assume that the upholstery layers will basically just be latex (probably blended to keep the cost reasonable) and probably quilted with wool. |
Re: Zoning Queen: Top 30" - 2" 19 ILD Sleep like a Bear lates Bottom 60"- 2" 19 ILD Foam by Mail - Love after 5yrs, 12 mattresses, 40 toppers!
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You are probably right, they want to the mattress to wear out quickly so you have to buy a new one. That is the only reason I have been able to think of as well. However, they don't even last 5 years. Most seem to lose their support quickly. Of course, that leaves the door open for someone else to come in with a better product. Maybe there are not enough customers willing to pay the premium for latex? I am not sure why it would cost that much more. You can buy 3" of latex $400 or less, retail. I would much rather pay $1200 for a innerspring with 3" of latex rather than $8-900 for one with 3" of garbage. |
Re: Zoning Queen: Top 30" - 2" 19 ILD Sleep like a Bear lates Bottom 60"- 2" 19 ILD Foam by Mail - Love after 5yrs, 12 mattresses, 40 toppers!
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Shovel, Thanks for the info. I have been working on that same theory for over a year now with my O-stock toppers. The 1 1/2" first layer was like your 19ILD firm Dunlop, I would say my piece was also 50% firmer than the 24ILD talalay piece they later sent. I mentioned on another thread their latex has flaws (some minor, some major) and seems to be a grab bag. But it is cheaper and I have not wasted as much money as I would have on the full price latex pieces from other places. My mistake was cutting a twin in half (I was buildinga queen size bed and used twin size toppers as I don't like glue and would rather move smaller pieces around) and then laying it at the top half the mattress, so that made it 20" wide, which was fine for the shoulders, but when I tried alternating pieces for the hip, firmer in that area I couldn't get the exact spot, it would end up with the two different pieces in my hip area. So your method I am sure would work. I now have a firm layer of 1 1/2" latex at the bottom (over a firm spring mattress, hard) and 1 1/2 medium firm over that, then 1" 20ILD (Brylane Homes latex), and 1" memory foam (still not sure if I am keeping that). My hips feel wonderful now, but my shoulders are not as happy, but adjusting. It has only been a week now, so I may do your theory and buy another twin from Sleeplikeabear. The problem is I have 1 1/2" layers now, they only sell 1" or 2" increments. I am happy you found a solution and shared it with us. The shoulders are a problem, and the hips need firm layering, not soft. Been there and done that. Is it possible for you to post pictures if you have any of how the latex looks in layers? Still having trouble visualizing it. I believe you have 2" of the firm stuff at bottom, no layering there; the top layer you have 1" of soft at the head of the bed 30x60", the rest is firm latex. Do I have it correct? This message was modified Jan 23, 2010 by Leo3
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Re: Zoning Queen: Top 30" - 2" 19 ILD Sleep like a Bear lates Bottom 60"- 2" 19 ILD Foam by Mail - Love after 5yrs, 12 mattresses, 40 toppers!
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Leo, if you go to foamonline, you can order custom size pieces of Talatech latex of different ILDs (at least they told me it was Talatech by Latex International). So, you could get 1.5" by whatever. I have not bought for them, so not sure how it would work in practice. You can price it on their website to see if it will be cheaper. I would also call to verify what the ILDs are, because the ordering system only says, soft, soft/medium, etc. This message was modified Jan 23, 2010 by sandman
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Re: Zoning Queen: Top 30" - 2" 19 ILD Sleep like a Bear lates Bottom 60"- 2" 19 ILD Foam by Mail - Love after 5yrs, 12 mattresses, 40 toppers!
| Thanks Sandman I will check them out. |
Premature victory report... all relevant, but am concluding I can't have both back and side sleep perfect. :-((
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Hi Folks, Second night on my zoned masterrpiece wasn't as good as first night. I woke with some back pain, though not as much as before, previous tries. I must conclude that most of my problem is sleeping back and side .... and not being able to stand memory foam which is the only product that can accommodate both with support. I have to have really firm on my back, because the minute my back senses my butt going down, it works to hold it up.... the reason for ;pain in the morning. But I also need soft when I sleep on my side to accommodate supporting 170 # on about 4 square inches of cheesy old body mass. Obviously, the previous night I must have slept on my side on the softer mattress... zoned properly for side sleep. It worked. Equally obviously, last night I slept on my back... on the soft mattress configured for side sleep. The S&F Cambridge lux plush was pretty close to right on for back sleep... might try a 1" Foam By Mail (claimed soft 19 but more like medium 28) topper, last stab, and be able to zone it with the 1" of soft Sleep like bear talatech 19.... for just a slight tweak, but realize I must choose.. or go to the "Dark Side" of memory foam. The Serta (or Sealey?) Rejuvenator from Overstock was pretty close for me except the comfort layer was too shallow. Haeven't tried 1" of latex on top of it. Again, it is 1.5 inches of very firm mem foam bonded to 2.5 inches of very firm block Poly foam. That topper would really "bridge" a soft bed fairly well... I have tried it on a soft bed... and maybe with latex on top it might be a solution. Good luck. Paul |
Re: Zoning Queen: Top 30" - 2" 19 ILD Sleep like a Bear lates Bottom 60"- 2" 19 ILD Foam by Mail - Love after 5yrs, 12 mattresses, 40 toppers!
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Okay, you lost me. I thought this was working for you. It had only been one night? Oh no. Still is it 4" total layers? Do you have 4" of the firmer FBM only at the lower section, and top 1/3 is 4" of all 19ILD soft? I am having the same problem, I found 3" good for my back, but lousy for my hips. So I either can make the mattress good for the back, but lousy for side sleeping. Someone here told me that may 88% happy is good enough, I think that is what I have to be happy with. I have been using 1" memory foam and then I end of removing it after I can't stand to be hot. |
Re: Zoning Queen: Top 30" - 2" 19 ILD Sleep like a Bear lates Bottom 60"- 2" 19 ILD Foam by Mail - Love after 5yrs, 12 mattresses, 40 toppers!
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Try the thing Dr Oz suggested..... Something wrapped around the waist while you sleep. I had a perfect sleep on memory foam the other night and I still can't believe it. Wasn't the same as the next night and i doubt it ever will be. I was so tired I finally slept. I should stop with the beds and try hormones!? |