Mattress Forum

Oh, you shouldn't have said that! :-)

It's not clear what type of mattress you have.. innerspring?  And it's principle fault... core support or surface comfort?  Try the mattress on the floor, if the foundation is suspect.

The difference in your two body profiles may make one solution difficult.  Especially difficult if you are trying to fix something unfixable with the original mattress such as core support.

It seems to me that your 1" or 2" layers tried or proposed are all on the soft side (except the 32 ILD but it's only 2" and barely firm), which suggests you are trying to adjust surface comfort.  Yet side sleeping and sore hips suggest you really want/need to fix deeper core support/response.

Another big issue... king size experiments can be costly... if the core response of your 7 year old mattress is the problem... it might be time to move on.  And don't overlook two twins if necessary to satisfy diverse needs.

LI Talatech (blended) Talalay Latex ILD Scale
o  14 super plush
o  19 plush
o  24 soft
o  28 medium
o  32 firm
o  36 extra firm/base core
o  40,44 super firm/base core

For reference, three 3" layers of 28-36-44 makes a pretty good Latex mattress for man, minus a little surface cush.  36-36-44 makes it very firm.  You can still push down on it, but it's very firm when you lay out on it.  Reduce the firmness of the core layers for a smaller, lighter women, such as 28-32-36.  Adding 2-3" of 20-24 topper would add the surface cushion some desire. The soft ILDs are for surface pressure relief.

GK

Hopefully that helps clarify :)

So, if it *is* the top 5.5" of foam that has softened and body set and allowed your bodies to sag and strain, your options are to rebuild it with equivalent or better matterials, or replace the mattress.  I did not read the other thread, but from what is posted here, you have not rebuilt it completely and you have used some pretty thin soft layers.  Hence, the post-op mattress is too firm and does not have deep enough contouring support to relieve pressure at your heavier bearing points... shoulders and hips.  Perhaps the king size cost kept your approach too conservative.

If I were going to rebuild the mattress, I would replicate the structural intent of the original layers, more or less, but probably try something like a thin closed-cell membrane platform on the springs, then 3" of blended 32-36 Talalay Latex, topped with 2-3" of blended 24-28 Talalay Latex.  I would error on the side of firm, knowing that I could add a softer topper, although this is not cost efficient.  And since this is a king size investment in Latex, I would anticipate and plan for migrating the investment forward into a entirely Latex mattress.  The downside to this proposal for me is that a king size Latex mattress is more than I need and want to invest in, so experimenting is not appealing.

If you had the original foam, you could send a bundled swatch to the foam supplier and ask them to suggest the Latex layers to replace it.

It's either buy a new mattress or put some serious layers back on those springs, imo.  It's unfortunate that it's the mattress industry that put you in this pridicament, and which makes buying a new mattress nearly as objectionable as experimenting with what you have.

GK

All of my latex is talalay.  Dunlop will tend to feel firmer.   I am not convinced that the FBM is real talalay, or at least the process is quite different from LI.

Of course, this assumes your coils are in good shape and fairly firm.  Hard for me to judge that.

GK -- we definitely were conservative in our approach -- you are right that it is costly to experiment with king size! We didn't save any of the foam -- it was so broken down I'm not sure there was anything useful about it. The whole mattress industry is so frustrating!

We put the cuddlebed back on last night -- my shoulder is better -- but my hips hurt a bit. So my thinking is we need more supportive softness. 

Thanks for chiming in Sandman -- where would you recommend I get my next inch or so of latex? Would you go with SLAB or someplace else? Any sources I'm missing? Where did you get your 5 lb MF? Sorry for all the questions!  You know we were initially trying to copy you with our set up  (we used to have the 2" of MF and I was hoping ours would work as well) -- it was good for a little bit. I think (hope) we just need a little more to get it right. 

 

We put the cuddlebed back on last night -- my shoulder is better -- but my hips hurt a bit. So my thinking is we need more supportive softness. 

More supportive softness might come from 19ILD talalay and/or good memory foam.  The unusual thing is that the 2" memory foam felt hard on your hips.   That would be unusual for me, so perhaps your sensitivies are different.  Although, maybe it just the brand of memory foam.

The 5lb memory foam is Sensus, which I bought at Overstock.  Last time I looked they no longer sell it (at least 1").   Sleeplikeabear is one of the few (or only?) places that has 1" 19ILD Latex International talalay.   The 5.3lb memory foam I got at foamorder.  I actually prefer that to the Sensus, but it did have a pretty strong odor when new.

I prefer at least 1" of memory foam.  I have trouble being as comfortable on all latex foam.  Although I generally find 2" of memory foam right on top as too soft, unless the unless it is on top of the old style traditional innerspring.

Anyway, I only arrived at my current destination by plenty of experimentation.  Not always fun and cheap, but I doubt I current have found something off the shelf that I like as much.   Even how you layer the same pieces of foam will make a difference. 

My coils and support needs are probably different than you, so hard to make any definitive recommendations.

So for now, your setup is springs, then 32 ILD latex, then 20 ILD latex (from FBM), and then the Cuddlebed? (You took the memory foam off?)

You might need more medium-soft cushion there -- something as a transition between the Cuddlebed and the FBM latex. (I have one inch of the FBM 20 ILD, and it is quite dense and more like 28-30 ILD. I bought it for that reason, actually, so I could either use it over my springs after the [failed] mattress surgery or cut it up for zoning.)

I took a risk by buying the 22 ILD topper from Arizona Premium Mattress -- in theory, not a smart move because it's not returnable, and I had plenty of anxiety about it; but it turned out to be great -- a nice combo of softness & support for me. That said, I'd recommend that you stick with a vendor that allows topper returns, which would be SLAB or SleepEZ.

Maybe 1.5" of the SleepEZ topper? (Cheaper than a 2" piece from them or from SLAB, and a leeeetle bit more substance than a 1" piece.) If you go with SLAB, I think I'd opt for the 24 ILD; I'm afraid you'd bottom out on the 19 ILD. Just a guess.

I've never slept on memory foam, so I don't have any experience with that to offer.

Sorry to hear that you are still having trouble with finding/building a comfortable mattress. It is ridiculously hard for some of us.

The 2" of MF from Costco I think is just really bad quality -- I think my hips hurt cause I wasn't aligned well -- my guess anyway. With the too firm latex, my shoulders and midback are more sore -- but I feel like I can live with it more -- it's like I'm tight and a bit achy, but not in pain -- if that makes sense. But I can't live with it long term -- and my husband is really not a fan of our current set up.

I like -- or used to like a more firm bed - now I'd say I still want firm -- but I really need some cushiness too -- stupid aging.

And I don't want to experiment -- I just want it to be right without too much money spent!  Is that too much to ask?!  

I'm still waffling between 19 and 24 ILD and 1-2" for this layer. But I'm ready to bite the bullet and make this purchase -- just really really hoping to get closer to what we need.

Sandman, one other question -- I can't remember -- do you have a special cover -- wool or other that you like?

Yep, S&F springs -- pretty decently firm -- at least I think they are. There's a thin dacron like layer over the springs and then something like a pressed felt layer. Then 2" FBM 32 ILD latex, and 1" FBM ILD 20 (supposedly!). And now the cuddlebed topper back on -- though I just can't make up my mind on it. I'm definitely not loving it. 

I'm scared to order the Arizona one and then finding out it's too thick -- of course I worry about the opposite too -- deciding I need more cushion. I did really like the Tradere 1 from Custom Comfort when my husband and I laid on it in the store. That has 1" of LI 19 in the topper. Although if you scroll over "topper core" on the left and hit enter, there's a little pull down menu and the pic is of PU foam rather than latex!  It's also a quilted topper so I know it won't feel quite the same as me just laying it on our raw latex layers. Incidentally I called and asked, and they would sell me just the quilted 1" topper and I could pick it up in their Pasadena store (10 minutes away) for.... drumroll ...

$895!!!!!! Um... NO -- I don't think so!! 

So how the heck do I decide between 19 and 24? And 1 or 2"?? I wish that I knew where the SleepEZ one came from -- they say they use a few different suppliers. Is there that much of a difference in softness between 24 ILD and the supposed 20 FBM? I thought about ordering samples -- but I just wasn't sure what feeling them would tell me vs laying on them -- my 20 feels soft enough when I just press it with my fingers. And as far as returns -- I'm not sure we'd return it unless the latex was terrible -- we would just lose so much with shipping and restocking fees (one of the vendors makes you pay for shipping both ways if you return) -- plus 20-25% restocking fees. 

And yeah I know you of all people really know how hard it is -- I think you and ... is it jimsocal? have had a million possible variations of latex and other things. It freaks me out a bit sometimes -- cause we just don't have the money to keep trying lots of different things -- we need to make this work if we buy more latex - but I've got two little kids (I can't really call my oldest little anymore -- he turns 10 next month!) and I am GRUMPY if I don't get some good sleep! 

I was happy for you when I read that at least your new bed is good enough that you aren't reading about mattress stuff all the time -- that sounds like a big improvement! :) I really need to get to thinking about organizing and decluttering too!

Thanks for adding your opinion too :)

ETA: I was looking and Arizona Premium Mattress has their 2" topper in a 22 ILD -- but LI doesn't have a 22 ILD -- again makes me worry that I'll get something I'm not expecting with the firmness. I know you are really happy with yours though. Sigh -- I might be overthinking this...