Mattress Forum

Yep, S&F springs -- pretty decently firm -- at least I think they are. There's a thin dacron like layer over the springs and then something like a pressed felt layer. Then 2" FBM 32 ILD latex, and 1" FBM ILD 20 (supposedly!). And now the cuddlebed topper back on -- though I just can't make up my mind on it. I'm definitely not loving it. 

I'm scared to order the Arizona one and then finding out it's too thick -- of course I worry about the opposite too -- deciding I need more cushion. I did really like the Tradere 1 from Custom Comfort when my husband and I laid on it in the store. That has 1" of LI 19 in the topper. Although if you scroll over "topper core" on the left and hit enter, there's a little pull down menu and the pic is of PU foam rather than latex!  It's also a quilted topper so I know it won't feel quite the same as me just laying it on our raw latex layers. Incidentally I called and asked, and they would sell me just the quilted 1" topper and I could pick it up in their Pasadena store (10 minutes away) for.... drumroll ...

$895!!!!!! Um... NO -- I don't think so!! 

So how the heck do I decide between 19 and 24? And 1 or 2"?? I wish that I knew where the SleepEZ one came from -- they say they use a few different suppliers. Is there that much of a difference in softness between 24 ILD and the supposed 20 FBM? I thought about ordering samples -- but I just wasn't sure what feeling them would tell me vs laying on them -- my 20 feels soft enough when I just press it with my fingers. And as far as returns -- I'm not sure we'd return it unless the latex was terrible -- we would just lose so much with shipping and restocking fees (one of the vendors makes you pay for shipping both ways if you return) -- plus 20-25% restocking fees. 

And yeah I know you of all people really know how hard it is -- I think you and ... is it jimsocal? have had a million possible variations of latex and other things. It freaks me out a bit sometimes -- cause we just don't have the money to keep trying lots of different things -- we need to make this work if we buy more latex - but I've got two little kids (I can't really call my oldest little anymore -- he turns 10 next month!) and I am GRUMPY if I don't get some good sleep! 

I was happy for you when I read that at least your new bed is good enough that you aren't reading about mattress stuff all the time -- that sounds like a big improvement! :) I really need to get to thinking about organizing and decluttering too!

Thanks for adding your opinion too :)

ETA: I was looking and Arizona Premium Mattress has their 2" topper in a 22 ILD -- but LI doesn't have a 22 ILD -- again makes me worry that I'll get something I'm not expecting with the firmness. I know you are really happy with yours though. Sigh -- I might be overthinking this...

Well, if you go with SLAB, and you can swing the money, you could try 1 inch of each. Or, if you're most worried about the latex being too firm (and about money), start with 1 inch of 19 ILD. Then you can see what that feels like, and fold it over and see what 2" feels like. Two 1" pieces won't feel quite the same as one 2" piece, but it'll be close.
 

SleepEZ has a great reputation on this board, so I don't think you'll need to worry about the quality of their latex, whichever supplier they use.
 

Yeah, I think there is -- at least with the stuff I have. The 20 ILD I have from FBM makes a good support layer; not as useful as a comfort layer.

I've experimented a fair amount, but nowhere near as much as Jimsocal or Paul ("shovel99" here) have. (Lucky for me.) And I definitely understand the worry about money.

It is easy to overthink all this stuff when we can't just go into a nearby store and lie on all these different types of foam to see what they feel like. Samples that are a few square inches don't help much.

As far as the 22 ILD topper from Arizona: Natural latex will generally have a range of ILDs; it's a little harder to pin down than the Talatech blended stuff.  My N3 from LI is listed as 25-29 ILD (so I think of it as 27).  The topper from SleepEZ is listed as 22-24 ILD.  My anxiety-laden gamble worked out OK for me, but I was worried about the Arizona 22 ILD stuff being too soft -- and you're worried about it being too firm.

If you're most worried about another layer of latex being too firm and/or too thick, you might be better off starting with one inch of 19 ILD. Just don't go any softer than that.

Or, if you have a wholesale foam distributor in your town, go there first and see if they have some soft poly foam. It might work better as a comfort layer. The foam wholesaler in my city has full-length samples of various poly foams, and I spent an hour or two there, a while back, lying on them. I wound up trying the 22 ILD latex instead, but this wholesaler had some pretty comfy poly foams. Or try some soft poly foam from FBM -- it'll be much, much cheaper than latex.

1) Remove the 32 ILD to evaluate how much support you need.

2)Add your memory foam Topper to asses the amount of comfort layers needed.

keep us updated.

I have a washable wool filled Natura mattress pad right on top of the the foam.   Nothing else except a sheet over that.

You might get lucky and get it right the first time.  Depends on how picky you are.

I have a slight preference for the 100% natural talalay.  Seems a bit more substantial then the blended.  The softest one at SLAB says 20-24.9, so it might be more like 22.5 on average.   Probably the same thing Catherine got. 

I decided to go with 1" increments on top so I could fine tune.   I have 1" of the 5.3 (I measured at 5.9!) MF on top over 1" of 24 (might be somewhere in 20-25 range?) 100% natural talalay over 1" 19 blended talalay.  It is possibly that would be just fine with 2" of the 20-25, but never tried it that way.

SLAB does offer returns, but you will be out shipping.  You might want to try 1" and you can then also fold in half to get a sense of what 1 more inch would be like.

It's hard!   Unfortunetly it is not a product that can just be tried and returned easily. 

 

I spoke with someone at SleepEZ today. I don't remember his name and he seemed very nice, but when I talked about the recommendations here to start small and build from there and asked him for advice, he basically said that in his experience trying to piece together beds with 1 and 2 inch pieces was not a good idea and the people who tried that were on a path to dissatisfaction with the end result. He really thought people needed 2" as a bare minimum and that 3" on top was better. Oh and the 1 and 1.5 inch toppers that they have on their website -- apparently they are getting a new website at the end of the month and aren't bothering to update/remove the sold out and discontinued items. I also had an email response from someone at Arizona Premium Mattress Co (latexmattresscompany.com). I was asking whether they had 1" toppers and he said that 2 inches was the bare minimum. In his last email I felt he was a little condescending -- but that could have just been me reading into his words. 

I just feel kind of discouraged. I cannot afford a 3" $500+ topper (almost $700 at SLAB) to fix my bed! I'm not going to go that route. And I'm here, so ultimately I think you guys who have been experimenting with layers and so kindly sharing your experiences to help the rest of us are maybe  a little more credible than the person trying to sell me a 3" expensive topper. I mentioned this board with both places and I was just a little surprised I guess that the experiences here seemed to be discounted. And I confess it makes me second myself a little bit -- wondering whether I should get the Ariaona mattress co 2" topper (the only one I can afford that's 2") -- or just go for the 1" at SLAB. Sigh.

Catherine, I realized there are 2 differnt websites for Arizona mattress. These are both the same right? mattresses.net and latexmattresscompany.com The logo looks the same -- I'm just not sure why they have the 2 different addresses with slightly different sites. 

With surgery on existing innersprings, I think 3" core purpose on the springs and 2" topper over that for cushion comfort... say 32 and 24 Talatech, for example.

The multiple websites for the same vendor is unprofessional.  They should simply toggle from old to new when its ready.

Here's a pretty good deal on a king 3" LI Talatech in a sensible topper cover... 19 or 28 ILD.  The 19 would be deep soft; the 28 would be 'medium'... could work on top/could work on springs... hard to know from here.  The choice of ILDs suggests LI is targeting the topper market with this one, not the build to taste market.  I would prefer an option for 2" 24 ILD.  Still... it's probably a quality LI topper, 3" Talatech and stretchy cover.

GK

My guess is that you need at least 2" above the 32.   I am not sure if you still plan to use the FBM 20, but you will be able to try it with and without.   So, 2" of the 22 from Arizona might work out for you.  Is it 100% natural talalay from Latex International?   My situation would probably be just fine with 2" of the 22 (instead of 1" 24 and 1" 19) and 1" of memory foam on top of that.

Certainly better pricing than SLAB.   My guess is that it won't be too soft.   You would then have the option of adding 1" above it if it is close to being right, but a little too firm.   I have found that you can definitely go too thick on memory foam.   I had a couple of 2.5" pieces of memory that both ended up being too soft to use.   With latex, an extra inch is less likely to cause a problem.

A previous poster (Mark) had a latex mattress that was too firm, and he added 3" of 24 talalay.  He was pretty happy, but still thought it a bit too firm (some might say too much "push back" from the latex).   Then he added 1" of 5lb Sensus and he was quite happy with it. 

Well, he might be right, at least partially. The problem is that we're ordering these things without being able to try them out, and these toppers are unwieldy to handle and expensive to ship back if we return them. So from that standpoint, it seems to make more sense to try an inch at a time. Unless you're able to go into one of these stores and try out the toppers, there isn't really a "best" way to order a topper (1" vs. 2" vs. 3") -- there's just a set of risks and trade-offs.

I have spent more money on toppers than on mattresses. Buying a firm mattress and "just" adding a topper is not as easy as it sounds, and the process of experimenting (with mounting expenses, and maybe achy backs) does get discouraging.

sandman wrote:

Arizona offers the 22 ILD Talalay in both blended and natural; I believe they're both from LI. I got the natural, and I like the feel of it. Not sure I could describe the difference in feel, but I think I prefer the natural to the blended (I have some of both).

It is odd that the company has two websites, and I'm not fond of some of the marketing hype on them, but the latex they sold me is very good quality, and the price can't be beat (IF you're willing to go with a no-returns vendor).

I was shocked that the topper was shipped & delivered rolled up tightly in plastic -- and only the plastic. No box. There was more than one layer of plastic, but still...  If the thing had somehow gotten cut up in transit, I'd have had steam comin' out of my ears... Luckily, it was fine. I just had to be reeeeeeally careful when cutting open the plastic.

Stacy, I hope you can figure out something that works for you & your husband. I know how tiring the search can get.

My husband ordered the 2" natural talalay topper from Arizona mattress today! The fact that Sandman and Catherine both said they preferred natural was a big sway for me since I haven't felt both to compare. I read back through some old threads and saw that Budgy also prefers natural. And I called Arizona and they said their natural topper was from LI so that helped too. The difference was only around $45 so it seemed wiser to just go ahead and spend a little bit more on something that folks with experience like better. 

Usually I stall a lot longer in making these decisions, but this time I am just so tired of researching. I know that my mileage may vary, but these 2 inches of an actual cushion layer should (I hope!) really make things better for us. And it's a LOT cheaper from Arizona than from anywhere else. We still have the cuddlebed and can always return that if we still don't prefer it and use the money toward a wool pad or towards a 5.3 pound MF topper from foamorder should we still feel the need. 

Sandman, how does this wool pad from Overstock look compared to yours? The price is certainly good for a king sized pad! Though I'm not sure who manufactures it.

Catherine -- wow -- spending more on toppers than mattress is impressive -- and I'll bet at times discouraging too. :( I sure hope you find this current mattress gives you some decent longevity -- you certainly have earned some decent sleep with all the work you went through!

Again, I am VERY grateful to you guys for sharing so freely your experiences. I will keep you posted. We live in S CA so hopefully the topper will get here fast! :)

Great! 
 

I know the feeling.

Well... turns out I was wrong about that -- I shouldn't do math in my head.

I just added everything on paper, and the mattresses (the one I bought in 2009 plus the one I just bought) do come out to be higher. But I spent more on toppers than I did on the mattress I bought in 2009, and I certainly did not expect that. And the wallet is now closed....

Neither mattress was expensive, as mattresses go... but yeah, the whole process of trial and error (and error and error and error) did get discouraging and it took up way too much time.

Hope it works for you!