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I just wanted to start another thread because there are some claims in the 'request for advice' thread that I have not found to be the case.
My iComfort Revolution is on the matching box spring, not adjustable base. I've tried the Revolution in 3 Sears stores for quite some time before purchasing. Mine feels virtually the same as all 3 in the stores. The Revolution is not a 'firm' bed. Even Serta lists it as a Plush. It is a very plush bed with quite of bit of give in the top layers of memory foam. There were some comments of a 'strong odor' coming from new iComforts. I can tell you for sure, there is no strong odor whatsoever from mine. I smelled the slightest whisp of smell from the mattress, I think. It's that faint. Less than two days after getting it, I cannot smell a thing from it. As for 'sleeping hot' issues. I have slept 2 nights in the bed. I've been wearing shorts with sheet and comforter in the bed. The house is about 65 at night. I'm not too hot in the bed (edit - see below). It might be a little warmer than the S&F conventional I just had, but I do mean only a little. Only time will tell about durability - whether or not the foam keeps its support, but so far, the support is fine. There was a claim that iComfort had something to do with Sleep Innovations. Although it may use a similar foam to a Costco/Novaform/Sleep Innovations product, the iComfort law tag states the mattress is mfrd. by Serta in Moreno Valley, CA. This message was modified Jul 19, 2011 by slpngoc
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audioinjection wrote:
Ok, I've spent about 4-5 nights on the new icomfort Revolution. I'd like to mention my experience, as well as respond to a few of your responses as well. "I'm giving up on this bed. 3 1/2 weeks, neck stiff and makes noise every morning. Pressure relieving on joints, that's the only plus. Inadeqaute support, sink in too much. Leave it to Serta to make this lineup go from Insight to Prodigy as medium, firm, ultra plush and plush. I found the same thing with the Vera Wang latex collection. Serta is off the mark, IMO." Inadequate support for your body. Works great for me. But I've witnessed my FAVORITE bed (Cloud Luxe) mis-align other people's spine, meaning that the support was WRONG for their body shape/size/distribution. I disagree that the support is "inadequate". You simply chose the wrong bed. In response to the "confusion" regarding my "claim" (I am not a scientist) that you will sleep hotter for 3 weeks due to increased circulation...... It's simple. Increased circulation to extremeties WILL raise your body's tempature. Our bodies adapt to changes in homeostasis (I hope I'm using that term correctly here....pretty sure I am) over time, depending of course on the particular change. The idea is, on your (my) old mattress my bloodflow to my arms was being cut off in my shoulders due to pressure points on my crappy, hard mattress. With the new one, my arms are getting MUCH more circulation, resulting in warmer extremities. After a few weeks, my body will "learn" this to be "normal" and will start to slightly restrict bloodflow to my arms, since my body will no longer be in fear of my (what used to be "normal") lack of blood circulation to my arms. The user response of "Heat is due to lack of circulation" is simply false.
"As to 'overthinking,' how about the industry takes a good hard look at the 'overspending' that is required to even test one of these mattresses in field conditions over enough time to know whether or not there are problems?" and "The only solution is for mattress manufacturers and distributors is to start taking consumer complaints seriously, and create better products to resolve the real problems." I can't believe I'm seriously addressing these "responses" above, as they are so obviously biased and angry, I will attempt to give WeeWillyWinky an unbiased look into buisiness101. First off, I ask consumers (namely American consumers) to take just a bit of responsibility for their purchases. For example, if you do your research and take time listening, and learning about your mattress, odds are you'll get it right the first time. In 5 months, I have yet to process a comfort exhange. I work very closely with customers to find a mattress to fit their needs. Many will fight me on this, but I will not sell a mattress to someone who barely tries it. It WILL end up in more headaches than my commision is worth. That said, my customers get a 100 day (damn near 3 MONTHS!!) comfort-EXHANGE program. I have heard of comfort-return policies also, which is ridiculous. If you buy a bed, sleep on it, return it, and buy elsewhere.....you are a selfish person. That company paid delivery crews, gas and insurance to get your mattress to you. The salesperson was paid commision, which will now come OUT of his/her paycheck with a return. And the company (hopefully local, or you are hurting your economy) lost hudreds more on the shipping costs, and the loss on selling that mattress "used". There is no reason you can't find your perfect mattress in 2 tries or less. Otherwise, watch a documentary about poor people in 3rd-world countries who sleep on dirt floors, starving and dying of de-hydration.....then tell me how that bed feels. And WeeWilly.....do you REALLY think that manufacturers DO NOT consider consumer complaints when they build mattresses? If so, you can now dismiss your future opinions from this forum discussion, because you don't understand the first thing about business. As if EVERY new development in the bedding industry comes from......space? Heresay? Magic? Dreams? Maybe a 6 yr old won a contest to design the next multi-million dollar full production run of mattresses? " I don't know about the increased blow flow / feeling warmer sensation in bed. It seems the excess warmth is due to lack of heat dissipation because it is not going away, the excess warmth seems permanent. In regards to refunds, Sears policy was if you return a bed within 30 days, you are charged a 15% restocking fee and pickup. I would have been fine with that had I known the iComfort, which was advertised with a 120 'risk free in home trial' would not be returnable in any way after exchangin to it. As for the Stearns and Foster Hearthstone Luxury Plush (the entry level model, but still $1,125 twin XL set), the bed positively firmed up in the comfort layers for me. I laid on that bed so many times in the store, sometimes for 20 minutes straight, and I liked it. The feel at home by morning time was notably firmer than ever in the store. If a retailer is selling a mattress like this, then they better offer some kind of return policy. I don't expect to get 100% of money back. Nor do I like to do returns. Returns are a hassle for everyone involved. But as a customer, I want a bed that feels just like in the store, and I want it to maintain that comfort through the night. This message was modified Aug 11, 2011 by slpngoc
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I just want to say something I was told by a local mattress mfrg. owner. His name is Mr. Veasy. he owns Select Sleep Mattress in the SF Bay Area, a small local mfr. He says he owned (or very high up) in Spring Air Co years ago. Anyhoo, Mr. Veasy told me (claimed) that retailers charge a large fee (something like $5,000) per mattress to the mfrs. for every store. He also mentioned there are other retailer fees, something called 'Spiffs' that are charged to the manufacturers. And other fees too. If all true, it sounded like large chunks of money are raked in by retailer from manufacturers. Plus, apparently there are large mark ups. If all true, no wonder the prices are high and the materials perhaps are not all that for the price. It is business though. And if mattress making was easy, many would be doing it at home. This message was modified Aug 11, 2011 by slpngoc
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slpngoc wrote: I just want to say something I was told by a local mattress mfrg. owner. His name is Mr. Veasy. he owns Select Sleep Mattress in the SF Bay Area, a small local mfr. He says he owned (or very high up) in Spring Air Co years ago.
Anyhoo, Mr. Veasy told me (claimed) that retailers charge a large fee (something like $5,000) per mattress to the mfrs. for every store. He also mentioned there are other retailer fees, something called 'Spiffs' that are charged to the manufacturers. And other fees too. If all true, it sounded like large chunks of money are raked in by retailer from manufacturers. Plus, apparently there are large mark ups. If all true, no wonder the prices are high and the materials perhaps are not all that for the price. It is business though. And if mattress making was easy, many would be doing it at home. |
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"2. In the case of these major bed companies with their insanely high profit margins and lack of transparency contributing to customer confusion, the last 40 years has not been about making the best possible product, its been about charging the most possible for a product that is not worth the asking price. "
Customers and their demands help create the industry and products most commonly available. They don't just appear out of no where and become the "norm" for no reason. In this industry specifically, customers claim to want one thing, but go for the other. The best example is markup/discounts. OF COURSE we all say we want low prices and no-haggling. But who wins time and time again? The shady store that tells a customer they are getting a "$2,000 bed for only $800!!". As with Tempurpedic, who controls their pricing.....customers ALWAYS demand an extra discount. Getting the same low-price isn't enough. So customers want quality. Low prices. Durability. Made in America. Huge warranties. Green products/manufacturing. Free delivery (yeah, we'll pay 2 guys $13 per hour to bring it to your home. Plus the $50 in gas for the big truck, and we'll also insure your home. And it'll be free. No, we won't work it in the price anywhere......). Free financing. Free 10+ return policy. Etc. Etc.
I don't like the industry either. I WISH I could see the same prices everywhere on all products. I wish I didn't have to "haggle" to get a sale. But who does want to? You do. The customer does. You want everything, for nothing, just like most fat, lazy 'Mericans. Not saying I'm innocent either. Sure I've only been selling mattresses for 5 months, but that doesn't negate the YEARS of furniture management experience I've also had. (Yeah, you don't know me just from a forum post, but thanks for being so quick to judge!!)
I have no agenda here. I just wanted to share my experience as a revolution customer, as well as some insight from my perspective. As with most forums, this has turned into an internet tough-guy shouting match, and I will no longer partake. I'll check back to see what the deal is with that broken box, but I'm not taking part in the shouting match that this has become. Especially since so many here have the ONLY CORRECT answer to how memory foam beds hold/dissipate heat. Seriously, read the comment flow above.....I never stated to be ALL-KNOWING, or correct. I simply stated my view and experience, which was promptly mis-understood. And Wee, I did mis-understand what circulation you were referring to (blood vs air). But before trying to make me sound like an ass whilst patting yourself on the back amidst your HIGH horse, remember that most people use the term "air-flow" when dealing with beds, and not "air-circulation". But alas, I'm not alone in using "Glib Insults and patronizing comments", am I then?
I must say that despite some aggression, the utter "know-it-all" responses to my opinions ("unfortunately I've encountered numerous salesmen of your type"), and people putting words in my mouth..... the original poster here has been very cordial and professional. I at no time meant for my "overlapping" comments (such as "customers claim to want one thing, but go for the other"....) to apply directly to you. It has been a pleasure reading your original opinions, and the experiences thereafter. Anyone considering buying a Revolution will benefit greatly from this post and the interactions within. I'm still curious to see if a new foundation helps your lack of support issue. But the Revolution will always be quite plush.
And Wee..... way to attack me personally without any real info or insight on the situation. I'm obviously a vindictive salesman (I repeat your words "unfortunately I've encountered numerous salesmen of your type"), and most likely a liar and a theif as well. I'm not a musician, an artist, a lover, nor do I enjoy spending my free time and energy working with non-profit organizations to better my community. I just register as a new user to a bed-forum and spread lies all day for no money. Yep. Well, enjoy your time on the forums, as I'm betting you don't get much time outside in the real world. But that's just my guess, I won't pretend to know.
And once again.....much respect to slpngoc for an un-biased look into his/her sleep experience. |
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audioinjection wrote And Wee..... way to attack me personally without any real info or insight on the situation. I'm obviously a vindictive salesman (I repeat your words "unfortunately I've encountered numerous salesmen of your type"), and most likely a liar and a theif as well. I'm not a musician, an artist, a lover, nor do I enjoy spending my free time and energy working with non-profit organizations to better my community. I just register as a new user to a bed-forum and spread lies all day for no money. Yep. Well, enjoy your time on the forums, as I'm betting you don't get much time outside in the real world. But that's just my guess, I won't pretend to know.
And once again.....much respect to slpngoc for an un-biased look into his/her sleep experience. |
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The whole deep discounting thing was not always this way. Customers didn't ask for the industry to run this way, the retailers created the expectation that people should get 50% off on everything by illegitimately marking up prices only to mark them down and 'save' people a lot of money. I agree people sometimes want to much and expect too much, but as the old saying goes, you give someone an inch, they will want a mile. The problem with opinions on how things work is that even though people feel they have a right to their opinions, they do not have the right to express them without criticism. If they feel they have the right to say them that is okay, but we also have to accept the fact that with expressing opinions (especially in a discussion forum) it will also inevitably open up those opinions to criticism and or praise. I am sorry if i upset you in anyway, however it is a well known fact that perspiring is how we cool our selves off, there is a reason the humidex plays a big role in how hot we 'feel', this is the same in the bedroom. When humidity levels become high, perspiring becomes useless as the air is already saturated. There probably is a modicum of truth about circulation or even just being on a soft mattress that has more contact with the body will make someone feel cosier. I repeatedly bring this up because perhaps the OP would not have had an issue with heat if they had a woolen mattress protector instead of a plastic one. However this is a moot point as clearly it is not supportive enough for them anyway and the mattress will only get softer with use. This is not an internet tough guy match, but you are the one spouting your credentials and you quite literally said "I'm just like you, but with a bit more mattress knowledge and a better discount!! " If it feels like a yelling match maybe its because you use a lot of exclimation points. No one is attacking you, but clearly you did something to make others feel defensive. You are extremely wrong to assume that you have more mattress knowledge than posters on this forum. The vast majority of posters here are on the consumer front but their are a lot of bright people here who know far more than the average consumer and the average salesperson. |
| I'm sorry Mr. A, but your first two posts were so much like an advertisement that I immediately had no interest in hearing anything else you had to contribute. Your bias was obvious. While I know that budgy is in the mattress business, he brings to this forum facts and wisdom learned over the years. I have no idea what mattresses he sells or what he sleeps on. Mattress comfort is very subjective and budgy does an excellent job trying to help match people to a style of mattress that might work best for their stated needs. He rarely says "THIS ONE THIS ONE BUY IT" like you have done. If you just shut up and read, you could learn a lot that might actually help you become an informed mattress salesman. |
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Budgy, Wee, As to Audio, I read Audio's original post. To his defense, I don't see too much out of line. except I disagree one sleeps hot 3 weeks due increased circulation. That iComfort was having me hotter for good, but I was sunk pretty far into it. Sounds to me like he's into mattresses like any enthused new salesperson would be. I agree with his opinions comparing iComfort and TP's. I also appreciated his suggestion for an adjustable bed as I've checked those out too. Can't say I would want to be in mattress sales getting beaten up on price and priviledges. I've seen customers walk into Sleep Train here and start beating on a salesperson for 1/2 off the posted price. It must be brutal. Especially the long hours one must be at the store and it is very slow. I've met a lot of nice local mattress salespeople. Some of them seem misinformed, but some salespeople don't care too awfully much about technical details.
audioinjection wrote: I just wanted to respond to a few of the original posters issues, but first I should mention a bit about my background. I am in mattress sales. Only for about 5 months, but I have learned quite a bit in that time. I work for a nice local company, and am not high-pressure etc. I also just received MY iComfort Revolution today. Can't wait to sleep on it, and I'll probably report back to let you know how it's going. I mainly wanted to respond to a few points that were brought up throughout this entire thread..... Heat: With aTempurpedic/iComfort you WILL SLEEP HOT for approx 3 weeks or so. This is due to the severe increase in bloodflow/ciculation due to the pressure relief (in men, mainly in the shoulder areas). That said, your body should adjust after that period. I have yet to have an iComfort OR Tempurpedic returned for heat. Tempurpedic reports only 4% of returns due to heat, and only 3% within our company. Beds in general will be returned for heat issues at about 10%. BUT, I have heard from a salesperson in our company that he wishes he had went with an icomfort over his cloud supreme because it is slightly hot. I won't be able to compare, because I've never owned a tempurpedic. iComfort mattresses "cool" you with their gel-infused memory foam, or so they claim. Tempurpedic uses an "airflow" system, and also claims that their tempur material cell-structure is more uniform, thus allowing more air to flow through. I think both are bs. A wool or latex topper could help perhaps. Wool may cool you slightly, while a latex topper may help cool AND provide some additional support. The iComfort Prodigy has this, and sounds like it would have been a better choice for the OP in this case. But you don't know until you try. Firmness: The info given above is correct. The Revolution compares most closely to the Cloud Luxe. The Supreme is a bit more firm than both. The Genius is the most firm, and the Insight is the "medium" firmness. HD Rhapsody is different, and a bit more firm than Rev/Clouds. May have been a better choice for OP, but hindsight is 20/20. Also, the brand new tempurpedic Countour series (which replaces the classic and deluxe) may be a good middle ground of softness/support. Possible Solutions for backpain: OP was good to try some diff pillows. It's all about proper spinal alignment for your particular sleeping habits. I may need a thinner pillow for my new revolution since it is rathar "plush". Our bodies are all different, but getting that spine as straight as possible with mattress AND pillow ensures that your muscles can relax properly. As mentioned, a latex topper may give you the support you need PLUS cool you down. It MAY be the cheapest fix. Or you need a more firm mattress. Also, an adjustable base would probably work also, but it more expensive. OP have you tried an adjustable base? It can really work wonders for back pain. It may be your missing puzzle-piece, and why virtually NO MATTRESS has worked for you yet.
Returns: I can understand the company sticking you with that mattress. As much as I appreciate the thorough play-by-play on your mattress, in my sales experience.....you may NEVER find the perfect mattress. Usually anyone "over-thinking" their issues this much is destined to endure an endless hunt for "perfection" which doesn't exist. Perhaps more excersize and stretching on a regular basis is the real answer, yet the mattress will always take the blame. I hope this isn't the case with you. Your review seemed much more "informative" than "neurotic" in my opinion. Regardless, the company only has so much "room" built into their retail markup to allow for returns, which is why they have a specific policy, and ALSO why the mattress "game" is so shady! Customers want low prices, free delivery and unlimited exchanges, yet complain when they find out how much their mattress was marked up from the get-go. Nothing is free, and you always get what you pay for.
I hope this may have helped a bit. I don't intend to frequent this formu, but perhaps I'll give some feedback on my revolution experience over the next few weeks. I'm pretty sure I'll love it. My old mattress sucked. This message was modified Aug 12, 2011 by slpngoc
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"So customers want quality. Low prices. Durability. Made in America. Huge warranties. Green products/manufacturing. Free delivery (yeah, we'll pay 2 guys $13 per hour to bring it to your home" I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm really not that demanding at all. All I expected was a comfortable product that would hold up longer than 5 weeks, after I paid nearly $1200 for it. It did not, and all the cozy friendliness of the salesman changed drastically when I went to return it. They tried to talk me out of exchanging it, and insisted I didn't know what I knew and saw with my own eyes, namely that this very expensive bed was sagging in the middle. I also resented the scripted replies, which all the salesmen were obviously ordered to spout, "Oh we all have that bed and we love it". Nods all around. I sent my sister-in-law in to look at another type of bed, and surprise! Suddenly all the SAME sales people owned THAT brand and loved it. Did they all change beds overnight? I know people have to sell things, and may fudge or fluff a bit (or a lot) but boldfaced lying and deception is another matter. It's insulting to be perceived as an idiot. I really doubt anyone would buy any other type of $1200 item (big screen TV, etc) then just swallow it when the item stops working after 5 weeks. I doubt anyone would tolerate having a repairman sent who tells you, "Well, the TV only stops working a few times a day, so the problem is not severe enough for us to honour our warranty and we won't give you a refund either. Tough luck, right?". I don't mind paying whatever price for a quality item, after all, you get what you pay for. It's NOT getting what I paid for that irked me. And yes, I did expect free delivery of such a pricey item that was 15 minutes from my home. The exchange bed cost me $50 delivery, so I got nothing free. |
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Anyway, to get back onto what really matters.... slpngoc - heres hoping that you have a better experience with your latex mattress :) I think lots of people are looking forward to seeing your feedback over the coming weeks. |