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PROBLEM DESCRIPTION: We're looking for a new twin mattress, probably extra long, for my 86 year old mother to use on her adjustable bed. She has had progressive spine problems for about 40 years, somewhat alleviated by the fact that she's always exercised to the extent she was able and by two back surgeries (most recent about ten years ago). Her mobility has become increasingly limited, so a comfortable bed is increasingly important. Often firm mattresses are recommended for back problems, but for her, they are miserable. Last time we shopped for a mattress she was able to get to a large mattress store, tried many, and the only one she found comfortable seemed to me about as firm as jello. She loved her jello mattress for a number of years, however. But now she says her bed feels to her as if it has rocks in it. My efforts to locate the rocks have led me to conclude that perhaps her back, very sensitive to touch, is being irritated by places where the mattress has worn unevenly over the years at the points where her adjustable bed bends. So we're searching for a new mattress, without rocks. ;] We normally rotate or flip (alternately) her mattress every time the sheets are changed and I think this has helped maintain it as comfortable for her, so we are really looking for a two sided mattress -- and, I believe, we probably want Talalay latex. We live in rural Wyoming -- and those stores within a distance she can travel seem to have gone entirely with the single sided mattress lines, so we will probably order a mattress online, unless a local store suddenly acquires something suitable. QUESTION 1: We've been considering the OMI OrganicPedic Flora (100% natural rubber Talalay latex 3 inch firm core with two inches softer latex top and bottom enclosed in quilted wool/cotton -- rated medium firm) and also the Terra. The Terra appears to be the Flora with a removable, 100% natural rubber latex, two sided, flat/contoured attachable/detachable 3 1/2 inch topper, also enclosed in quilted wool/cotton -- Terra firmness rated plush -- presumably because of the soft topper. The Terra seemed a possiblity that would make enable us to change the firm/soft property and also the smooth/contoured surface property fairly easily, not only for initial comfort, but also because the sensitivity of different areas of her back varies from time to time. Price is comparatively high, but both because she puts more mileage on her bed than most of us, and because comfort in bed is important to maintaining the limited mobility she still has, we'd be willing to spend that, if the mattress would be good for her. Does anyone have any experience with these OMI OrganicPedic mattresses? It would be especially nice to know if they worked well on an adjustable bed, but reports of any kind of experience, even showroom tryout impressions, would be helpful. QUESTION 2: After several weeks of reading posts on this forum, the favorable reports of so many about their Flobeds caused us to consider that source. Their 90 day layer exchange period is certainly a big plus for someone who is unable to try out mattresses being considered. Some things I wondered about: a) It does not appear to me that these mattresses are designed to be flippable -- is that correct? I realize that one can open the mattress cover and shuffle layers, but that is surely more complicated that rotating/flipping a mattress -- and when you are accustomed to rotating/flipping frequently . . . I wonder if that would be a problem. b) Has anyone used these on an adjustable bed? I realize that separate latex layers tend not to slide over one another readily, but I wonder whether the frequent movements of an adjustable bed might cause them to get out of alignment, develop bumps where one layer bent more and the layer above bent less as the bed went up, etc. c) If one wished to change firmness or to replace a damaged layer after the 90 period, does Flobeds sell layers individually? QUESTION 3: Does anyone have any mattress suggestions they think would be better for our situation than the Organipedic or Flobed possibilities mentioned? QUESTION 4: I realize the forum topic is mattresses, not adjustable beds, but some here do seem to know about them. She currently has a twin extra long adjustable bed that works fairly well but I'd been wondering: a) Does anyone know of a maker/model of adjustable bed that has substantial height adjustment capacity? Her current bed has none, and all we've been able to find has about 12 inches of height adjustment in the middle height range. What I wish we could find is one that could go completely down to the floor and up to something a little above standard height. She has had times where she fell or got down on the floor and it was *very* difficult to get her up -- not because she was injured but because it's hard to help her when one shouldn't put pressure on her arms, shoulders or back. We've been kidding her about needing a monorail and harness like they used for Barbaro or some other type of "Momavator" that could elevate her from the floor, but we'd been thinking that if there was an adjustable bed that went really low, it might be a serious way to deal with such situations. And the ability to raise the height to a little above standard would be useful if she had a bedfast episode, which we try to avoid but which has happened in the past. b) Does anyone know of any reason it would be inappropriate to put larger wheels on her existing adjustable bed if they could be made to fit? We currently have her bed's feet on contoured blocks (blocks that elevate the bed's four feet but don't allow them to roll off the blocks) because the tiny wheels on the bed's feet sink into the carpet and make dents and because we want the room to be Roomba-friendly so the bottom of the bed needs to be high enough for Roomba to clear. Larger wheels might make it possible to eliminate the blocks, move the bed more easily, and keep Roomba happy. Thanks for any thoughts, JLJ |
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This one has the greatest travel and lowest height I've seen http://www.colonialmedical.com/product.php?productid=18304&cat=0&page=3 They have others as well including this one which is 10 inches but less expensive and goes quite low http://www.colonialmedical.com/product.php?productid=19622 They also have cushions that protect against injury that you put on the floor beside the bed These two may be helpful sites as well http://www.electropedicbeds.com/ When I talked to them about some other stuff they were very straight up with me about their products and Which also seems to go quite low and raises 12"
Phoenix |
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I lay on the OMI terra bed and it was absolutely wonderful. Unfortunately wonderful here meant insanely expensive. The other OMI beds I lay on were also very nice but I believe also overpriced and not as nice as the Terra. While I acknowledge that their level of "organicy" (if there is such a word) is probably higher than any other manufacturer, their price definately shows it. I have done a lot of research into latex beds and I discovered that many smaller or medium size mattress manufacturers will sell direct to the public at prices lower even than Sleep EZ which in turn has lower prices than flo-beds and savvy rest. The problem with this is that most of them will make a custom bed for you but they do not have "layer exchanges" like Sleep EZ or Flo beds or savvy rest or foam sweet foam etc. so you have to be really sure you are getting the bed you want because once you have it, it's your's as ordered. I just ordered a latex bed for example with a 4" talalay core ... 3" talalay on either side ... and quilted with 1/2 inch talalay and a down like fiber and damask material on both sides (in other words 2 sided and flippable) for under $1800 including shipping (which was about $250). It was custom built to my specifications. I will report more on this when I receive it. They are called the Original Mattress Factory but they are not the same one as the Original Mattress Factory that is mentioned more often on this forum. They are a 3rd generation manufacturer. I had many lengthy conversations with Peter Duncan (couldn't believe that the president of a fairly large manufacturing business was making my bed) and told him I would be posting my results here so tell him "Phoenix mentioned you" if you choose to call him and he will look after you personally. The website is http://www.themattressfactory.com There are other places with similar value (either pricing or options). A couple of other options that seem not to be mentioned too often here are these Most of his beds are 2 layered either 7.6 or 8" depending on whether you get the talalay blend or the natural but they are a factory as well and will add another layer of latex if you like for about $200. They will customize the cover (either the regular or the natural) to fit. They get their talalay from Radium (at least most of it as I understand) as opposed to Latex international. They do layer exchanges and have been around for a long time. They are very helpful to talk to. They also carry the new Latex Green certified organic latex (Dunlop) but I don't think the certification on what is otherwise pretty much the same Dunlop latex that Latex Green sells otherwise is worth the extra few hundred. and http://www.trulyadjustable.com/ He takes a great deal of care going through what you need and his "basic" configuration as outlined on the website with 11" of Talalay is about $1850. He will also customize as needed and has layer exchanges. One thing he does that is quite unique is "split" the layer into an upper half and lower half so the shoulders can sink in more and your spine will be straighter. He has you measure parts of your body to help design the bed. The owner there is really helpful and used to be a VP of Latex international so he knows his latex. and http://okmattress.com/html/about_us_.html I talked to the owner there and he is also very helpful and knowledgeable. They are a small operation but have amazing prices on their latex beds (about $1200 for 9" of latex) and will gladly ship to you. and http://www.beloitmattress.com/mattress2.html They also make their own although they are mostly "pre-configured". Their shipping cost is very low ($125 queen for the mattress I was looking at). They are also making some beds with a top layer of NuFORM progressive recovery latex which is unusual to see (although it is in some of the "S" brands"). and They are a direct factory outlet and have an wonderful looking bed with quiltable latex. You can customize it when it's made but it doesn't have a zippered cover. They are also dunlop latex but the way it's made I think it would be quite soft and it can be ordered in three "comfort" choices. and They've been mentioned here only a few times but have great value. I talked to them and they have no problem shipping anywhere and will ship ups or fedex when they can. They specialize in pocket coil springs layered with latex but will also make a latex mattress for you. They quoted me 9" of latex for $1050 (layered) and then another $450 for a wool cotton cover. He was very helpful on the phone. and http://www.tomorrowsworld.com/CozyPure-Organic-Mattress-Collection-s/3.htm These guys are the nicest and most reasonable priced mattress out of all the "organic" stores I've seen. They have a 7" core of dunlop with the comfort layers Talalay (you don't see 7" cores very often but I checked and they are one slab). I especially like their choice of quilting including latex in the quilting option. and http://savvylivingathome.com/mattresses.html Similar to savvy rest, Sleep EZ etc. Outlet for jamestownmattress http://www.jamestownmattress.com/retail.htm They cover each layer of latex separately and have lower pricing. Haven't talked to them so I know little about them but they seemed to have good value. and Talked to him and he was very helpful. He told me that he was actually selling Savvy Rest beds but his pricing is better than the savvy rest website itself. and http://www.clarebedding.com/index.asp?sPage=13 They are a regional manufacturer for several lines including restonic but they make their own line called Platinum dreams which is absolutely beautiful. If you click on the platinum dreams website link they go into the materials they use and if you click on the mattress spec link it will take you to a dealer site with the specs of the mattresses. When you get there seach by type (foam) and then you can see the build specs for their mattresses. They are also very reasonable priced for the quality and are 2 sided. The Restonic buildouts (available on the clarebedding website) are also very impressive as they also use latex in the quilting and are all latex but the problem with Restonic is that every regional manufacturer makes them differently and some use polyfoam in the quilting so depending on your area you may not get this specific buildout if you buy a Restonic. and This is the "cheapest" all latex mattress I have come across. 9" of talalay for 919 plus shipping (queen). If you order right from the factory the shipping is expensive but you can order on Amazon (Excel) for 999 incl shipping. I went to Oregon to lay on these and talk to the people at the factory and the reason I didn't buy it was it was not as confortable as others I have tried. They use 19 ild in the top (3 one inch layers) and a 6" core of 28 but the separate layers made it too soft and you could feel pressure when you went through it. They have visil (I think) under the fabric and have an option called the sawgrass special (only available at their factory store) which has a thin layer of compressed wool but it had a harder feel to it when I layed on it. Great value, and a good bed, but I was willing to pay more for something I liked better.
There are others I haven't mentioned here and there are also places you can get some great prices on "pre made" beds but you have to ask questions about what is in their beds and where the materials come from as there is also a lot of misinformation out there. If you take the time (and do some real digging) to look, there are local and regional manufacturers all over the US. Some have prices equivalent to stores and are not really factory direct pricing but some really do have amazing value. If you take the time to talk with them and look at their history (BBB etc) you can get some wonderful deals and buy from a reputable manufacturer that knows their stuff ... and cares about what you end up with. Hope this helps Phoenix PS: I wish I had of known some of this when my mom was 86. She passed away at 91 but I could have made sure she had a great bed for her last 5 years. Your post sort of touched my heart and brought back memories. PPS: 3 more added PPPS: 1 more added This message was modified Oct 9, 2010 by Phoenix
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On question 2. The Flobed is not really designed to be flipped. The cover is wool filled, but the bottom is not. However, I think the bottom is just cotton, so it could be used if necessary. I think you will find that you don't really need to flip latex that often. It springs right back to its normal position. Also, most people end up with firmer on the bottom and softer on the top. So, flipping would not work in that regard either - it would change the firmness of the mattress. It could be rotated of course, unless you get the Vzone. If you rotate that, it would change where the firmer and softer parts are. |
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A lot of the mattress manufacturers I talked with ... especially those that had been around for a long time ... seemed to agree that flipping even a latex mattress would add a few years of life to an already very long lasting mattress. While latex is probably the most durable material out there, it is not immune from body impressions although they would be much less prevalent and take much longer to happen. Of the different types of latex (Talalay, Dunlop both all natural and blended) it seems that the all natural Talalay in the lower ILD's is the most likely to wear out or develop impressions. It is really a "green" driven product which is the primary reason they (Latex International) came out with it but does not have the same compression resistence as the blend according to the testing that has been done on it. This information came from several sources who would know. The other advantage of flipping even a latex mattress would be to extend the lifetime of the ticking and or quilting material. Wool will also compress over time although in the zippered covers you do have the option of getting a new cover or replacing just a layer of Latex. Ultimately, I decided that I wanted a flippable 2 sided mattress even though it was latex. It just seemed to be a better value. If it ever wears out, I would probably just tear it open and re-use the good latex with a new cover or re-use it in a new custom mattress. Phoenix This message was modified Oct 8, 2010 by Phoenix
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Just for the sake of complete disclosure, I also bought an queen size adjustable bed from here: http://www.usbeds.com/Brand/Reverie.aspx which is one of the websites for Olejo. I talked at length with Daniel there and they were amazingly helpful. I almost bought a mattress there as well but their only all latex bed had just been discontinued. They were very willing to take their prices down from already low pricing if you buy both. The Reverie supreme (with the massage etc ... aaahhhhh lol) was $929 including shipping which was by far the best anywhere I saw and is still their current price. When it arrived a few days ago, it had been damaged in transit so I refused delivery. They were amazingly quick in sending out a replacement with absolutely no problems and I just got a phone call that it will arrive on Monday. Can't say enough about how good they've been to deal with. Phoenix |
| Wow Phoenix, thank you for all of the links and info. !!! |
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Phoenix, those are some great links! I showed a few of those on the adjustable beds to Mom and she was fascinated -- wants me to send them to her computer just a couple at a time, so she can look them over thoroughly. That first one does seem to have the low to high travel range we've been looking for -- and the base looks Roomba-friendly. Thanks, Sandman, for the information on the non-flippability of the Flobeds -- even though it wasn't what I wanted to hear. I really do think we want something we can flip. We don't actually flip, then rotate, though it amounts to that -- what we do is flip side to side one time, then flip end to end, then flip side to side, etc. So the mattress switches which side is up every time the sheets are changed, and moves regularly through the four possible positions -- only being in exactly the same position 1/4 the time. I realize that latex doesn't compress much -- though I think the softer latex she likes might be more subject to compression than firmer latex -- but there seems to be consensus that in most beds, the outer layer of padding compresses and that that can combine with a small amount of compression in the latex itself. Avoiding any sort of "body impression" is important for her -- not only because she doesn't like the feel of it, but also because her problem spine behaves better if she turns frequently, and it doesn't take much of a "trough" to make that more difficult for her. And I think that even with a body-impression-resistant bed, regular flipping is likely to help keep that surface flat. Phoenix -- or anyone who's tried the OrganicPedic latex mattresses -- especially the Terra -- how would you rate it for softness? Mattress shopping -- AAARRRRRGH! Our Malamute gets on my bed, drags all the covers to the center, then turns until he's made a nice round nest. I believe his view is that if humans would just quit insisting on walking around on their hind legs, and would sleep smoothly curled into a sensible round nest such as he builds, their back problems would depart. Wonder if he's on to something? JLJ |
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Bearing in mind that "softness" is very subjective, the Terra was one of the nicest and softest I lay on. It was very comfortable to me (and my other half) and both of us like soft or plush beds because of pressure issues. It sort of became a "baseline" in the search. I lay on several of the Natura beds as well and none of them came close to the Terra in terms of initial impression. One of the things I found ... and both of us are sensitive to pressure points ... was that beds with 2" of softer latex on top didn't cut it for us. Same holds true for the 3 one inch layers (as opposed to 1 3" layer) which was similar to the 2" tops in feel. What happens is that I tend to "go through" the 2" layer and the transition into the firmer layer beneath was too abrupt and I could feel pressure on my hip (which I am sensitive to being a side sleeper). Many of the beds out there have a transition between the top layer and the next layer that is too abrupt for me and I prefer either a thicker top layer (3") or ILD's that are closer together (many beds will have an ILD of 16-20 on the top for example and then the next layer will be 32 or in that range ... which is too much difference for me). Bear in mind too that I did not spend the night on the Terra ... lay on it for about 10-15 minutes or so (on several occasions to "refresh" my memory of it) as I knew I wouldn't be buying it ... so I can't speak to it's ability to support, but I suspect it would be fine. I spent quite a bit of time experimenting with the feel of different layering both by lying on beds where I knew (asked) the ILD of the layers I was lying on and by lying on different combinations of 3" layers (I was fortunate to have a "mattress factory" nearby which was more like a retail outlet in their pricing and sold mainly commercial beds but did have layers of latex they could put together). Another combination that has an interesting effect is putting a slightly firmer layer on top of a softer one. You don't get the "transition" effect that comes from going through a layer and then meeting stiffer resistance but the second layer does "give" in a more general (not so point specific) way. I think that it's important to know the differences in personal "feel" to get your final configuration right. For the record, I am 6'5" and 195 so tall and slim with "bony" hips and shoulders quite a bit wider than my waist. My other half is 5'7" and evenly (I would say beautifully lol) proportioned. Luckily, it seems we both like the same makeup of bed probably because our weight distribution is similar even though our overall size is much different. We both have "pressure" issues as well as occasional lower back issues. One other thing that was very clear to me was that the materials (fibre, foam, etc) in the top layer and the method of finishing (tight top, quilting, etc) used in the ticking made a real difference in the feel of the bed. Compressed wool (used by many beds to comply with the fire code) and material with little give or elasticity on the top made the beds noticeably firmer. Thicker wool tops that were not so compressed were nicer but then they too will compress over time and you do lose some of the feel of latex if they are too thick or too compressed (even though the feel of thicker wool is quite nice). Looser more stretchable tops or quilting were my clear preference. This is the reason I was looking for a bed with quiltable latex in the top. I also noticed that a lot of manufacturers would use great latex in their beds until the very top layers where they would use poly foam for the top inch or two. While they may have felt very nice, I was determined for several reasons to eliminate any polyfoam from the equation with the possible exception of some of the new HR foams with a density over 2 used as an inch or two layer on the very bottom (and even that I'd rather avoid). Seems a shame to have an all latex bed topped with poly foam no matter how good it feels ... and of course the issues with how you will feel in 6 months or a few years are all over this and other forums. Considered memory foam as well and did a lot of research in that area ... especially with the newer memory foams that are more breathable (I tend to sleep hot) but ruled them out for many reasons. I did really like the feel of the top of the line NXG (575) with latex and memory foam and considered a combination of the two materials but I knew I would regret it if I went in that direction. Memory foam is a whole different animal but that's a whole other story. I do have to say though that regarding memory foam and the differences between them, the research that hayesdb did in the legacy forum and the early part of this one were really helpful. I just wish he was still around to update some of that information so I didn't have to lol. Hope this helps Phoenix This message was modified Oct 9, 2010 by Phoenix
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I am just reading this whole thread through and I gotta say great information is absolutely abounds in here. Phoenix thank you for taking the time to summarize all of this information. On the topic of the flobeds, although the cover of the mattress is only set up on one side, you could remove rubber cores and flip and rotate the pieces individually, this would in theory help prolong the life of the latex cores a little bit. In any event all the links to different adjustable bed bases has really opened my eyes up to some options I had never seen before, base options are limited here in Canada. Definitely some great options from Reverie and Ergomotion that I am not very interested in adding to our store here in the future. |
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Phoenix, thanks for the comprehensive and detailed posts. I recently returned an S&F coil spring mattress and have since been reading the forum, with the intent to give latex a try. There appeared to be be limited options: I'm on a very tight budget and you've opened my eyes to other possibilities. You did some great quality research: thanks again for taking the time to write it up. |