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PROBLEM DESCRIPTION: We're looking for a new twin mattress, probably extra long, for my 86 year old mother to use on her adjustable bed. She has had progressive spine problems for about 40 years, somewhat alleviated by the fact that she's always exercised to the extent she was able and by two back surgeries (most recent about ten years ago). Her mobility has become increasingly limited, so a comfortable bed is increasingly important. Often firm mattresses are recommended for back problems, but for her, they are miserable. Last time we shopped for a mattress she was able to get to a large mattress store, tried many, and the only one she found comfortable seemed to me about as firm as jello. She loved her jello mattress for a number of years, however. But now she says her bed feels to her as if it has rocks in it. My efforts to locate the rocks have led me to conclude that perhaps her back, very sensitive to touch, is being irritated by places where the mattress has worn unevenly over the years at the points where her adjustable bed bends. So we're searching for a new mattress, without rocks. ;] We normally rotate or flip (alternately) her mattress every time the sheets are changed and I think this has helped maintain it as comfortable for her, so we are really looking for a two sided mattress -- and, I believe, we probably want Talalay latex. We live in rural Wyoming -- and those stores within a distance she can travel seem to have gone entirely with the single sided mattress lines, so we will probably order a mattress online, unless a local store suddenly acquires something suitable. QUESTION 1: We've been considering the OMI OrganicPedic Flora (100% natural rubber Talalay latex 3 inch firm core with two inches softer latex top and bottom enclosed in quilted wool/cotton -- rated medium firm) and also the Terra. The Terra appears to be the Flora with a removable, 100% natural rubber latex, two sided, flat/contoured attachable/detachable 3 1/2 inch topper, also enclosed in quilted wool/cotton -- Terra firmness rated plush -- presumably because of the soft topper. The Terra seemed a possiblity that would make enable us to change the firm/soft property and also the smooth/contoured surface property fairly easily, not only for initial comfort, but also because the sensitivity of different areas of her back varies from time to time. Price is comparatively high, but both because she puts more mileage on her bed than most of us, and because comfort in bed is important to maintaining the limited mobility she still has, we'd be willing to spend that, if the mattress would be good for her. Does anyone have any experience with these OMI OrganicPedic mattresses? It would be especially nice to know if they worked well on an adjustable bed, but reports of any kind of experience, even showroom tryout impressions, would be helpful. QUESTION 2: After several weeks of reading posts on this forum, the favorable reports of so many about their Flobeds caused us to consider that source. Their 90 day layer exchange period is certainly a big plus for someone who is unable to try out mattresses being considered. Some things I wondered about: a) It does not appear to me that these mattresses are designed to be flippable -- is that correct? I realize that one can open the mattress cover and shuffle layers, but that is surely more complicated that rotating/flipping a mattress -- and when you are accustomed to rotating/flipping frequently . . . I wonder if that would be a problem. b) Has anyone used these on an adjustable bed? I realize that separate latex layers tend not to slide over one another readily, but I wonder whether the frequent movements of an adjustable bed might cause them to get out of alignment, develop bumps where one layer bent more and the layer above bent less as the bed went up, etc. c) If one wished to change firmness or to replace a damaged layer after the 90 period, does Flobeds sell layers individually? QUESTION 3: Does anyone have any mattress suggestions they think would be better for our situation than the Organipedic or Flobed possibilities mentioned? QUESTION 4: I realize the forum topic is mattresses, not adjustable beds, but some here do seem to know about them. She currently has a twin extra long adjustable bed that works fairly well but I'd been wondering: a) Does anyone know of a maker/model of adjustable bed that has substantial height adjustment capacity? Her current bed has none, and all we've been able to find has about 12 inches of height adjustment in the middle height range. What I wish we could find is one that could go completely down to the floor and up to something a little above standard height. She has had times where she fell or got down on the floor and it was *very* difficult to get her up -- not because she was injured but because it's hard to help her when one shouldn't put pressure on her arms, shoulders or back. We've been kidding her about needing a monorail and harness like they used for Barbaro or some other type of "Momavator" that could elevate her from the floor, but we'd been thinking that if there was an adjustable bed that went really low, it might be a serious way to deal with such situations. And the ability to raise the height to a little above standard would be useful if she had a bedfast episode, which we try to avoid but which has happened in the past. b) Does anyone know of any reason it would be inappropriate to put larger wheels on her existing adjustable bed if they could be made to fit? We currently have her bed's feet on contoured blocks (blocks that elevate the bed's four feet but don't allow them to roll off the blocks) because the tiny wheels on the bed's feet sink into the carpet and make dents and because we want the room to be Roomba-friendly so the bottom of the bed needs to be high enough for Roomba to clear. Larger wheels might make it possible to eliminate the blocks, move the bed more easily, and keep Roomba happy. Thanks for any thoughts, JLJ |
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I certainly understand your point. I have suspicions though that OMI's efforts towards being organic are more driven by a desire to capitalize on (mis)perception than they are on real organic manufacturing. I have no doubt that much of what they say is true and they even have an actual USDA organic mattress (not latex) ... but it's in the part that isn't true at all (I believe that some of what they say is completely false) and the price they charge for the perception they create that I have some "issues" with them. Having said all that, their mattresses are without a doubt very nice. Greensleep for example ... while still too expensive IMO ... are much closer to being organic than OMI in ways that really count as they really do control their own latex supply. I also understand that their latex could be qualitatively different from other Dunlop latex since they use a different variety of tree. Having said all that I also believe that any difference between their latex and other natural or even USDA organic latex is too small to justify their prices as well. Even Sealy controls their own latex manufacturing though (they are the largest latex manufacturer in the world) and I would not say they are an icon of quality and value. While latex is certainly an expensive material in comparison to other materials, it is not nearly as expensive as most people seem to think and in general it is hard to justify the cost of upper end mattresses (read expensive) that use automated manufacturing methods in general or buy "parts" from other suppliers, rebrand them as something else, and then assemble them with a story attached. This is why I like using smaller manufacturers where the supply chain is much smaller, who do put more personal care into what they produce, and whose story and "branding" is much more honest. Some smaller manufacturers though also "ride on" perception and "other people's pricing" and charge way too much for their products so a little research and a few phone calls are essential. I wonder why if so many manufacturers can produce a good quality queen size 9" latex mattress with a good quality wool/cotton ticking that sells for around $1000 - $1400 (perhaps a little more for natural Talalay but not much), then what justifies the cost of a mattress that charges double or even triple that using the same or substantially the same materials and manufacturing methods. I would even pay more than that for a manufacturer that offered something that created greater value to me (in the ticking, construction methods etc) ... and would gladly go up in price if the value was there (hand built methods or even materials that use special more expensive processing methods) ... but in most cases it isn't. Most manufacturers use materials that are widely available under different "names" to anyone else and then attach a story to their name which doubles the cost. Most of these stories have "a little truth" but are at best spin and at worst completely untrue. Many manufacturers put more effort into perpetuating their story to justify their prices than they do in making their mattresses. We the consumer pay for this. Did you know for example that Simmons and Serta are owned by the same people and that they keep these two companies "separate" for primarily marketing reasons? The "big 3" is really the "big 2". I was really surprised at how widely available good quality latex mattresses are in the price range I mentioned. I thought at first that "there must be something in their material or methods" that justified the higher prices of some ... but came to the conclusion after a lot of research that there really wasn't. This is just as true with all the materials used in mattresses. The suppliers of those materials are usually willing "accomplices" in the rebranding/story telling process and even sell their products with "ideas" of how to build a good story that creates perceived and "unique" value as opposed to real value. They too in most cases are more concerned with the margin of their customers (mattress manufacturers and retailers) than they are with the actual value of their product. I was a little surprised at how open they are about this in their marketing. Very few manufacturers differentiate themselves on differences that represent "true value". Overall ... I think it would be fair to say I was rather "astounded" at what I have seen in my research travels ... and I don't get "astounded" so easily. Phoenix This message was modified Nov 16, 2010 by Phoenix
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Has your mom had the chance to lay on the Terra or other latex mattresses? I know she is not so mobile which is why I'm asking. If she doesn't have a great deal of actual "lay on bed" time (outside of her own bowl of jello (smiling)) and if the "lay on bed" time she has had hasn't been with the Terra specifically, ... then perhaps going with a build your own would not be any "riskier" than going with the Terra since they would all represent "unknown quantities" except in the details of their construction which would be fairly easy to duplicate through many sources. Going in this direction would also allow you to tailor a mattress to her unique preferences, makeup, and sleeping style to greater degrees than the Terra as well which would increase your odds of "getting it right". If not getting it "right" was a bigger concern to you, then going with a manufacturer that could offer comfort exchanges could reduce that risk to a greater degree than the Terra as well .... although wanting 2 sided does slightly limit your options here. The one advantage you have is that in the size you are looking for, your outlay would be much less. I should probably mention as well though that in some cases smaller mattresses often have a different and firmer feel than the larger sizes. This could be true in the case of the Terra as it has quite a thick and "sturdy" ticking and I would say that the Terra is "on the borderline" of what your mom would perceive as soft (25 is usually seen as closer to medium in most cases) ... especially if her current mattress and what she is used to is even softer. Phoenix This message was modified Nov 16, 2010 by Phoenix
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As I said (I think) up yonder somewhere, when we began looking for a mattress for her we checked local places. I would enormously prefer for her to have lain on any mattress she gets -- but local places are virtually all one-sided. She did try quite a few, but was not impressed with any. Certain things she was sure of -- she wanted something compatible with an adjustable bed and she didn't want memory foam (had slept on it when a guest and "felt like she was sleeping in a hole". I feel reasonably sure that her current mattress is latex, but it doesn't have specs on the law tag. The first thing we did in our mattress search was to email the company that made it a couple of times, asking about a new mattress like the one she has. If they'd responded,they'd probably have had a quick sale. Perhaps they felt shy about the lack of information on the law tags on the mattress she has. We concluded that she did want a latex mattress, but one where we knew what was in it, and concluded that it wasn't possible to get such a thing locally. The problem with the "mattress surgery" approach or the "order layers and custom create a mattress" approach are my limited time combined with her age and need for a good bed now -- and that we want something flippable. We haven't excluded those entirely, but they offer considerable complications we'd rather avoid. I have varying feelings about OMI -- sometimes I think going with their product is the thing to do, sometimes I reflect that I have experience with geese and they might offer a simpler approach to quality. Plus they're good watchbeasts and pretty fair weed pluckers ;] I did get some probably accurate information about the current OMI ILDs -- similar to what you'd suggested, though not identical to the SLAB chart N2 -- 20-24 N3 -- 25-28 N4 -- 30-34 N5 -- 36-42 I think -- though I'm not certain -- that they will customize with those layers, though they don't normally use N2 in most mattresses. That would suggest, other than the defaults, possibilities of N4 (instead of N5), surrounded by N3 -- or all N3 -- or N3 surrounded by N2. If Mom goes that route with a Terra, all she's sure about is that she wants the topper N3 in order to have the smooth/contoured side difference for greater flexibility. JLJ |
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I think I may have found a possible solution for you! If you go here http://www.mygreenmattress.com/view_products/organicmattress.htm ... you will see some 2 sided mattresses that you can customize. The organic dreams is natural talalay in all layers and the Natural escape is a blended talalay core with natural on each side. I'd talked with him before and found him really helpful so I called him back today to ask some specific questions about your situation. He can customize the mattress pretty much any way you want. The standard soft is 24 24 24, and the medium is 24 28 24 (very similar to mine anda customized OMI in terms of ILD) quilted both sides (2 sided) manufactured mattress (no zipper). If you were willing to wait (about 3 weeks) he could also build it (he's a mattress manufacturer) to any specs you wanted that uses latex that LI makes so for example he could make softer around a 24 core. Here's the best part though and what makes him different from other custom manufacturers (including the one who made my mattress). He charges $75 shipping. If you then decide that you need a comfort exchange and need it re-configured to something else ... he only charges $75 each way for a total of $150 to ship the mattress and have it remade and ship it back to you and he will arrange for pickup. He has a 90 day exchange period. This is different from any other custom manufacturer I know of and makes a comfort exchange for a whole mattress a realistic possibility at low cost. This was not a misquote as when I expressed my surprise and questioned it he well knew that the shipping was below cost and it was part of the service he offers. He said to me too (told him about your circumstances) that if it was too soft (all the way through) it may lead to problems with your mom getting in and out of bed as she may sink in too far but if you thought it was appropriate he could even make it 14 all the way through (giving an example of what he could do ... not what was appropriate). Now that would be "beyond jello" (laughing) His name is Tim and he is the owner. I would certainly call him as the mattress would represent a significant savings for a very similar construction and better after sale options.
I also called Latex International and they confirmed with me SLAB ratings are pretty much correct. LI tests for ILD on 6" cores (typical ILD is tested with 4" of material) after it is manufactured. They use a range since there is some variance in the natural material. They can even supply it in lower ILD's than that on their website because certain batches will end up outside the ranges. The softest N2 could go as low as 17 or in some cases even lower. She said that they needed to change their website description of the natural talatech which is listed in ILD instead of N ranges. They will also custom manufacture to certain ILD's for some manufacturers and this could lead to some softer natural latex being out there in larger quantities than they typically supply but they would be inside a mattress. So their natural could be as low as 17 (in rare cases even lower). One other thing that could be important is that the ILD of thinner layers will be much softer as it is much easier to compress a 4" layer only 1" than it is to compress a 6" layer 1.5" so how ILD is tested for by different manufacturers makes a difference. They test all their latex in all varieties the same way (on a 6" core) so it is a consistent test between products. This also means of course that a thinner layer in a mattress would be a lower ILD but because we sink in to differing amounts with different parts of our bodies, and because layer thickness and ILD is not the only factor which affects the qualities of a layer, ILD is only part of the story with both comfort and support. Phoenix This message was modified Nov 19, 2010 by Phoenix
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Things are hectic here at the moment, but right now we're wondering if we could find a good adjustable bed to replace what she has. The High/Low feature -- vertical adjustment of height of the whole bed -- seems to be only on beds deemed "medical" and those are often a little narrower than standard, which we definitely wouldn't want. As soon as I get a chance I'm going to go back over the links you posted early in the thread -- but I just wondered if you (or anyone else) had happened to recall any with the high/low feature and standard width that seemed to be good beds. JLJ |
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This one is 39" wide instead of 35" and has 19" of travel from a low of 7". It also says that this standard twin width deck is available on all their other models as well. I think there's others so if I see them I'll add to this post. http://www.noamedical.com/products/twin-riser.html Phoenix Transfermaster also has the standard width but they don't have the same range of height adjustment (they are 10 - 12" depending on model). http://www.rotecbeds.com/client/page4.asp?page=1342&clef=986&clef2=247 Just came across this one looking for something else. It has 18" of travel and standard width as well. This message was modified Nov 20, 2010 by Phoenix
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