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I'm trying to figure out a good configuration for latex layers to alleviate some lower back pain, and I'd love to get some feedback from forum members experienced with this kind of thing. I have no local access to latex components, so I'm basing this on what I've read from others on the forum. Our current mattress, the firmest we could find, began to sag and lose support shortly after we bought it. The addition of a 2" firm latex topper (and removal of PU foam) helped somewhat, but it appears the springs are the underlying problem. I wake up every morning with significant stiffness across my lower back and hips. We're in our mid-thirties. At 6', 170 lbs, I'm the largest. I generally prefer to sleep on my stomach/back, but with our current mattress stomach sleeping is painful, so I've become a back/side sleeper. My wife is predominantly a side sleeper, but she's also more or less unaffected by our current problem. I know we'll have to do some experimenting to get the right combination, but I'd really like to hear some suggestions about where to start. I already have 2" of firm from FBM. --Firm vs. extra firm core? --Do most people with overall firm mattresses still have some softer components? Ultimately I'm wondering which components I should begin shuffling around. Something like the following (although maybe not in that order)? wool pad This message was modified Sep 4, 2010 by a_bear
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a_bear wrote: The slats are 3" apart and there is good center support.
To be fair, the springs probably aren't completely shot. But where we each sleep there's a noticeable dip, with the usual hump running down the middle. They springs have lost the firmness we bought the mattress for. It was made by a local company, their "top of the line," and we got it about two years ago. It's possible there are Serta parts. The company seems to have some sort of partnership with them. Several months ago I ripped out the original foam and replaced it with the 32 ild from FBM. That improved things somewhat, but the dip is still there, if less significant. As far as my back is concerned, though, it's more or less the same. I just rolled back the latex to check the springs themselves and I realize that when I pulled up the PU foam I left the gray, woolly looking stuff that directly covers the springs. I assumed that needed to be there to protect the latex from tearing. I wonder if some of the dip might be in there. There's at least an inch of it. Maybe 1 1/2". Is it safe to rip that out? I suppose it's possible that a firmer piece of latex on top of the springs might lessen the dip more than the 2" of 32 ild currently does. Maybe the topper just isn't firm enough. But it still feels like some degree of dip will be there no matter what. But maybe with something firmer between me and the springs it can be mitigated to the point that my back doesn't mind. I am surprised that the gray wooly stuff would be 1" or more thick. Maybe you could try taking that out, but is there then nothing else above the coils? Probably not the best to put the latex directly on the coils, but maybe you could spread out an old blanket or something like that. I doubt the gray thing is the problem if it is not foam, but you never know until you try. If the springs are truly dipping then you probably are best replacing them with a firm latex base. |
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I find the idea of zones appealing. I'm a little wary of doing it DIY, though. It seems like once you start cutting things up it becomes a lot more difficult to move layers around. The exacto knife feels like a point of no return. If I decided to go that route I might just pony up the money for flobeds. Yes, it's entirely possible my toddler helped to hasten the springs' demise, despite our efforts to keep him off. He doesn't weigh a whole lot, but more than once we've caught him bouncing around. The springs are interlaced. I just measured, and there appears to be 1" of the gray stuff. It's hard to measure because it sort of sinks into the springs. I have no idea what it's made of (partly foam of some sort, I'm sure—maybe cotton, too, or something cottony), but there's nothing else above the springs. If I'm going to get a 3" piece of 40 ild anyway, I could always throw it on top and see what happens. If nothing else it would give us something to sleep on if we decided to order another 3" piece. Trying to guess what the solution might be is frustrating work. If I knew only a zoned flobed would make my back happy, I'd buy one. But it's hard to spend that kind of money when it still seems perfectly likely that there's a much cheaper DIY solution. Then again, I fear the inevitable creep, ending up spending just as much for pieces that still don't make a satisfying whole. It wasn't that long ago that a $100 futon felt perfect. I don't know if I'm just getting old or if it's just these particular springs. |
| Just for the heck of it, you may want to try first with the gray thing off. I worry a bit about the coils cutting into your latex with use, so some kind of thin covering over it would be good. If you don't have something to use, then maybe try for just 15 minutes with the latex on the coils to see if still dips too much. If so, then you probably have to write off the coils. |
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It turns out part of the problem was that the pad I had on top of the topper was badly compressed. With it off there's still a bit of a dip, but it's not nearly as bad. What's the general view on this? If there's any dip should the springs be tossed? Is it a sign they're not long for the world? This is my first experience with springs, so I don't have a lot to go on. I'm wary of investing in their future if they're going to continue to steadily worsen. If the springs are still usable, I could experiment with a 1" 40 ild topper instead of the 3" I'd been planning on (when I thought the springs would have to be tossed). But would 1" be enough to offset springs that feel too soft? There's also the 44 ild option. Right now, the combination of springs and 2" of 32 ild are too soft. |
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a_bear wrote: It turns out part of the problem was that the pad I had on top of the topper was badly compressed. With it off there's still a bit of a dip, but it's not nearly as bad. What's the general view on this? If there's any dip should the springs be tossed? Is it a sign they're not long for the world? This is my first experience with springs, so I don't have a lot to go on. I'm wary of investing in their future if they're going to continue to steadily worsen.
If the springs are still usable, I could experiment with a 1" 40 ild topper instead of the 3" I'd been planning on (when I thought the springs would have to be tossed). But would 1" be enough to offset springs that feel too soft? There's also the 44 ild option. Right now, the combination of springs and 2" of 32 ild are too soft. Can you tell if the latex indeed feels like 32? FBM seems to have a varying degree of reliability of what they sell. |
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No, not visible. It's just something you can feel when you lay down. It's softer on the sides and firmer in the middle. This is the only latex I've owned, so I have no means for comparison. It's certainly a lot firmer than what came with the bed, but unfortunately I don't know what 32 ild should feel like. You might be right that I just need a firmer core. |
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a_bear wrote:
No, not visible. It's just something you can feel when you lay down. It's softer on the sides and firmer in the middle.
This is the only latex I've owned, so I have no means for comparison. It's certainly a lot firmer than what came with the bed, but unfortunately I don't know what 32 ild should feel like. You might be right that I just need a firmer core. Do they put extra support in the middle of a king bed (I have only dealt with queens)? If not, then it sounds like the springs have definitely lost something. The springs in the middle (assuming no extra support there) are probably close to the firmness was like when new (since they don't get used much), and the sides are broken in and less firm now. I have one further thought. What is the box spring like? Does that seem too soft? That could be part of the problem as well.
Budgy, if you are out there do you have any opinions on this? This message was modified Sep 7, 2010 by sandman
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Yes, there are two strong supports in the center. It's a very solid bed frame. You're right, the middle feels like it did when we bought it (and now I sleep there whenever I can). We opted to skip the box spring, assuming the slats would suffice. The mattress people didn't try to talk us out of it. Was that a mistake? As I said, in addition to being relatively new to latex and I'm also very new to spring mattresses. Little did we know the can of worms we were opening by buying our first "real" bed. |
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a_bear wrote: Yes, there are two strong supports in the center. It's a very solid bed frame.
You're right, the middle feels like it did when we bought it (and now I sleep there whenever I can). We opted to skip the box spring, assuming the slats would suffice. The mattress people didn't try to talk us out of it. Was that a mistake? As I said, in addition to being relatively new to latex and I'm also very new to spring mattresses. Little did we know the can of worms we were opening by buying our first "real" bed. It is pretty unusual to have an innerspring with no box spring. I am not sure what impact that might have. If anything, I would think it would be firmer, because a box spring has some give. I know they say a box spring increases the life of a mattress, but I always assumed that was marketing hype. Maybe something to it. So, you have a metal frame with center supports and wood slats (or are they metal?) going across horizontally about 3" apart? A picture would be helpful! How thick and sturdy are the slats? If those are sagging, that could be the problem. Not sure if that would happen over time, since they did not seem to be a problem when it was new. One test (a big hassle I know) would be to try the mattress directly on the floor. If it still seems to dip too much, then it probably is a lost cause. Frimer latex might help, but it seems to me that it should be firm enough with just 2" of 32 on the springs. For most of us that would be too firm. |
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Correct: metal frame, wooden horizontal slats 3" apart. The slats seem pretty sturdy and none of them appear to be sagging. The bed is the same age as the mattress. I'm posting a picture from below (please forgive the dust bunnies). I'll see if I can get the mattress on the floor later.
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