Mattress Forum

So, maybe my indictment of the springs was a little unfair. They definitely have lost some of their firmness, but the dip might not be as significant as I thought. And I guess it's an argument in favor of using a box spring on a slat bed.

But in this case I suspect a box spring wouldn't solve the firmness problem. As you say, sandman, it might make the bed even softer.

And it sounds like replacing the medium toppers I have with something firmer won't solve the spring softness problem either.

Which brings me back to where I started. Sort of.

I've been doing a bit more reading at some of the complete latex bed stores online. FSF mentions that people accustomed to futons tend to like to sleep on a firm top over an extra firm core. Given my preferences, Flobeds recommends a firm and extra firm combo. All of this has got me to wondering if the two medium pieces I have from FBM might ultimately be of no use to me. It's hard to know, though, because I don't entirely know what ILD the FBM pieces are. Maybe 32. For FSF, firm ranges from 29-34.

If I have to buy all the pieces it would get expensive to DIY it.

At SLAB, getting two 3" cores and 2" of something else will run us more than $1,600. Add a case and a mattress pad and we'll be at $2,000 (Foamsource, the only other place that seems to sell F & XF components charges even more). $2,000 is about what it costs to get a complete setup at Sleepez and FSF. Sleepez might actually be a little cheaper...

Well, at least you are able to sort figure this out by trial and error.  I was hoping that on the floor it would feel firm enough for you to use with a solid foundation.  But it sounds like it is not enough of an improvement?  Maybe you would have to sleep with it on the floor to really know?  I still would indict the springs a bit, because they should not have changed that much in a couple of years.  I am not sure if the slats would have speeded up the aging process.  That is a possiblity.

FBM has a weird reputation for quality, so hard to say exactly what ILD you have.  It is possible that it is something less.  Does it feel pretty dense and somewhat firm (kind of hard tell really just buy squeezing unless you have a basis of comparison)?   By the way, Flobeds firm is ~32ILD, so firm on top would in theory be like your FBM.  Some here have used 3  3" layers of XF with the convoluted layer on top.  It is possible that you like things firmer than just about anyone in this Forum. 

There is definite value in going the total package route:  you get a wool filled cover, you can exchange layers to get the right fit, you can have each side different, you can return the whole thing if nothing works out.

You still might need a foundation.  Here is what the Flobeds one looks like.  It is 3/4" fir and bolted on the sides.  Are you slats bolted down?  How thick are they?  If they are not bolted they might sag slightly more because they can pull in a little from the sides .  Yours also looks they might be thinner than 3/4", but hard to tell from the picture.
 

Our slats are 1/2" or thereabouts. Not bolted but pretty firmly fixed in place with rubbery end-cap sleeves.

Do the package beds require a separate mattress pad? I'm thinking most particularly of Sleepez, which has the firmness options I like, a good rep, and prices I can stomach (somewhat). At lot of them talk about wool in their descriptions of their covers, but I'm not sure if they expect you to use a pad in addition or if the cover suffices. FSF is one that prices pads separately. I'm wondering if I need to be adding $200 more for that to the package price.

Given the uncertainty of the FBM pieces and my inexperience with latex, a returnable/swappable package is starting to look like a smarter approach, especially if the price difference isn't that great.

Here is rollout slat foundation.  They use 3/4" slats 1.5" or 2" apart.  So, I have a feeling your slats probably flex a bit more than most foundations.  I am not sure if that is a problem, but probably not optimal.  Can you add more slats to it?  You may want to add or move some towards the center. 

One thing that some people have done to shore up a sagging mattress is to put some towels or something like that on top of the box spring in the sagging area.  That may be difficult on your slat foundation and probably a tempory fix at best.

You can use any mattress pad you want.  A good one might be a plus (St. Dormier wool filled), but probalby not necessary if you have one already.  If you find it too hot with a cheaper on, then you may want to buy a better one. 

As an experiment, the last two nights I've slept with a piace of 1/4" plywood on top of the slats beneath my lower back. Not quite as good as the hump, but better than it was. Today I'm trying with a piece of 1x4 that I've trimmed to fit snuggly between the slats below my pelvis, raising my hips a bit to take the pressure off the lower back. We'll see how that works. It probably won't do my hips any favors if I roll onto my side, but it's worth a try. If all else fails, I may cover all the slats with a 1/2" piece of plywood, and then the entire bed should feel like the hump. 

Who knows, maybe another alternative to Lovegasoline's idea about a stiffening agent.

So, it seems that your slats are part of the problem.  I thought they might flex too much given the thickness and spacing.  I am not sure if you can add more slats, but that would help.  3/4" slats would probably be better as well.

The 1/2" plywood might be a good test, and possibly put a folded towel or blanket on top of the board and under the area that is sagging too much to see if that adds some support. 
 

Several notes:  I found that as little as 1/2 inch of pretty soft poly... probably 20 ILD.. on top of the felt on top of my Serta "firm" springs took a substantial amount of the "bend" or accommodation out of my springs.  For my 170 lbs side sleeper that was a bad thing, so I took it out.  You are on the right track to "stiffen up" a layer above the springs.

Let me make a suggestion:  before plunking big dollars for "base foam" out of latex, experiment with similar firmness poly foam from

www.foamdistributing.com as I have.  Their HD 36  (for High Density)  Poly foam is quite firm.. and will feel very much like a poor man's "Medium" 35 ILD latex (gee, what a surprise!).  You can buy that very cheap.

I have also been experimenting with and have compared their "supersoft foam" which I believe feels very close to Foambymail's (the other division of same company.. different website, though for some unknown reason???) 20 ILD latex.

So buy a couple of pieces of HD 36  in 1 inch thickness.. you can fold both if necessary.. and can feel what up to 4 inches of that pretty firm base feels like.  Order 2 pieces of "supersoft" 1 inch poly, too.. and you can experiment with all of these, before buying expensive latex.

These are really inexpensive, and are pretty close in feel to latex.

And regarding sagging springs:   lay a straight edge across the springs from several angles.. top to bottom, side to side, etc. and measure any dips.  When springs give out, they don't return to full height.  If there is no unloaded dip, they are likely still OK.

And as I posted in another post, because of the economy, lack of available credit, mattress wholesalers are selling name brand mattresses for really cheap, especially ones that were in showrooms, minor scuffs or dirt marks that don't hurt the mattress at all.. just save you a bundle.

I have bought Sealy Reserve Q for $570 (set)... Simmons BR World class same, Stearns Estate for $790.  Look under craigslist in your town and the wholesalers will advertise there.  Go get you a new mattress for small dollars to serve as your base.

Be sure to Reserve (Sealy) and World Class( Simmons) are the minimum quality to have encased perimeter coils which you will need to hold the mattress together for mattress surgery.  Lower lines don't have it and will require some other mechanism to hold them up. 

The upgrade dollars for encasement get you there, and are really cheap.

There was another issue along the way, but by jiminy, forgot what it was.

Good luck!  shovel99

I think I'm going to hold off for now on investing in more foam for these springs. I have 2" of 32 ILD, and while HD 36 might be a bit firmer, I'm not sure any topper is going to offset the softness of the springs.

One option I discussed with Sleepez, though, is that they'd be willing to sell me a smaller mattress (the SS 7000, for instance) with a larger mattress cover (the one for the SS 10,000, for example), allowing me to reuse the 32 ILD latex I already have, instead of buying the same thing again from them as part of the standard SS 10,000 (with M,F,XF configuration). This would void the warranty, but it's one way to save $400 (not including the $$) I spent already on my current latex.

We suspected that the slats were flexing too much, so glad to hear that you figured out a cost effective solution.