Mattress Forum

"What are the advantages of going with the 3 pieces as Freedom1955 did and is it worth the added cost?  If we went the 3 piece route, should we maybe go 6" 36 ILD, 2" 32 ILD, and 2" 20 ILD?  Again, thinking of moving down to 2" of the soft layer since we are stomach/back sleepers?  But moving from a thick featherbed, should we go with the 3" for the plush feel?"

I've been told the advantage of keeping the top layers less thick provides more flexibility. If the comfort layers are too soft or too firm, you could easily add another layer too suite you needs.

"One question I have is on the base 6" being Talalay instead of Dunlop.  I know a lot of systems use the denser, firmer Dunlop for the base.  Do y'all see any problems with it being Talalay, especially if we go with the 36 ILD?"

Although Dunlop may be the choice for a base, I haven't read anyone who's built a mattress from FBM and used talalay as a base complain.

 "I want to try to sleep on our new latex setup without any kind of toppers just to get the full benefits of the latex."

I'm assuming you're talking about thick mattress pads. I got one from cosco (cuttlebed plus) just in case the latex feel was a little too firm.

Check this thread out.

I had a chance to go by a mattress store this evening that had a couple of mostly latex setups.  They had the Sealy Embody and a new line from Stearns & Foster - Luxury Latex collection.  This line is not on their website yet, but the one I liked the best was this one:  http://www.gotomattress.com/p-515-stearns-foster-italian-garden-villa-plush-mattress.aspx  I still want to do a DIY setup to save money, but I'm wondering if the makeup of this mattress will help inform my decision on the components to get.

The S&F is made as follows:  8.75" Smart Latex w/ Interlock Support System, Comfort Layer - 1" HD Supersoft Foam, 1.5" x .5" Convuluted Hypersoft layer, with a 1" Hypersoft quilt.  This mattress felt very supportive with just the right amount of support.  It is labeled as Plush, but interestingly it felt firmer (in a good way) to the stepdown mattress in this line which is labeled as Cushion Firm with a 7" latex core, 2" HD Supersoft Foam, .79" Smart Latex, + the same 2 Hypersoft layers.  This "Cushion Firm" mattress felt kind of mushy and I was bottoming it out as I sat down on it.

Would it be worth replicating any of the HD Supersoft Foam just for comfort?  A 1.5" layer in king size is only $35 from FBM.  At that price, I could buy a new one every year or two if need be.  Would that add a lot more softness/comfort vs. a 20 ILD soft Talalay latex layer?

Thanks,

Cliff

As for stomach sleeping, I tried a Savvy Rest Dunlop F/F/M on Saturday which was good for stomach.  Not so great for side.  There was almost no sinking in and was a little uncomfortable on elbow and shoulder.  The F/F/S was still firm enough for stomach and provided sufficient cushioning for side sleeping.

I am very uncomfortable sleeping on my stomach if there is any sag in my back so no soft mattresses for me.  I also tried the M/M/S they had and it was way too soft for stomach.  It still fell too soft on my side.  They also had Talalay mattress at the store.  I can say that the soft Talalay felt softer than the soft Dunlop. But both the Talalay and Dulop in F/F/M felt the same.  I don't know what ILDs these layers are.

This link has information on ILD for the Dunlop that Savvy Rest sells.  http://www.whatsthebest-mattress.com/forum/savvy-rest-report/1815-0-1.html

A firm lower layer would provide good support for stomach sleeping.  As for how much cushion on top, that would be personal preference.  It sounds like you have done a bit of research and have a pretty good plan.

 I'm assuming you are referring to the eggcrate supersoft foam. I was under the impression (from your first post) you didn't want anything between you and the latex? I guess this would be a matter of preference. I'm only guessing, but I believe the supersoft foam would be softer but less supportive than the 20ild talalay layer. So your mattress would consist of 6" Talalay 33-38 ILD base $727.99, 2" medium 32 ILD layer - $238.99, and 1.5" eggcrate supersoft foam layer - $35.99 Total $1002.97  

Being you only weigh 175lb, it might work for you.

"Wow, what a lot of buzzwords that mean nothing.  What is actually inside that Sterns and Foster mattress?  I can't even find it on the S&F web site.  I'm sorry but I want more details than that when spending $1900 on a mattress"

I thought the same thing

@ sleepswithcats - that link is not working for me

After thinking about it more, I definitely would not want to start out building this with the 1.5" eggcrate foam planned.  I am now thinking it might be nice to find some sort of thin (1-1.5") quilted wool layer to replicate just the very top of this mattress.  I know this is moving away from my original statement of putting as little as possible between me and the latex.  I might wait on this only if I find the initial setup a little firm, non-cushy feeling.  I just don't have any concept of how soft the 20 ILD Talalay layer is going to feel to me.

On the foundation, I've decided I definitely need to replace that as what I have is of pretty flimsy construction and there is a some sort of approx. 2" foam layer as the top part of the foundation.  I think that would be a weak link in the chain with all the quality latex on top of it, only to have the cheap foam giving and flexing underneath it.  Now the question is do I go with a solid platform or a slatted foundation?  Off to do more research here on that.

I talked with foambymail today, and they were very helpful.  They were definitely not upselling as he suggested I might go with just the 6" 36 ILD + 2" of 32 ILD, and add the soft layer only if needed.  I would rather set this up one time if I can, and since we are on a featherbed now, I really think we need that last soft layer. 

So, I've decided to go with the 6" 36 ILD, and I believe I will definitely get 2 more layers, one each of the 32 and 20 ILD Talalay.  My only question now is whether to get those both in 2" or if I should get the soft in a 3".  It maks about a $90 difference.  I'm not worried as much about the $90 as I am if 3" of the 20 ILD would be too much softness vs. getting that same thing in 2".  Any thoughts on this?

Option A :  6" 36 ILD + 2" 32 ILD + 2" 20 ILD or

Option B:  6" 36 ILD + 2" 32 ILD + 3" 20 ILD ? (All Talalay natural latex both options)

Thanks again!

My only concern for you would be to look at the life span of the foams if you use them with the talalay. The supersoft foam from FBM (aka Foam Factory) is only 2-5yrs:

http://www.thefoamfactory.com/tech/SuperSoftTech.html

Whereas the HD-36 foam is 12-18 yrs:

http://www.thefoamfactory.com/tech/HD36-HQTech.html

I started looking at this when I wanted to find out the life span of my "latex" mattress, which is made of various layers of foam topped with a 3" layer of 20 ILD dunlop. 

At 175lb 2" should work. I ordered 2" and I'm 265lb, but if that doesn't work for me, I'll just add another 2" layer. You'd be very fortunate to get it right the very first time without ever testing FBM's latex out. My order will be arriving Monday per FBM so if you haven't ordered before then I would let you know how the 2" layer feels to me

PS It seems the wool mattress pads are much more expensive than the cotton ones

N2S, I may not order until next week, so I'd love to know your impressions when you get yours in.  Particularly of the overall quality of the stuff from FBM.

I went over tonight and tried my friend's Habitatfurnishings Skybed (6" Dunlop 26 ILD + 3" Talalay 19 ILD) which he has on conventional box springs.  My first impressions were that the bed feels very cushy and comfortable, but I could tell right away it would be too soft for me.  When I laid on my stomach as I do to fall asleep, I could feel that I was sinking in too much in the mid-section causing my back to arch too much.  Since the knock on the FBM latex is that it is not as soft as advertised, I'm now thinking that this will suite my preferences just right.

This is all starting to come together for me, and I've decided (for now) to go with this setup from FBM:  6" 36 ILD + 2" 32 ILD + 2" 20 ILD

It seems like the St. Dormier mattress protector is the way to go, and I'm trying to find the best price on that now.

I've decided to replace my foundation, and it looks like the slat construction is the most recommended.  Trying to find the best bang for the buck here, but am considering just building my own and putting a mattress protector around it for aesthetics.  My friend's latex mattress on boxsprings made the bed pretty bouncy.  Compared to my current mattress setup with a static foundation, I didn't really like the feel of the extra bounce.  

So far, I like the feel of the S&F mostly latex mattress that I referenced in my earlier post the best out of everything that I've laid on.  In fact, it is the only mattress I've laid on that feels appreciably better to me than my current mattress.  Of course, it is loaded with inferior foams that will break down in 2 to 5 years, so there is no way I'm going to go with it.  I'm hoping that my DIY FBM bed can replicate this solid, yet comfortable feel with the durability of all latex.

-Cliff  

6" 36 ILD core + 2" 32 ILD mid-core + 2" 20 ILD topper (all 100% natural talalay), upgrade to 10" Terry cloth cover, at a cost of $1,216 total with free shipping.

I was going to order this foundation, but I'm now thinking of building my own.

Foundation (http://www.amazon.com/Thick-Foundation-memory-latex-mattresses/dp/B002RVCSRI/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1305859732&sr=8-3): $229  or DIY. 

Mattress Pad/Protector:  St. Dormier from Flobeds $160 http://www.flobeds.com/product_details.htm?ID=2140EK  or one with more cushioning.  I'm going to test the bed first to see if I need more of a pillowtop feel or if I like the feel of sleeping just on the latex.  If so, I'll go with the St. Dormier.  If not, I'll go with something like this: http://www.cuddledown.com/product/mattress-pads-protectors/temp-regulating-pads-protectors/ultimate-comfort-bamboo-mattress-pad.

I'll post my results when I receive the order.

Thanks for all of the help here figuring out where to start.

-Cliff

First of all, I would not buy a Sealy or Stearns latex mattress unless it is MUCH cheaper than buidling your own, which I doubt it could be. If anyone DOES buy an S Co. latex mattress be sure to read the Law Tag on the mattress which will tell you exactly the % of latex in it. Some mattress sales people will lie or are ignorant as to the specs, and the tag will tell the truth. I know S&F makes one that is 97% latex. I have seen 4 S&F latex mattresses and they range in latex from 87% to 97% latex. Synthetic latex, though; made by Sealy.

Now, as to making your own latex mattress. If "plush" is what you want I'd avoid Dunlop altogether. Dunlop is like a hard rubber floormat. That said, I am sleeping on a 2 ½ inch Dunlop layer under 2" of Talalay and it has been good for awhile though now I'm having issues with it. I have it on top of a bowed-wood foundation that gives it a little "spring" which I have always needed; I can't sleep on just pure latex without springs or something like springs. I have experimented with various DIY mattresses using Sealy and Englander springs for the base but I think my problem was that I used only cheap springs, never good ones. My next project will involve pocket coils under latex. At first I hated the Dunlop, it was way too firm/hard; it's the opposite of "plush". But as a base layer now I'm okay with it. Though whether it is optimal or not, I don't know.

If money is no object, I'd go with a Flobeds or a similar returnable latex mattress. Why? Because not everyone can sleep on latex without springs. My wife and I hate any foam mattress without springs under it. We tried Flobeds and were happy to be able to return it without any problems - just some shipping costs. And while your wife may not want the hassle of changing layers etc. since the weight difference is so wide between you, I think it would behoove you to give her a softer side and you a firmer side. And IF she doesn't like it, then you at least have an option to change it.

In my opinion the feather bed is giving you back pain. Feather beds - like memory foam - feel great, but provide little or no support.

Latex should have slats under it, not a solid piece of wood. The opinions on this vary but the guy from flobeds said he highly recommends slats to avoid any breathability/mold problems. I also believe that slats should help counter the potential for the latex to sleep too hot. That said, I have used latex and other foams directly on the floor and never had a problem with it. But if you do go with a non-slatted foundation check it at least once a month for moisture and mold.

If money is an issue like it is for many of us, then by all means build your own. In that case, I recommend buying a couple king size layers - they're usually cheaper that way (as opposed to 2 Twin XL layers) and buy them in 2 ILD's, like for example a 36 ILD 2" piece and a 32 ILD 2" piece. That way you can mix and match, put the 32ILD on top for one feel and the 36ILD on top for the other feel. Then on top of that you can put a 24ILD 1" piece over a 38ILD 1" piece. These 4 combinations give you a lot of flexibility in creating different feels. You may want to use those 4 pieces over a core that could be HR foam or latex, something firmer such as 36 or 38ILD. But the problem with DIY layers is that you're stuck with them, you can't return them if you decide you hate latex or bought the wrong kind or wrong ILD's. We have a closet full of memory foam and HR foam that we acquired in this manner. I keep thinking I should throw them out...

This all depends on how finicky a sleeper you might be. If you're the type who can sleep on anything then just buy something easy like a CostCo latex mattress that can be returned if you don't like it and make it easy on yourself! However if you feel you will need to adjust your mattress to find just the right feel(s), then you will want to buy something like a returnable Flobed or buy layers as I mentioned and cut them into halves, for 2 twin long sides of your bed, one for you and one for your wife. Then you can also add an inch of super soft ILD latex in a Twin Long piece and one of you may like it and one of you may not. Then if both of you like it, buy a 2nd one... See my thread in the Sticky section for how to cut latex.

jimsocal, thanks so much for the in-depth info.  One thing that I wanted to point out is that FBM does have a "30 day 100% Guarantee." 

Here are the details of the Guarantee:

"Exclusively for Latex Mattresses & Toppers
Guarantee: The Guarantee starts from the ship date (or invoice date for pickups). If a return is made, there will be a 100% product refund, minus any shipping and handling charges. Guarantee not valid for in-store pickup and is subject to a 25% restocking fee. The product must be returned in a like new condition. The Guarantee will be void if the product is resized or reshaped."
 

I inquired with a CSR there, and she confirmed by e-mail that typically they waive the 25% restocking fee if the item is returned in good condition.  So, while I'll have some cost to return, I'm not stuck with these pieces if we don't like how it sleeps.  Granted, this return policy is no where near as robust as flobeds or others, but at less than half the cost, it is a more than fair trade-off IMO.

I agree that TheLTFM has a great configuration and it is as good as any for others to try. I did not read the whole thread and was just answering the first post without having read the rest. Really it's all about what feel a person is looking for and by reading the options here on this forum they can probably "intuit" what to try.

I modified the top layer to 2" where he used 3" since my wife and I are stomach/back sleepers. 

Hi TheLFM,

Thanks for the credit! I was reading your post and noticed you bought close to the same setup as ours!  We've had ours close to a month now and look forward to going to sleep each night on HEAVEN! No more backaches. We still have the soft 3" topper on the 2" medium topper over the firm 6"  mattress. I though it might be to soft but it works fine for us in this configuration. If I slept on my stomach more I would try the medium over the soft topper to firm it up a little.

Just curious if you delt with Sarah over at FBM?

I hope you like your new Talalay latex mattress and toppers from FBM as much as we do.

Freedom1955