Mattress Forum

If you like 100% cotton sateen or twill weave, CR likes Wamsutta 1000 ($200) or Dreamzone ($150) (at Bed Bath & Beyond) or Home 600 TC at Target ($70).

If you like 100% cotton percale weave, they like LL Bean Pima Cotton Percale ($100).

They rated sheets on Fit, Strength, Shrinkage, Construction Quality, Softness, and Crispness.

So partly what you get depends on how you want your sheets to feel.   They say that Percale is closely woven and feels crisp, while sateen has a soft feel and glossy look.

Here they have a faily high turnover, so if you don't see anything you like, go back in a week or two.

I just bought a very nice set for under $30, that was $90 in the big box store where it came from.

500TC cotton, and they washed up incredibly soft and silky.

I think some people overrate thread count. I've had 300-400 TC that were wonderful, and 1000 TC that felt about as comfortable as burlap,

which is why I would never buy sheets online someplace like overstock.com. I want to FEEL the sheets before I buy them.

The quality of the yarn, and evenness of the weave are more important than thread count.

I was hoping I could get something not so costly. Maybe, if I shop hard enough ,I can find some of the cited sheets sets on sale at a lower price..

I think thats worth the effort.

Thanks.

If you see a 400 or higher thread count it is in all liklihood twisted yarns.  A 1020 strand count cotton sheet is a 3 or 4 ply thread (3 or 4 yarns twisted together into one 'rope' yarn) that has a thread count of either 340, or 255 respectively.  This is important to note because the same is true when you see a 400 thread count set of sheets....it is in all probability a 2 ply 200 thread count twisted yarn. The real thread count of a 400 thread count sheet is in some cases lower than a 300 thread count.  Just something to keep in mind, because thread count and strand count are two different things, and most labels are misleading, labelling the strand count and not the thread count as well. 

Note, I am not trying to say that twisted threads are a bad thing...they have a purpose....all things being equal twisted yarns that provide a higher strand count will be smoother to the touch and feel crisper, they can also last longer in some cases if good quality cotton is used.  On the flip side, a single ply thread will also be lighter and airier providing more breathability than higher strand counts will allow.  Thread count is not the ultimate measure of quality....much like buying a firm or soft mattress thread count can really be a preference. 

The biggest indicator of quality the type of cotton used.  Cotton is really measured in something called staple lengths, different types of cotton produce different staple lengths:

1. Sea Island Cotton
Sea Island Cotton is in extremely limited supply, and is very expensive to grow and to process. It is typically used in very expensive men's shirts.

2. Egyptian Cotton
Egyptian Cotton was developed from stocks that originated in South and Central America. Menoufi is the most widely used variety. The highly prized Giza variety has exceptionally strong fibers about 1½" long, and is used in the best qualities of embroidery thread, and the finest cotton fabrics for sheets, down bedding covers, and duvet tickings.

3. Pima Cotton
Pima cotton is in between Egyptian Cotton and American Upland long staple in length and price. It is very good quality.

4. American Upland Long Staple
This cotton is only "Long Staple" in comparison to American Upland Short Staple cotton. The American Upland cottons now comprise up to 90% of the worlds crop. They are much easier to grow and process, and are therefore much less costly. They are perfectly adequate for medium quality fabrics. They make poor downproof fabrics for duvets and pillows, as they will ultimately leak. They are also unsuitable for high thread count sheets, as they will feel limp and coarse after a few launderings. This is the cotton used in bargain duvets, and in inexpensive "luxury" sheets.

5. American Upland Short Staple
A less expensive version of cotton, and a very basic quality. Suitable for denim for blue jeans.

6. Asia Short Staple
Asia Short staple is very easy to grow and process, and hence makes very cheap cloth. Unfortunately, lightweight fabrics made from this cotton are very weak and limp. They wear out quickly, and launder poorly.

The whole idea with using good quality cotton is that there are less ends in the fabric to pull out and cause pilling, you can make the sheets very light weight and they will still be very strong and resist pilling if good quality cotton is used and they are loomed properly.  It is also important to note that most "egyptian cotton" sheets are not usually made out of egyptian cotton.  Most of the time the cotton will be 5~10% Egyptian cotton content and the rest will be a much cheaper variety of cotton.  Also....sheets made in Egpyt does not mean it is made with "egyptian cotton".  It is very important to note that Egpytian cotton is referring to a species of plant that can be grown in a few places, it could be grown in Egpyt, it could be grown in Israel, or in Turkey as well I am sure there are other climates that can support it.  Most cotton grown in Egpyt is not from this species of plant. 

Diane

  http://www.costco.com/Browse/Productgroup.aspx?Prodid=11220877&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&eCat=BC|62415|62649&N=4018510&Mo=12&No=13&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=62649&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-US

Diane

I've been humming and hawwing over doing some new bedding this year and think at the end of the month I will be doing all new linen sheets and a silk duvet

 http://www.comphy.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=70&Itemid=70      same as Costco

I know one time I was at JCPenney's and could not believe the 400 thread count felt so much nicer than the 650 thread count for the same price. I bought the 400 thread count that said it was made with Pima cotton. 

Years ago, I had bought pillow cases with a 200 thread count and they were too rough for me to sleep on. Hence, by trial and error I learned that the thread count should be at least 300 thread count but then other variable influence if I will be happy with the sheets so I prefer to buy in a store where I can feel what I am buying. 

Your explanation helped the most so I really thank you.

First of all, 100% cotton is a must.

Secondly, a higher thread count means, to me, that it will not breathe as well and will make me sweat during the night, especially in the summer.

I don't know the exact thread count I like but I have found that too low of a thread count is too stiff and "scratchy" - and not comfortable; while a higher thread count is very soft and luxurious - but will sleep too hot for me.

So the best sheets are 100% cotton and somewhere in the middle of the thread count range. Maybe 300? 350? Not sure, but the best way to tell is go to the store and feel them and I usually get the lowest thread count that feels soft enough for me to be comfortable with it.

The other night I bought a twin sheet set at walmart. Advertised as 300tc 100%  egyptian cotton. "Simply solids". The price was around $18.00.

At first these sheets felt a little scratchy. That was the 1st night. The second night(last night), I had no problem. I think anything I do to my bed requires at least one night to adjust. Tonight will be night #3. I'll see how that goes. Of course, as usual, for my wife Its lights out zzzzzzzz. Whatever happens. She'd probably do the same on a concrete floor..

But the hunt is still on, and thanks to this forum I finally feel like Im getting somewhere.

One question I havent seen addressed here is price vs quality. Does higher price, necessarily mean better?

The other interesting thing is the whole twin xl buisness. After much angst over shopping for that size, I got just desperate enough to try a regular twin. My mattress is 9' thick, so I got a twin that will fit "up to" an 18"thick mattress. The results, after washing(they shrunk a little), is that they fit. Not perfectly. But, after you spend several days looking for twin xl, you should be happy with twin regular. I am. This may change if there is more shrinking at the next wash. We shall see.

On the extreme end of high quality there really is no such thing as buying power in the equation....the price is driven by the demand and the limited quantity of the luxury goods.  A 300TC cotton fitted sheet in a queen can be anywhere between $15 or $350.  Is the $350 dollar sheet 23 times better?  Probably not, but it will be substantially better in every way.  So pricing is relative to quality but because of many circumstances it is not always directly proportionate.  I would argue that for the really discerning sheet afficionados that it usually is worth the premium for the best....it lives up to expectations.  If you buy a sheet that you are not happy with then you always paid too much no matter how good the bargain is...because in the end you will only have to repeat the process.

From an actual cotton exporter:

"Today Egypt is producing cotton in a wide range of qualities and staple lengths from 1.5/32” up to 1.1/2”. The following table gives a short overview of the available varieties:

All Egyptian cotton is handpicked and roller ginned (which is the best method to maintain quality) in order to preserve its unique fiber characteristics. The varieties Giza 87 and Giza 45 are among the finest types of cotton in the world. They are planted on a very limited scale and sold at a price about five times higher than prices for normal upland cottons.

For decades growing cotton has been an important part of the Egyptian economy. Cotton was Egypt’s number one export product for many years, and still remains a very important source of cash income for the Egyptian farmer. In the countryside, cotton is a way of life since the needs of the cotton plant during its vegetative cycle influence many aspects of the daily life of small farmers in the Nile Delta and the Nile Valley."

Just posting as an example....most cotton grown in Egypt just like other regions in the world is not actually true long staple cotton, if its from a registered long staple seed then the price is so much higher that you simply will not find a queen set of sheets below a few hundred dollars unless massively discounted.

Thanks for all the good info.

Two things: (1). If the sheet is not made from "real" Egyptian cotton, what could it be made of.( 2.) If its not real Egyptian cotton, how can they get away with saying that it is? 

Latest report on the walmart $18.00 sheets:

The sheets are  "ok".  Acceptable to me, at this point. I can lay on them and go to sleep.  Ive never owned a really high quality set of sheets, So  beyond that I wouldnt know the difference. But Iam tempted to splurge, just to see.

Consumer reports listed the 600tc Home(something) about $60.00 at target as top drawer.  Also someone reported here, in this thread, sheets at costco for about $90.00. Could you recommend a set that gets closer to the ideal, at a reasonable cost. Something a little bit special.

Thanks again.

basically the remainder of the cotton would most likely be american upland long staple as 90% of the worlds crop is this variety. 

"In the world marketplace, many cheap cottons are also being referred to as "Egyptian Cotton". If an Egyptian Cotton article seems to be a very low price, it is probably not genuine. There are three things to be aware of when you are purchasing Egyptian cotton linens. First of all, there are the contents - Some fabrics are labeled as Egyptian cotton when in fact they have a tiny percentage of genuine Egyptian cotton ~ say 5% or so. Second of all, the definition of "Egyptian Cotton" in some dictionaries is simply any finely woven cotton ~ this does rather leave the door open. Lastly, cotton grown in the country of Egypt may sound expensive and high in quality, but can be any variety. Since American Upland cottons (which are a much shorter fiber) now comprise 90% of the world's crop, it is a safe assertion that this might be in the package

Referring to the image on the right, the ivory colored sheet on the right sells for about four times as much money as the copper colored one on the left. They are both 300 Thread Count fabrics, both feel very nice and soft to the touch, and they are both labeled as being Egyptian cotton. You cannot normally see the difference, so the customer is left wondering why they should pay the higher price.

If you compare these same fabrics magnified many times, you can now see the difference. There is an enormous difference in the quality of these two fabrics. The genuine Egyptian cotton has a very smooth surface, with only an occasional tiny fiber raised from the surface. The copper colored fabric has many fiber ends standing up. It is obviously made from an inexpensive, short staple cotton, because of this "furring".

Both 300 thread count fabrics: One made with genuine Egyptian cotton (right), and the other made with cheap, short staple cotton (left).

The long fibers in Egyptian cotton have a lot more surface and length to "grab" each other, with a lot fewer ends to lift out of the thread. This makes the thread much stronger, and the resulting fabric much smoother and more resistant to pilling.

The long fiber of the Egyptian cotton means that there are very few breaks between the fibers when twisted into a thread. However the short fibers of cheap cotton mean that there are many breaks. There are a lot more fiber ends and these show up on the surface.

The short fibers in cheap cottons mean the thread will be much weaker, with a lot more ends to lift out of the thread. The resulting fabric will wear out much faster, and be far more likely to pill.

There are many other factors that will affect the quality of the fabric. These factors include: the way the thread is spun, the way it is woven, and the way it is dyes and finished. There are many technical variances. There are good methods, and there are cheap methods. "

I really think for the genuine article it is best to watch for a special deal on a brand that only makes the real deal....like Sferra, St. Geneve, Schlossberg.  Once in a while they will have a fabric they need to clear out and will reduce the price dramatically.  Even after discount it may not still be called cheap but it certainly would be a lot easier to justify the price difference.

Thank you.