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This mattress was bought at CostCo 4 years ago. Over a year ago it started to give my wife and I back problems but we had been in an accident and did not realize it was the MATTRESS that was at least half or more of the problem - we thought it was just because of the accident. The accident did indeed cause us problems - especially me - but it became clear over the past few months that this mattress (actually 2 twins that we put side by side) was the problem. So... Today we decided to open up the mattress and see what was inside, and then go down to the foam store where I found out I can buy 1" of HR foam (high resiliency - a very high quality) for $24 in the twin size. So we opened up the mattress on the top seams on 3 sides with an exacto knife. This turned out to be incredibly easy, we just put the knife along the seams - which are held together with a piece of cloth tubing about 1/4" in diameter. So we just ran the knife along the cloth tubing where the top seam is. Once we cut about 6" of this tubing that covers the seam off, we could then grab hold of it and just pull, tearing it off all along the edges of the bed. We did have to use the knife to get the tubing off in a couple areas, but for the most part, it just pulled right off very easily and cleanly. We just tore off the seam /tubing on 3 edges leaving the long edge of one side of the mattress attached so we could open it up like a flap on a box, to get the foam out (and later put new foam in). So when we got the seam cut so we could open up the top and see inside the mattress, we were really shocked. We didn't expect it to be made very well, but we didn't think it would be as crappily made as it was, either. We saw 4 layers of foam on top of the springs, about 3 and 3/4" of the crappiest, cheapest, softest foam you could imagine. Not one firm layer, not even over the springs. Over the springs - which are held together on top with a kind of "chicken wire" - wire divided into small squares - was about a 1/4" layer of memory foam - yes ONE QUARTER inch of memory foam! Why they would put memory foam on the bottom I have no idea. Seems to me that is where you want something firm. Over that there were 2 layers of 1" foam, just cheap polyurethane foam, not even hd, just cheap crappy VERY SOFT cheap foam. Then on the top layer there is a 1 and 1/2" piece of convoluted memory foam, of medium quality - the type you could probably buy on sale as a topper for maybe $20-35. And that's it! No wonder our backs have been killing us! Absolutely NO support at all over the springs, just 3 and 3/4" of the worst, softest foams. Check out my slide show, here of how we cut it apart and what we found inside: (takes about 60 seconds to see the whole group of slides. You need Flash to view it. Most computers do have Flash installed these days. If not, it's free to get and install.) http://img134.imageshack.us/slideshow/player.php?id=img134/1785/1201983161pn8.smil (this link requires that your computer have Flash.) Let me know if you do have flash but it doesn't work. (I wanted to put it up on a page somewhere as just a page of photos but couldn't find an easy place to do that. Anyone know where I could do that, where I could link to just the 8 or so photos and they'd be avalable to the public via this thread, for all time?) So, the plan was to go buy a layer of 1" HR FIRM or VERY FIRM foam to put over the top of the springs (now I'm wondering: do we need 1" or would half an inch be enough, and should it be VERY firm or just FIRM?), but we called before we left just to make sure they were indeed open on Saturday as they said they would be, but they were closed at 10:30am when we called. (This is a warehouse, not a store, so selling foam to me for my mattress is just something they do on the side, not something they stay open for.) So we were forced to improvise until Monday or Tuesday when we can get down there to buy the foam. So, we really had nothing but super soft foam to work with - even the other foam we have is all soft memory foam in 2" and 3" layers, and then we have 2 x 3/4" layers of soft latex, but even that is harder than any of the foam they had inside the Sealy! So what I did was I cut up a big cardboard box and used a layer of firm thick cardboard over the springs. Then I put one layer of the 3/4" latex over the cardboard, and the 1/4" layer of memory foam over that. It actually felt like it was giving me enough support and that I wouldn't feel the springs. I'm doubtful it will feel great, but how much worse could it feel than all that soft cheap foam? If it really kills me I'll try putting the other layer of 3/4 latex on top of everything else. Note that this is just for the weekend or until Monday or Tuesday when we can get the layer of HR foam to put over the springs instead of the cardboard. And we'll also be buying various cut pieces of HR foam in 1" thicknesses that we can use for zoning and layering in a component style. See my other thread in which I give my plan for building up this mattress. The only other comment I have to give, here, is that even the springs seem very shoddy. They are not damaged, they are all in place. But they just seem very weak and soft, not what I really want to be sleeping on. But since we have them, we may as well see how they feel with various densities of good foam and latex on top. This message was modified Feb 2, 2008 by jimsocal
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True. They're all guilty. And, I'm even a little leary of McCroskey mattresses with all that cotton inside. I've heard that cotton can attract mites and mold. In fact, the woman who spoke to me on the phone said if there's any chance of dampness or mildew in your bedroom, a McCroskey wouldn't be a good mattress choice. At least she was honest, unlike some of the Big S companies. Quoted: Sealy isn't the only one that puts junk in mattresses ;http://www.savvyrest.com/mattress-industry-today/mattress-morgue/index.php This message was modified Feb 4, 2008 by BeddyBye
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Where do you live, Jim? I'm thinking from your username, Southern Ca? The guy who owns Bay Bed and Mattress where I bought my "custom mattress" can get the coil units from Leggett & Platt. Originally mine came with an individually pocketed Marshall coil unit. It was too conforming, (or at least he and I came to that conclusion), so he took it out and exchanged it with a LuraFlex coil unit. It was $50 per XL Twin. What he does is put the spring unit within a very dense foam encasement that he cuts so the coils will fit in perfectly. When he changed my coils, he had to take back the mattress so he could cut the foam a bit because the LuraFlex unit was a bit wider than the pocketed coils. This foam encasement makes for a nice edge. He did tell me the foam edge would alter the way the bed would feel in the MIDDLE if we chose XL Twins vs. one Eastern King. The edge essentially would be in the middle, as well. No problem. No one sleeps in the middle anyway. He could have built our mattress in separate layers or maybe just the comfort layers and still have it as one King. But, I wanted TWO individual XL Twins. I just like having my own mattress through and through. Anyway, after he put the fiber-mat-covered coil unit into this thick, HR foam "frame", he then builds the bed by adding anything from 3/4" HR PU foam (ie; 55 or 45 ILD). Then he adds two 1" layers of latex. I happened to like firm, so I wanted 44 and 32 ILD. I actually have two in 32 ILD if I want to switch around. The zippered mattress cover is a quilted fabric with poly filling. The set includes a matching foundation (firm, not bouncy.) He told me that he prefers to get some of his mattress "parts" from smaller companies who will give him personal attention or be able to customize according to his needs. I like that! I hope he intends to be around for a long time! They've been in business about 16 years. I noticed they have a new website and he calls his custom mattresses "Bay Mattress". Notice it doesn't start with an "S"? LOL I notice that his model, "Royale" has FOUR layers of talalay latex over the coils. I wonder if this is a taller mattress than mine. I can only get 3 layers of latex, barely. I'm assuming he uses 1" on all of them. He doesn't mention the Dunlopillo thick core all-latex mattress he sells. You might want to check around where you live and see if anyone has a set-up like he does. Maybe they would sell you a coil unit or even layers of latex. http://www.baybed.com/ jimsocal wrote: Yeah, I saw that page on "the mattress morgue" the other day. This is a good place to post it.</p><p>This all makes me realize that even if my springs don't work out, I will either buy a cheap mattress with better springs and take it apart and make my own mattress, or see if there's some local factory where they would sell me just the springs, so I could replace them inside the Sealy cover, and go from there.</p><p>I doubt that ANY mattress - or hardly any - would be as good - or as flexible - as I can make it myself, by taking it apart like this and puttiing in my own foam on top of the springs. If these don't work out I'll look for a not-too-used matress or a cheap new one that has better springs. I know that if you dig into web sites or just call the manufacturers or whatever, you can usually find out the exact type of springs - type of coil, guage of wire, how they are tied together, etc.</p><p>I would never have bought this Sealy if I knew how crappy the foam was inside. I knew it had x amount of foam, but they don't tell you the ILD of the foam, so I had no idea it had THAT much super soft low quality foam inside.</p><p>I can't believe we slept on it for as long as we did! |
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The doorskin did the trick! But, for me, I think maybe TOO much. They now sit under our trash cans outside.:) It's a great way to firm up your springs, though. But unless you like a rock-hard sleeping surface, be prepared to soften it up with a lot of toppers or softer latex inside. Since all my latex is firmer, it just didn't work for me. My HR "base PU foam" is 3/4". At first I used one 55 (bottom) and one 45 over that and then added a 1" layer of 44 ILD latex. It seemed too firm. Then I made the mistake of adding too many toppers on the outside of mattress to make it softer. Just too much soft foam. So presently I have one 3/4" base layer of PU foam (55 ILD). On top of that are two 32 ILD latex layers. Firm, but cushy. The CuddleBed fitted fiber topper helps to make it softer, but not sinking. I think my husband's side is similar, except he has both the 55 and 45 PU layers in, as well as a 44 ILD latex layer. Firmer than my side. He's a stomach sleeper a lot of the time, so this works out better. Over my LuraFlex coil unit is a strong fiber mat built right into the unit. In other words, not something that I can just lift off. This makes it so you can put foam or latex directly on to the coils without having it go down into the coils or have it cut up. Of course, a doorskin would make a nice platform, too. But, remember, it will definitely turn your mattress into a super firm one! BR><BR><BR><BR> cloud9 wrote: Absolutely fascinating! Really makes me want to take my mattress apart right now and replace the crap that's got to be in there--especially when my back starts killing me when I'm watching TV. And this thing is supposed to be a so-called luxury firm. Not! <p>I don't think I will ever buy another mattress again. I just plan to build my own. My only concern is that the innerspring unit I'm counting on will turn out to be as crappy as the foam on top of it, Even though you keep hearing how the coil unit will last forever, I have to wonder why manufacturers would bother putting a high quality innerspring into a mattress that's really only going to last as long as the cheap PU foam inside it. Although I gotta say the cutaway of the mattress I bought looked like it had a much more heavy duty coil unit inside. If that's really what they put in...</p><p>Thanks for going there! I loved your slideshow.</p><p>Oh, and just a thought. Try the half inch of HR foam first. You can always add another half if it's not enough. And if your innerspring is still too soft, you might try doing what BeddyBye did to firm it up. A sheet of 1/4&quot; doorskin plywood over the coils. Might be a little more durable than cardboard if the HR foam alone doesn't do it.<BR> <BR>This message was modified Feb 4, 2008 by BeddyBye
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Jim, thanks for sharing your dissection of your Sealy mattress...very interesting and informative. I hope that you find a solution to help make this mattress comfortable for you. It's such a waste and bad for the environment that many of the mattresses made with materials (cheap PU foams, etc) that aren't durable end up as trash in a landfill. I'm sure the big-name mattress manufacturers know that the foams they use aren't very durable and won't even last through the entire warranty of a mattress. It can take them just about an hour to make a mattress. Do they care that many of their mattresses end up as trash in landfills? It comes down to making money for them. If they would only make higher quality mattresses instead of putting cheap crap on the market, there would be less of a chance that a customer has to have the mattress exchanged under the warranty or has to buy a replacement mattress and throw out the defective one. Mattresses used to be flippable (there are still some made that way), and so that increased the lifespan of a mattress. It's become a disposable society...things just aren't made like they used to be. Anyway, Jim, I really hope you get this mattress to be comfortable for you. I applaude you for taking it apart and trying to work with the rest of the mattress sans the cheap foam. Please let us know the end result. |
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centralpark wrote: Jim, thanks for sharing your dissection of your Sealy mattress...very interesting and informative. I hope that you find a solution to help make this mattress comfortable for you. It's such a waste and bad for the environment that many of the mattresses made with materials (cheap PU foams, etc) that aren't durable end up as trash in a landfill. I'm sure the big-name mattress manufacturers know that the foams they use aren't very durable and won't even last through the entire warranty of a mattress. It can take them just about an hour to make a mattress. Do they care that many of their mattresses end up as trash in landfills? It comes down to making money for them. If they would only make higher quality mattresses instead of putting cheap crap on the market, there would be less of a chance that a customer has to have the mattress exchanged under the warranty or has to buy a replacement mattress and throw out the defective one. Mattresses used to be flippable (there are still some made that way), and so that increased the lifespan of a mattress. It's become a disposable society...things just aren't made like they used to be. Anyway, Jim, I really hope you get this mattress to be comfortable for you. I applaude you for taking it apart and trying to work with the rest of the mattress sans the cheap foam. Please let us know the end result. Thanks for the encouraging words, and I totally agree with you about the mattress companies - especially the big 3 "S" brands - doing a terrible disservice, not only to our backs, but also to the environment! Surely these things are filling up the earth and air with toxins from the foam sooner and more than need be. The whole one-sided mattress idea was a bad one, like you said. They used to at least be flippable so you could keep it from wearing out as quickly. it's just pure greed at work. Anything for a buck. The environment: "Who gives a damn, as long as our corporation does good this year?! People's backs: Who cares? If they're stupid enough to buy this crappy soft mattress, it's not OUR fault!" Ultimately I guess we consumers do have to take some of the blame for buying this crap. Well, I got fooled once; I won't get fooled again! And I will tell everyone I know never to buy a Sealy! But more importantly, I still just cannot believe the quality of the foam Sealy put into this mattress. I mean, I wish you could feel it! I've been to foam warehouses and felt many foams, and 4 years ago I experimented with many types of foam - mostly HR (high resiliency) and HD (high density) polyurethane foams, so I know a bit about foam, at least on an experiential level But anyone with no experience whatsoever would not choose the foam Sealy put into this mattress. If you were picking out foam for a mattress, even if you knew NOTHING about foam, you would touch and squeeze this stuff that was inside the Sealy and you would say, "NO WAY I'm putting THAT crap inside my mattress! It will give NO support, at all!" So, in the first place, it isn't even good that they put this crap in there in the first place. But surely they know it will not last more than a year or two before it breaks down and begins to hurt people's backs and end up in the landfill. I think in the beginning, it is more likely that the tightness of the cover is a factor in making the mattress feel that it has some support! Certainly it is not the foam they put in there. What I learned from this is that next time I buy a bed, if I don't go with pure foam - that is if I feel I need springs - I will try to find the cheapest mattress on the market with good quality springs and get the most basic model with NO padding - "extra firm". Then I will cut it open right at the start and put my own foam inside! Latex, 5lb memory foam, and HR foam of various densities in a component, 3-zoned system of 25" thirds. |
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Jim, I couldn't have said it better myself. I can truly imagine how flimsy that foam is in your Sealy mattress. I'm keeping my fingers crossed about my new Sealy from Costco...right now it's comfy (the first night was hell, though). But I've noticed that the foam is a little compressed where I've been sleeping in the center of the mattress...if it compresses too much, then my back won't like it. On the web site www.baybed.com/faq.htm, they state: "Most manufacturers use the lowest grade of foam–a 1.2 lb density (1.2 lbs per cubic foot). We use latex foam rubber, which weights 3 to 4 times as much and will retain its original height and firmness the longest." For most large mattress manufacturers, it's all about making a buck, and using cheap foams means higher profits as well as the fact that the mattresses are not made to last, so people end up buying another mattress within a shorter period of time than years ago when mattresses were flippable. They could use higher quality foams...doing so would mean less warranty claims and better customer satisfaction and longer lasting mattresses. They could make flippable mattresses. I don't know who the heck made the decision to do away with flippable mattresses. Oh, and many mattress sales people highly promote the pillowtops, but a large majority of these pillowtops contain the low density PU foams...then the uneducated consumer learns in time that the foam compresses and forms deep body impressions. I like what you're doing to your Sealy mattress. If the springs are in good condition and are supportive, then I believe you can create a comfortable mattress with layers of high quality foams like latex. You are doing with your mattress what most people wouldn't even try to do because they either wouldn't think of that idea or can't be bothered buying foam and taking their mattress apart. |
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I like how my mattress guy, Dan, from Bay Bed, actually has the samples right there to show people the difference between the GOOD stuff and the CHEAP foams used in mainstream mattresses. He said that PU does NOT have to be low quality. But, again, how is the unsuspecting consumer supposed to know that? Duped! centralpark wrote: Jim, I couldn't have said it better myself.</p><p>I can truly imagine how flimsy that foam is in your Sealy mattress. I'm keeping my fingers crossed about my new Sealy from Costco...right now it's comfy (the first night was hell, though). But I've noticed that the foam is a little compressed where I've been sleeping in the center of the mattress...if it compresses too much, then my back won't like it.</p><p>On the web site www.baybed.com/faq.htm, they state: "Most manufacturers use the lowest grade of foam–a 1.2 lb density (1.2 lbs per cubic foot). We use latex foam rubber, which weights 3 to 4 times as much and will retain its original height and firmness the longest." For most large mattress manufacturers, it's all about making a buck, and using cheap foams means higher profits as well as the fact that the mattresses are not made to last, so people end up buying another mattress within a shorter period of time than years ago when mattresses were flippable. They could use higher quality foams...doing so would mean less warranty claims and better customer satisfaction and longer lasting mattresses. They could make flippable mattresses. I don't know who the heck made the decision to do away with flippable mattresses. Oh, and many mattress sales people highly promote the pillowtops, but a large majority of these pillowtops contain the low density PU foams...then the uneducated consumer learns in time that the foam compresses and forms deep body impressions.</p><p>I like what you're doing to your Sealy mattress. If the springs are in good condition and are supportive, then I believe you can create a comfortable mattress with layers of high quality foams like latex. You are doing with your mattress what most people wouldn't even try to do because they either wouldn't think of that idea or can't be bothered buying foam and taking their mattress apart. |
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centralpark wrote: Do they care that many of their mattresses end up as trash in landfills? It comes down to making money for them. If they would only make higher quality mattresses instead of putting cheap crap on the market, there would be less of a chance that a customer has to have the mattress exchanged under the warranty or has to buy a replacement mattress and throw out the defective one. On the subject of warranties: They're a real joke. In many cases they make it so difficult to actually get the mattress replaced under warranty they know few people will even bother. For instance, they measure body impressions with a sting and a ruler, ignoring the fact that when you actually lie on the mattress the sag is much deeper. The owner is responsible for getting the mattress back to the particular regional factory in which it was made. So if the store you bought it from has gone out of business or won't handle the pick up and delivery you are on your own. Or if you've moved out of state good luck with that. To add insult to injury most standard mattress warranties are prorated. Your cost is based on the number of years you have owned the mattress and the warranty period. And not at the price you purchased the mattress, but at the so-called retail price--which is a an inflated figure the mattress is never actually sold at. It's just a way for the manufacturer to soak the customer for more money on that piece of crap they've already paid too much for. Unless your mattress breaks down within the first year, you're better off just opening the top and replacing the foam yourself. You can swap out the low density crap inside with high quality foams for less than the manufacturer is going to charge you under their equally crappy prorated warranty. This message was modified Feb 8, 2008 by cloud9
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You're right about the ridiculousness of mattress warranties. Furthermore, on the 4 year old Sealy above, there were no indentations whatsoever in the mattress. The way they make the cover I don't think it would ever get an indentation. It isn't a matter of "indentation" it's a matter of cheap crappy foam that just gives out, gets softer than it already was, and provides less support. Foam - especially low quality foam and memory foam - tends to get way softer over time. Latex does not do this as much, hardly at all. And good quality foam like 15 year rated Qualux HR foam that we bought for the innards of this Sealy, does not get that much softer. It may get softer, but not so much that it would stop giving support after 3-4 years. I have not tested this yet but I believe it to be true. In any case, we bought it in layers and zones so that it will be easy and cheap to replace layers in the mid section (middle zone) if need be. That is IF we don't use latex, which we probably will, soon. Right now I'm just experimenting with ILD's of the HR foam in order to get a sense of how firm of a mid-section I want. Last night I realized that ANY sinking at all of my hip section causes me pain at this point. So I replaced the Medium over Firm with Firm over Very Firm in that section. |
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centralpark wrote: Jim, I couldn't have said it better myself. I can truly imagine how flimsy that foam is in your Sealy mattress. I'm keeping my fingers crossed about my new Sealy from Costco...right now it's comfy (the first night was hell, though). But I've noticed that the foam is a little compressed where I've been sleeping in the center of the mattress...if it compresses too much, then my back won't like it. ...
I guarantee you that even if your's is a better model, it will still be full of cheap crappy foam. This is apparent from your saying how it is already a little compressed in the center. Unless you want to open it up and build your own mattress as I am doing (a valid strategy, since the springs do seem to be fine), why would you even consider keeping it, especiallly with CostCo's great return policy? |