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From 2005ish to 2009, I had a knock-off air mattress that at my younger age, slept fine. It eventually leaked and I have been an unhappy sleeper since then.
In early 2009, went to the SAT bed but didn't like it. Later in 2009, went to the FloBed which is what I have now. I awake now every morning with moderate to severe tightness in the sacral area and laterally on both sides of my lower back. I'm on a med over firm over firm grouping of layers. Additionally, I tend to sleep in the middle of the bed and move around a bit, and I feel the separation between the two sides of the bed and it is annoying. I ham seriously questioning staying with the FloBed and at times am ready to throw it away....the pain is approaching unbearable. Within my 90 days, I switched out from firmer cores to softer, and have played with numerous combinations from med/firm/firm to soft/soft/med all with pain. I am 6ft, 200 lbs, and honestly, seem to sleep on back, side and front at various stages through the night. I am looking for suggestions on where to go from here. I honestly don't know if I need a firmer mattress, a softer mattress, an inner-spring mattress or what. I don't even care that it will cost me $5000 at this point. So, will Temperpedic be essentially the same? Thoughts about Select Comfort/Comfortaire? Lastly, innerspring? I've looked at Royal Pedic in a store here and they seem like an expensive possibility. Any other thoughts? I guess 1) how do I know what firmness level to get? Are there any options scientifically/objectively to help make this decision?
Chris This message was modified Dec 17, 2010 by texfire
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I personally would try to determine WHY you are having the issues you are having which will give you a much better idea of where to go next. If you can remember the layering schemes you have tried and what happened with each it may be possible to "fix" what you have now. Failing that even a bit of experimentation with what you have could give you very valuable information about what is suitable for you in any kind of mattress. Playing with exchanges without knowing the effect every exchange will have on every other layer of your mattress often leads to the kind of frustration (and pain) you are experiencing now. While soft over medium over firm is a very common construction and is sometimes the safest "approximation", it is not always the best. It sounds to me like you are a fairly "wild" sleeper and the pain you are feeling may be coming from various contortions and twisting that is happening in your sleep and/or inappropriate layer combinations which are leading to muscle tension while you sleep. It may be worth giving things one more shot to see if you can resolve things with what you have or at least get to know what kind of mattress may work better. I certainly wouldn't throw $5000 at any mattress in the hopes that the price would make it in any way more suitable for you. So, will Temperpedic be essentially the same? No, Much different ... appropriate or not and which specific model would depend on knowing what is suitable for you ... short term and long term. Some thoughts on memory foam in general are here http://www.whatsthebest-mattress.com/forum/pros-cons-memory-foam-beyond-hype/16155-0-1.html Draft 2 in Reply #8 is probably better than the original post (although it's still long). Thoughts about Select Comfort? And air mattresses in general (reply #3 if you feel like reading another long post). http://www.whatsthebest-mattress.com/forum/flobeds-airbed/15401-A-1.html Lastly, innerspring? I've looked at Royal Pedic in a store here and they seem like an expensive possibility. Innersprings may be an easier way to get to an appropriate construction for many reasons but without knowing why you would choose one you may end up spending even more money on something that wouldn't work for you. You may have essentially the same issues as your Flobeds. The layer construction is critical with any mattress ... latex, innerspring, memory foam, and anything else. An innerspring construction may be easier to get right though and some thoughts on that are in reply 31 www.whatsthebest-mattress.com/forum/overstuffing-mattress-case-foam-layers/16508-0-1.html (if you feel like reading yet another long post :)). Price for a mattress does not "translate" into suitability for an individual. Phoenix This message was modified Dec 8, 2010 by Phoenix
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| tp seems nice in begining but then my body strated to have pains and`aches. i woke up with aches in parts i did not have before. i returned my tp. |
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Thanks for the reply. I've tried to go back and figure out what I've done, but since it's been over a years time, I can't speak to much specifics. What I have currently ( I was in error in original post) is from top to bottom.... 1) 1.5 inch convoluted latex 2) 2.75 ILD 28 Med latex 3) 2.75 ILD 32 Firm latex 4) 2.75 ILD 32 Firm latex.
My symptoms are lower lumbar pain and tightness. I originally started with a Med/Firm/XFirm but returned it. I must have felt it was too firm ( I dont' have great recollection). honestly now I can't tell if my bed is too soft or too firm and don't know which avenue to begin going down to fix it. Any helpful suggestions? Chris |
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This is just a quick "stab in the dark" without a real history but it sure looks to me like what you have may (possibly) be too firm on top and (almost certainly) too thick and soft underneath. What you may have needed originally was something softer on top rather than underneath. With a mattress that thick and given what you are describing, it's quite likely that you need something firmer in the mid/lower layers. You are probably "fighting" to stay aligned in your sleep which would account for the moving around and the symptoms you feel. The first thing I would do is remove a 32 layer (I know it won't fill your cover anymore) and see what that feels like and if it "moves" in the right direction. Phoenix |
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Phoenix wrote: This is just a quick "stab in the dark" without a real history but it sure looks to me like what you have may (possibly) be too firm on top and (almost certainly) too thick and soft underneath. What you may have needed originally was something softer on top rather than underneath. With a mattress that thick and given what you are describing, it's quite likely that you need something firmer in the mid/lower layers. You are probably "fighting" to stay aligned in your sleep which would account for the moving around and the symptoms you feel. The first thing I would do is remove a 32 layer (I know it won't fill your cover anymore) and see what that feels like and if it "moves" in the right direction.
Phoenix So, interestingly I put in on Flobeds website my stats and it suggests now XF over F over XF, or to put the Firm over the two XF's if I want it softer. Perhaps I'm way too soft overall. What you are asking me to try in order from top to bottom is Conv Latex, 28 Med and 32 Firm... that's it? I roughly grasp the idea of wanting a firm 'bottom' part of the mattress for support and a softer 'top' part for comfort. How I do this with 4 layers confuses me though. How does removing one firm layer help that? is two firm layers actually softer (as one layer gets you closer to the slats?). What's the reasoning behind the websites suggestion of putting the softer layer in the middle, surrounded by two firmer layers? I would think you'd advance firmness as you went down.... Thanks for sorting me out and I'll try this for the next few nights.... Oh, would you suggest I try to get a soft core to replace the top layer? maybe go a Soft over ? Over Superfirm?
chris |
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Yes, just the 3 layers. The two layers underneath would be more compressed and firmer underneath than the 3 (foam gets firmer with compression) and what I'm trying to do is get you as firm "under" as I can to stop you from sinking in so much. It shouldn't make too much difference for pressure issues as the comfort layers are the same. The 28 may be OK for you as a comfort layer so I would first try this and see what your experience is. Once we have a clearer idea from a night or two on this it will make it easier to decide where to go next. Phoenix PS: I wouldn't put too much stock in the "advisor" since it is way too general and primarily weight based. There are too many things it doesn't take into account IMO. I'm 6.5 and 195 so I got "similar" suggestions to you which would have been way off for me. This message was modified Dec 16, 2010 by Phoenix
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Well I've slept without one FIRM layer for two nights now. I think it is a step in the right direction. I still have back pain but it is somewhat less, and could be residual pain from before the switch. I think I do need more inches of foam, as it feels a little bit like I can feel the wood underneath (although I'm on around 7 inches of latex). What would be the next step if the back pain say a) resolves or b) stays but at less intensity....
thanks, chris |
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I find it's always a little confusing to go by what different places call firm and soft. I think that 32 would pretty much be considered medium though and it's likely you need something that was actually firm. I would try this for another night or two if you are OK with it as it would be good to confirm that it is making a difference. It's unlikely that you are "bottoming out" onto the wood but the thinner compressed foam may well feel "harder" to you. The layering you had is pretty much the same as having a single 9" slab of "medium as the difference between 28 and 32, expecially considering the variances that are possible in ILD's, is not really significant and to most people would be hard to detect. I would be interested to see how this felt for a couple more nights (if you can) in terms of pressure relief/comfort as well as any further change in "alignment pain" so we can get a sense of what ILD on top feels comfortable to you as well as what you need (firmer) underneath. Phoenix This message was modified Dec 17, 2010 by Phoenix
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Hi, I am male 170 lb (close to your 200lb), and am a "flipper" (side and back sleeper, perhaps 60/40%) w/lower back pain (lumbar). I went through 25 mattresses, the $6k and many toppers before doing mattress surgery. Search shovel99 and you will pull up my comments.. but I update them here. I went from waking up in shooting pain every day from the mattress/topper hunt ... decided to do "mattress surgery with help from comments and postings from jimsocal, sandman, budgy, others. This started 2-3 months ago. I have experimented with 1" ($90+)and 2" 20 ILD ($190 queen) ("called soft by them... the 1" was pretty soft and the 2" quite firm) latex from Foambymail.com, 1" 14 ILD 'very soft' talalay latex from sleeplikeabear.com ($175 Qn), and multiple layers of 1" Supersoft (feels like 20 ILD latex equivalent) and 1" 36 HD (firm.... probably like 36 ILD latex) polyurethane foams from foamdistributing.com, and 1" layers of 4 lb density "eco" memory foam and 5 lb senus memory foam from overstock.com. They were all queen sized and I cut them in half to allow twice as many inches of stacking, to allow me to experiment with up to 8 inches of latex and combinations of all the above in various sequences. I cut the top off a SERTA Perfect Sleeper Auburn Firm Queen I bought from Sears on sale for about $500 and drove it home on my roof (easy) to save $70 delivery. I saved the top.. which was a medium soft poly... about an inch... but stitched to a pretty stiff top layer of fabric... and experimented using the original top on new various layers. The original Serta had three one inch layers of poly (two soft, one firm) under the top: and they were nearly identical to the poly that I bought from foamdistributing.com Nearly identical!! The original format: soft hard soft. Cliff notes: the top four inches are where all your comfort is. Here is what I now have, and sleep with only some stiffness, no pain, for the first time in years. 1. Top cover: 6 ounce flannel sheet blanket www.vermontcountrystore.com (Buy King, Queen too small, sent it back. $50 http://www.vermontcountrystore.com/products/products-for-the-home/home-bedding/Blankets-Throws/Flannel-Sheet-Blanket.html?evar3=search 2. 1 inch Eco Memory foam 4 lb. density (greenish looking) KIng cut down to Queen because users warn of smallish size. (around $60) http://www.overstock.com/Home-Garden/Comfort-Dreams-Enviro-Green-Memory-Foam-1-inch-Mattress-Topper/3657732/product.html 3. 2 x 1 inch thick 20 ILD talalay latex topper from foambymail.com ($98x2) Get two one inch, not one two inch. Much easier to move, and allows experimentation. Here: http://www.foambymail.com/LatexTQueen.html 4. 1 inch "supersoft polyurethane foam" from Foamdistributing.com (about $35). http://www.foamdistributing.com/products/supersoft.html Choose 1 inch. For a cover, I bought a "flannel sheet blanket" .... 6 ounce, King Sized, because they are smallish at www.vermontcountrystore.com Cost about $50 delivered. Quite acceptable in terms of having some give, but providing some protection for the top layer. You can be into this entire setup for around $1000. The top 4 inches of your mattress combo will be 90% of your comfort. The 1 inch 4 lb memory foam is absolutely critical. You can start experimenting with these top layers on your firmer latex base, and if that doesn't work, you can go the full monty and buy the Serta Perfect Sleeper, Firm.. in the Nameoftheyear. Serta because it is linked continuous coil which you need for mattress surgery.. the independent pocketed coils will not stand up and stay together. Perfect Sleeper has the foam encasement around the perimeter, which will hold your springs base in place after cutting the top off. It is OK to stack 4 inches on top of this without a fancy zipper bag... it holds together quite well. Good luck, we all know what you are going through! shovel99
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I had not read completely through your post.... My surgery bed corresponds to the recommendations of softer on the top, firmer on the bottom. Because you are a side sleeper like me, you will need at least 3 inches of something pretty soft. My entire 4 inch comfort layer is 20 ILD or softer. I think you are too firm in that 4 inch range. Once you "bottom" barely in that range, you want the support layer to be FIRM.. like 36 ILD or so. My Firm Serta is probably a rough equivalent to 4-6 inches of 36 ILD or firmer. For me, the very top layer of 1 inch of 14 ILD from SLABear was too soft and not supportive, and 1 inch of 20 ILD Latex from FBM was too hard. The 1 inch of 4 lb mem foam is "just right." The memory foam... with the flannel blanket over it.. is just enough firm to be supportive and not too soft. When I used only the sheet, it was pretty good, but the extra proximity to the mem foam causes the heating effect to allow you to sink in more... so the blanket or isolation creates some more 'firmness' and 'support'. It is spooky how important the little things can be. Hang in there and dont be afraid to keep trying. Trust that you will get there. I was a few last tries from buying a Tempurpedic.. until I learned that they only feel good for a few minutes in the showroom, then maybe a month at home, and then you are really expensively screwed. I had tried a 2 inch Sensus topper that felt good for a month... about 3 years ago, then the backaches started. A few relatively inexpensive layers (cheap enough to split the queens in half so you have twice as many to try) will probably get you there.
shovel99/Paul |