Mattress Forum

So, I went ahead and got a 2" soft topper from FBM.  Yesterday I bought a foam topper and today a pilow top topper.  Have to try something.  We spent way to much money on this set and it's causing me to have neck and shoulder pain and headaches.

If these toppers don't work we may have to just eat the $3000.  :(

I think 2" of softness will help a lot. I have a 1" topper since I am light weight and petite but most people prefer a 2" topper. Please keep us updated. I am in the middle of a year end deadline so that is why I had not replied. I am eating dinner and felt bad you had no responses.

Hi Michelle-- if you sent me a personal message my inbox isn't showing it. Anyway, I would have recommended you do exactly what you did-- buy a soft latex topper from FBM. I went over to the King Koil site to see if I could find any information on how your mattress was constructed, but it's under construction so no luck there.

I hope the topper solves your problem. Please let us know if it does. If the mattress still feels too firm try folding the topper over and sleeping on it doubled. (I'm assuming your husband isn't having a problem with the mattress as is.) If it seems more comfortable doubled you may need to add a 1" topper. I wouldn't recommend sleeping on 4" of soft latex unless you really like a very soft bed. If worse comes to worse any chance the store will let you exchange your mattress? FBM gives you 30 days to return the topper if it doesn't do the job for you.

There is a reatailer online called cloud9 airmattress beds....they have latex too and lots of toppers.  So, it was not you personally that I emailed.  Sorry for the confusion.

My husband is truly disappointed, but I think it's just me in pain.  He for sure not as comfortable and he thought he would be after spending $3000. He was in pain with our old mattress and I was sleeping like a baby.  This mattress has 6 layers and has the most latex of another model we were considering.  It's not latex through out and I think it's the non latex foam core that is causing the problem.

Last night was better with the pilow top added and I'm hoping the 2" latex topper will fully solve the problem.  If not, I may be sleeping up stairs on the old bed or we may have to see if we can get anyting out of the new one and then start from square one and buy another bed.

Another reason to go with all latex and from a source y'all talk about here is to to be able to tweak each side.  I know that now. 

I'm 5'2 110 and Bob is 5'10 190.

I also bought a very comfy latex pillow.  I still have neck and back pain this morning and a little bit of a headache but not as bad as yesterday.  I'll post when I get the topper and I am hoping is solves the problem.

Seems like we basically spent $3000 on a foundating to add all these toppers!  I'll be up to 3 when the latex comes in.   

I called the store and asked about an exchange and was told they make no exceptions.  It also says it on my invoice.  I asked for the warranty paperwork and have already filled it out.  Not sure if I will get anywhere with that, but we are going to try.  My contention is there has to be something wrong with the mattress for it to feel this firm.

Steve

At least I still have the old bed that I was sleeping so good on.  We got it set up, upstairs and I just made it up.  I can at least sleep up there - but I hate to do that and leave Bob downstairs.  He is more uncomfortable in the old bed versus the new.

I think when you receive the 2" latex topper from FBM it will soften your bed up to where you can sleep in it OK. At the very least it should be at least as soft as the sample bed you tried in the store. I don't think I'd recommend keeping all of those other toppers on at the same time but you might experiment and see what will work for you. I did see some King Koils in the NW where I live and they really looked pretty good compared to the S brand's latex. What I mean be that is that it seemed to me at the time that the King Koil latex mattresses did not seem to have a lot of PU fluff on top of the latex, which is good. If your mattress is too firm - it can be softened to an extent..

Some other things to think about are:  Do you and your husband sleep on your side, stomach or back? A side sleeper will need a softer mattress than a stomach sleeper. Do you prefer a firm, medium or soft bed?  A local wise mattress maker told me that the man usually compromises to a softer mattress for his wife; as women have hips and men don't. Not that some women will not want a firm bed...

Good luck and be very firm with the mattress store. Make it known that you are not happy and are hurting. Ask them what exactly you should do? Ask them what they would do if they were you? Go to the owner or manager of the store, if its a chain go up the channel.

Bill

I briefly had a SleepEZ mattress too-- nicely constructed, beautiful LI latex--but no matter how I configured it I was so uncomfortable I just couldn't sleep on it. Either the mattress felt so hard my body ached just from lying on it or it was so soft I had no back support and my back hurt in other ways.  I would lie awake for hours before I fell asleep out of pure exhaustion, and after two hours I would wake up in pain, tossing and turning, unable to fall asleep again. Sometime I would get up and tear the bed apart rearranging the cores trying to get some relief. Eventually I just went into the guest room and finished out the night on my old mattress. After six weeks I sent it back.

Latex can be very difficult to configure and SleepEZ only gives you one comfort exchange. Sure if you go with Flobeds you can keep trying for the next 90 days, but honestly, I was so worn out I wouldn't have had the energy to go through all that--to say nothing of wanting to incur the shipping charges swapping out cores all the time. The fact is, latex just isn't for everyone. I was really disappointed to discover it wasn't for me at this point in my life, even though I had slept on latex for 20 years as a teenager and young adult and loved it.

After the SleepEZ mattress I went back to an innerspring, but today's innerspring mattresses are more like PU foam mattresses with a built in box spring that sits on a solid foundation. They just don't provide the same kind of support the old flippable mattresses did. So what's next? Kait has the best solution, but it's not as easy as all that to find a mattress maker. And if you just have to settle for what's out there why bother buying a new mattress at all? I've tweaked my mattress by removing some of the foam and replacing it with my own and it's already better than it was, although it's still not perfect yet.  I have to agree with Michelle about so many mattresses these days:  "It totally sucks to spend so much money and have this kind of result."

Yeah, I don't blame SleepEZ, they were nice and let me keep my exchanges for a long time while I played around with layers. Its just that I could never get the bed feeling really good. Its weird because I feel like its too firm sometimes (especially shoulders) but too soft other times (especially hip area). I may call them back to see what they suggest, but at this point I am thinking that (for whatever reason) latex just isn't for me. There is something to be said for being able to customize your mattress; on the other hand, it would be awfully nice to just buy a bed and have it feel great and last! Since I don't want to go back to an S brand, I'm thinking of checking out Dux and Hastens. Expensive, but worth it if they let me sleep comfortably...

Steve

I do think that this will be the last mattress we buy for a very long time and I guess that's a good thing.

I'm thinking now maybe I need a more supportive pillow.

I wish we had NEVER bought this bed.  :(

I would rather just sleep on the old bed which is upstairs versus ordering and returning toppers and dismanteling the bed every time we try something new.  This bed purchase was the biggest $3000 mistake we ever made.  Actually it's the only $3000 mistake we ever made.

Michelle, maybe you should spend a few nights on your old mattress so you can get some rest. In time you'll probably start thinking of ways to make the new one work for you again. I've been working on improving my mattress off and on for the past three months and it's taken awhile and some frustration but I finally feel like I'm getting somewhere. And boy, when you start to get it right, does it ever feel good!

When I made my bed too firm under my 1" topper (when I thought I would try a 44 ILD under my topper), my shoulders would ache in the morning. I also sleep on the side.  The only combination that seems to be working for me is my right side of my bed that has the 1" soft latex topper over the two 37 ILD 3" natural latex cores over the 46 ILD blended Talalay Latex core over my slat bed. My left side of my bed is still slightly too firm since I put a 44 ILD in the middle and it feels the best when I go to sleep but I wake up with a little bit of shoulder pain.  But the 36 ILD in the middle is too soft for me so I may call Dave at FloBeds one more time and explain to him that my car accident has made my back and neck so sensitive since I now have 5 herniated disks.  I love my FloBed since it allowed me to make it just right before the car accident and to now change it to fit my new back after the car accident.  it is just me on my bed, I am very comfortable most nights sleeping on my right side but sometimes from all the stress in my life and that time in my life, I wake up sweaty and need to switch to the other side of the bed.  I can live with the left side but prefer it to have two 37 ILD's and not one of them being a 36 ILD. Amazing that one ILD can affect me so greatly. 

I sleep on a natural latex pillow from overstock in a standard size.  The Pillows FloBed sent me over had a better feel but were Queen size so too thick for me. Dave tried to cut one skinnier for me but it turned out too skinny and I now appreciate the original Overstock Latex pillows I bought and feel that are supportive but soft enough for my petite size and I sleep well on them without allergies.

I feel for you since it is awful not getting a good night's sleep.  I would try a new pillow as well as maybe cutting thicker softer latex foam for your shoulder area.  I have made expensive mistakes in my life also that I wish I could redo but I can't.  I know my previous way too hard bed was a very expensive mistake that I lived with for I think about 12 years.  I did not wake up with back pain but I kept moving all night from side to side to get off of the pressure points and was wishing I kept my twin size perfectly comfortable bed and not bought that awful Posteupedic with no cushion at all Queen Size bed.   I am now sleeping on a Queen Size FloBed with split sides to allow me to make each size comfortable for myself with many combinations. I was hoping to have a partner for the other side but since I am still alone, I am making both sides just right for me.

Michelle, I've been through so many years of pain, simply trying to get a decent night's rest, I could easily write a book on the subject.  Please pardon the length of this post, but here are a few of the conclusions I've reached:

Rule #1: Don't rely on -- or even listen to -- ANYONE'S advice.  Asking which mattress or topper is right for you is like asking what pair of shoes will be most comfortable for your feet.  So many variables are involved (your body proportions, sleep positions, the pillows you use, your mattress foundation etc etc etc), all you're going to get from other people are endless anecdotes, one subjective opinion after another.  Each opinion will make you more and more confused, and each opinion is relevant only to the person who's giving it.

The bottom line is, in today's mattress market, which is built around inferior materials and a throwaway mentality, you must invest the time it takes to find the right mattress.  That means spending at least an hour on each mattress model you're interested in.  Be sure to bring/use your own pillow(s) from home.  But even that is no guarantee of long-term comfort, as explained below.

For nearly a century, buying a bed was easy.  You'd walk into a store and have a grand total of *three* mattresses to choose from: firm, medium and soft.  And it really didn't matter which model you chose, because all three mattresses were made from quality materials that were built to last.  However, in the 1980's bed manufacturers discovered consumers could be forced to buy a new bed every few years, instead of every 10, 20 or even 30 years.  They began using cheap foams instead of wool and cotton batting, untempered springs instead of tempered, etc.  And millions of people have been struggling and suffering ever since.

Rule #2: Stick with traditional technology.  That means the less memory foam and polyurethane foam, the better.  Look at any high-end bed manufacturer (Hästens, Hypnos, VI-Spring etc) and you'll find none of them use petrochemical foams in their mattresses.  Even so-called "100% natural" latex is mostly (60%) petrochemical foam.  If you do find a mattress that still uses all natural padding and comfort layers, and no foam, you'll have to spend several thousand dollars for one.  But over time, these mattresses aren't really more expensive, because they last 20 or more years, while foams begin to compress and collapse immediately after you start sleeping on them.

Rule #3: Buy a real box spring (preferably one that's 8-way hand tied), *not* a solid foundation.  This is especially important if you're a side sleeper: no mattress by itself is able to provide adequate, long-term hip support while providing enough give for your shoulders.  Quality box springs are the primary reason why traditional "firm" mattresses sets are so comfortable, while today's "firm" mattress sets are like sleeping on concrete slabs.

If you're like most people, you don't have 7 or 8 grand (or more) to spend on a bed.  If you must use foam, fortunately a few manufacturers are beginning to sell a workable alternative: mattresses with zippered covers that allow access to (and adjustment/periodic replacement of) both the spring coil unit and foam padding.  An example is www.baybed.com, however I have no first-hand experience with this particular company or their products.

Leo, as I tried to explain, it's impossible to give a useful recommendation without knowing your body proportions, what positions you sleep in, etc.

If your mattress is sagging, or has permanent indentations and compressed areas in its comfort layers, a topper isn't going to help.  In fact most toppers will make the problem worse.  Do you sleep any better when you lay in the exact center of the mattress (directly over the center support(s) of your box spring)?  If so, your problem is likely a sagging mattress, not an overly hard one.  I should also note that Spring Air box springs are junk.  Just for a test, try putting the mattress directly on your bedroom floor and see if your sleep quality improves.

If a mattress is even, but just too firm, some people have had luck with a 3" topper (featherbed, convoluted memory or PU foam).  But these toppers may cause back or hip pain if you're a side-sleeper, or if you weigh more than average.

Currently I'm sleeping on a McRoskey mattress, "gentle" model.  It's comfortable, but at this point I can't recommend it.  After just three months some of the mattress tufts have begun to tear through the ticking, even though I'm far from overweight (5' 10", 150#) and have flipped and rotated it right on schedule.  McRoskey said they would cover it under their warranty, but frankly I see no reason why I'm not going to have the same problem with the replacement mattress.

Leo, here's our mattress history as promised.

This nightmare started about five years ago, when my partner talked me into replacing our 25 year-old, basic, inexpensive but supremely comfortable JC Penney bed.  There was nothing wrong with it that a set of sheets couldn't hide, just the normal stains that accumulate over time, even when using a mattress pad.  But still it was pretty gross, and attempts to clean the mattress failed miserably, so I agreed to dump it.

I've always understood that a comfortable bed is not an expense, it's an investment, so we didn't scrimp when we budgeted for a new bed.  Our first replacement was an $1800 Spring Air pillowtop set from Mancini's.  I explained our sleep patterns (we're side-sleepers, exclusively) to the salesman, and he insisted a pillowtop mattress was best for us.  This was the first time we let a mattress salesman talk us into something that I knew wasn't true.  Enough of our friends and family had already been through hell with pillowtops, we should have known better than to listen to this guy.  But he was simply doing what all salesmen do: trying to get rid of whichever brands and models he had the most excess stock of.

The Spring Air set was a disaster from the beginning.  Our hips were sinking way too low into the mattress, and within a week both of us started waking up with lower back pain.  We called Mancini's and -- I still don't believe we did this -- we let the clown manager talk us into "waiting until we adjust" to it, which was their way of saying, "Please go away for 30 days, until our comfort guarantee expires."  Well, we fell for that scam, and after six weeks we were in excruciating pain, and the store refused an exchange or refund.

We couldn't afford another bed at that point, so we resorted to slicing the pillowtop off the mattress with a razor blade.  We were amazed to discover we had the same hip problems and back pain, even with no top on the bed.  So we figured the problem had to be bad springs in the mattress.  We got a replacement (firm top) mattress from a family member.  Same problem!

As it turns out, our hip problems were being caused by Spring Air's crappy box spring.  We had sliced up a brand new mattress for nothing!  The same replacement mattress, on another box spring, was very comfortable -- at least for a few months, until its foam comfort layers started to compress.  It quickly became a concrete slab.  Instead of hip pain we started having neck and shoulder pain every morning, our arms were falling asleep etc.  By then our finances had recovered and we could afford to start this whole process over again.

We had been hearing a lot about the divine miracles of latex and memory foams, and we spent about three years experimenting with foam mattresses and toppers of every sort.  Not only foams but wool, featherbeds, air beds etc.  And after three years we still were waking up in pain, and couldn't sleep for longer than a few hours at a time.  I don't know how many thousands of dollars we flushed down the toilet over the course of three years, but we finally realized that FOAM = CRAP, and we needed to go back to a traditional coil mattress and box spring -- regardless of the snake oil, outrageous claims and outright lies that petrochemical companies perpetrate on consumers every year.  By then we had also sworn off products from any of the "S" companies, even Stearns & Foster (which many years ago was bought out and gutted by Sealy).

Our next purchase was a medium-range Aireloom set ($2500), which was very comfortable -- again until the comfort layers began to collapse.  Only this time it became too soft instead of too hard, and we were back to square one: hip and lower back pain every morning.  However we did get nearly a year of comfortable sleep out of it.  We replaced it with the McRoskey "gentle" mattress that we're currently sleeping on.  We couldn't afford a matching box spring for it (each piece was $2000+), so we put it on a solid foundation.  It's firmer than we'd like, but I have to say it's comfortable and an extremely even/consistent sleeping surface, no doubt because it doesn't use any foam.  We're now in the process of finding a higher-end coil box spring we can afford, to hopefully soften it up a little.  In addition, some of the mattress tufts have started to tear through the ticking, even though neither me nor my partner are overweight, and even though we've flipped and turned the mattress according to McRoskey's schedule.  They said they will cover this problem under their warranty, and we have no complaints about their customer service.  They've been extremely helpful and courteous.