Foam by Mail latex & Latex International latex comparison
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I finally got around to taking some photos of my latex. I own a king sized latex bed. Half of it is Latex International [LI] latex and half of it is Foam by Mail [FBM] latex. The LI side consists of: 3" blended talalay 44 ILD 3" blended talalay 36 ILD 2" natural talalay 32 ILD The FBM side consists of: 6" talalay Firm 2" talalay Soft Here are some photos:  FBM on the left and LI on the right. You can see the obvious difference in quality.  FBM core in the cover.  FBM cover cut open.  FBM core brown spots and other inconsistencies.  FBM core random pincore holes, cut side view.  FBM soft topper random hole patterns.  FBM topper short, should be 80" long  FBM core short.  FBM invoice with my personal information covered up.  LI 32 ILD natural talalay topper tag.  LI 36 ILD blended talalay tag.  LI 44 ILD blended talalay tag. In general, my thoughts are: Latex International has very high quality latex. If/when I purchase future latex, I will pony up the extra cash for all LI latex. Unfortunately it was impractical to return my FBM latex. The problems with returning were 1) extremely difficult to package, 2) expensive to ship, 3) after paying return shipping, 25% of the cost is deducted and then the initial FBM shipping cost is deducted, which leaves little value left for the struggle. I don't work for LI, I am a consumer of bedding. I thought sharing my experiences would be helpful to others deciding where to buy their latex. Feel free to ask any questions. |
Re: Foam by Mail latex & Latex International latex comparison
| Where did you buy the LI foam? |
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jankdc wrote: Where did you buy the LI foam? The 2" 32 ILD natural talalay I bought from www.foamsource.com The other 3" blended talalay layers I bought from www.memoryfoam.com back when it used to be owned by Mark Reigle (way different site back then!). |
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| Wow, the difference in quality is striking when you see a side-by-side comparison! Thanks for posting these images. |
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How does the LI feel, do you have pressure points with this setup? Thanks for the pictures, really an eye opener. |
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The LI latex side feels great. I primarily sleep on back & stomach. If I were primarily a side sleeper I would probably change the 44 ILD bottom layer to 40 ILD or perhaps 36 ILD. The FBM side does not have a nice feel. It is hard to describe. You feel like you are squishing the latex beneath you in to a tight bunch. I don't know if that will make sense to anyone. |
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Jim, Thanks for sharing the differences in the Latex. I only know I had tried a Dunlap latex topper and the quality was not there for that topper. My Latex from FloBeds.com is the quality on the right with the same tags since it is from Latex International. The quality of my Latex 1" topper from Brylane homes also looks like the right side and is very nice. My bed is very comfortable to sleep on but since I am a side sleeper and very petite, I wanted a little bit of cushion but not too much so I could feel the very firm layers of the latex underneath the toppers. Each side has one blended latex Super Firm (44 ILD with one of the cores averaging at 46 ILD like I requested) and two natural Talalay Latex Cores with my Natural Latex Topper over this. I am very chemically sensitive but the blended latex did not bother my allergies at all from Latex International. I had previous had to give away a manmade latex pillow I bought online that bothered my allergies. I sleep on Natural Talalay Latex Standard Pillows from Overstock and they are made well also. You are such an asset to this forum for always sharing what you learn. Thank you. |
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My experience with FBM is totally the opposite from Jim's. I'm sorry you have had so much trouble and didn't like the product. Not sure why you didn't raise the kind of issues you are presenting here - with the FBM company. There are ways to get companies to do things if you think you have been dealt a bad hand, or misrepresented. The latex pieces I received are not perfect either. I posted pictures of them and my setup right after I got them. They are not short like yours though. I never really expected to get top quality latex without any imperfections, being that I was paying about half of what other companies were charging. I really thought I was going to get a factory second. I didn't really care what it looked like, within reason. I cared that it did what it was supposed to do and that was to support us and be comfortable. It has done that very well and is without a doubt one of the best deals I have gotten on any product in the last several years. $998 for 8" of latex with a pad thrown in. Please show me 8" of king size latex anywhere near that in price. I can afford to get any mattress I want and after reasearching it thoroughly, and with some encouragement, I went for the good deal and bought the FBM mattress with its few flaws. The flaws affect in no way the performance of the latex mattress. I would do it again tomorrow. My latex bed is without a doubt the best bed I've every owned, and I wasn't born yesterday. Bill |
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hi MequonJim, just curious why you ordered foam from two different places...? Was it to compare them, or to get different firmnesses? I've read posts from people who have FBM products, and though there seem to be visible imperfections, they seem genuinely pleased with how the foam feels and supports. I guess i'm just a bit confused now, as i had been planning to order from FBM...probably still will. |
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just joined this forum. good info. i've been reading for about a week got a question why do you need a topper why not just the base ? why not buy the base in what you like firm,soft or med. i hope that the foam by mail is a good place thats where i plan on getting my stuff from. |
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electracat wrote: hi MequonJim, just curious why you ordered foam from two different places...? Was it to compare them, or to get different firmnesses? Hi electracat, I ordered from www.memoryfoam.com originally because I had purchased from Mark before, and I knew he was a straight shooter. Also his prices were reasonable for brand name foams. I ordered the topper from www.foamsource.com because Mark did not carry the 100% natural talalay, and that is what I wanted in contact with my body. After I slept on that half of the bed for a long time, I knew that I liked latex, and I had an idea of what might feel good on the other side. Slightly less firm topper and a firm core. Having read somewhat favorable reviews on this site about FBM, I took the plunge, considering the low prices of FBM for latex. This site is here to educate consumers about purchasing mattresses. I posted my experience with latex to help other people understand what I have learned as a consumer of latex. |
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cycomom13 wrote: why do you need a topper why not just the base ? why not buy the base in what you like firm,soft or med In my experience, a firm base is too firm to sleep on without a softer topper. I have had other foam beds which were completely medium and they did not provide adequate support. Meaning, I woke up with back aches. In my experience it is best to layer from soft to medium to firm (top to bottom), which provides the most comfort while maintaining adequate support. |
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Great post! It does vary greatly from BillB's experience and his quality looks much better than yours. All the same, it was great to see the difference, and I appreciate your effort in putting together this post. I am 6'5" and definitely need a mattress that is 80" .... I bought a latex topper from Ikea and returned it for a second one ... only to have both SHORT and not WIDE enough ... Will have to consider my options. |
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Very interesting. I've never seen irregular latex like that. All the latex I have ever seen was very regular in terms of how the holes are placed. I take it you did not know the piece was short until you'd had it awhile. Otherwise, were it me, I'd have considered making them send me one the right size at their expense. I have some concern as to whether or not that FBM piece is truly Talalay because I have never seen Talalay irregular like that. Looks more like "jungle latex" to me. That said, I once laid on some jungle latex and liked the feel of it better than Talalay... (I use the term "jungle latex" as I've read it here in the past, to signify latex that is all natural and usually comes from Malaysia or India (?) or some exotic country.) |
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I just received my FBM foam layers. The foam looked quickly hand-cut. The holes looked uneven like on the core above. Mine did not have brown spots though. I ordered 80" and the 7 pieces (1" thick) I ordered averaged 80.5" Comparing the 20ILD and 32ILD 1" latex toppers I just received from them: - The 20ILD looks homogenous. Not sure why the holes in them aren't perfectly evenly spaced. Functionality isn't affected one bit of course, but it's still weird their molds don't give them evenly spaced holes. -The 32ILD looks like the 20 ILD on top, with a thin and noticeably DENSE layer at the bottom. I guess this is what Dunlop latex looks like? That said, the price was excellent, and I applaud FBM for making a comfortable night's sleep affordable for broke college students like myself. |
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Based on this thread I just took a closer look at the FBM latex topper I purchased a few months ago. IMHO they are selling "factory seconds" with their latex. While I believe the defects won't alter the overall performance of the latex, I believe that FBM is not truthfully disclosing the the nature of their products, which would also explain the lower cost of their latex products. The 3" topper I received looks similar to the pics posted here with the irregular pinhole patterns (but no brown spots), mine was sized properly at least! I believe that they are taking the 6" cores and sloppily cutting these down to make their latex toppers. I did just notice that on one area of the topper edge there is a "patched" section comprising a 6" x 2" section of latex (different color) that was glued into the topper to patch a hole that appears to have been made when someone pulled the latex, ripping the edge. Overall, I'm ok with the topper thanks to the price, but there isn't any way they are selling first quality products.... |
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Well I guess you get what you pay for???? My O-stock.com latex has a major flaw 2'x6" gap hole. It was allegedly supposed to be Dunlop firm, this piece was soft Talalay. I can tell now. So buyer beware.... I must say you can work around the problem areas though...... This message was modified Jun 7, 2009 by Leo3
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I think I just got your extra length. I read this post before ordering from FBM, but decided that for the kids/guest twin bed I was primarily ordering for, being a little short and uneven quality would be fine. So, I ordered a standard twin (75'' long) in medium. When I tried to put it into the Overstock cover today, it was clearly way too long. I got out the measuring tape and is is just short of 82''! Looks like I need to go out and get a cheap electric knife. Any suggestions on what to do with a 7x3x39'' piece of latex? I'm not seeing any brown bits; the latex looks very consistent. However, the holes on one side have wider, uneven openings.  |
Re: Foam by Mail latex & Latex International latex comparison
| Please let us know if it feels consistent when you sleep on it. Meaning same relative firmness over all areas of mattress/topper. Maybe you got a good one from them! |
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| I really appreciate this post Jim. I'm thinking of getting a talalay latex topper and was told by a competing salesperson that most of FBM's toppers are really dunlop. Are you convinced yours is talalay? Just wondering... |
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Sabra wrote: I really appreciate this post Jim. I'm thinking of getting a talalay latex topper and was told by a competing salesperson that most of FBM's toppers are really dunlop. Are you convinced yours is talalay? Just wondering... Hey Sabra, I replied to your private message. ;) In my opinion, it seems like the FBM layers I got 2 weeks ago were Talalay and not dunlop but I could be wrong. Jim may have more experience with Dunlop to properly identify it. I think most people have confirmed in earlier posts that it was a synthetic blend of Talalay. |
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| I can't be certain what it is. It is very different than the LI latex in feel. One side of the 6" core is firmer than the other. However it doesn't feel denser than the other side, which I thought it would if it was dunlop process latex. |
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MequonJim wrote: I can't be certain what it is. It is very different than the LI latex in feel. One side of the 6" core is firmer than the other. However it doesn't feel denser than the other side, which I thought it would if it was dunlop process latex. Jim your description of your 6 inch core definitely sounds like Dunlop to me. One of the characteristics of Dunlop is that one side will feel different than the other, as opposed to Talalay. Both sides of Talalay will feel basically the same. Now I'm talking about 100% botanically grown Talalay process latex. I have never seen, felt, or smelled blended Talalay. One side should not feel denser than the other side I wouldn't think. But one side is a bit stiffer than the other side I have been told. It is also, supposedly, one of the advantages of Dunlop in that you can turn it over and have a different feel. |
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MequonJim, You mention that the 6" feels different on each side. I have noticed that my FoamByMail latex (6" firm, 2" med, 2" soft, and 1" soft) has a smooth side and a rough side, but I have been unable to decide if one is firmer than the other. Which side do you think is the firmer side? I called FoamByMail to clarify which side should be up and they seemed oblivious to the fact that each side had a different degree of smoothness and told to try both ways and pick a preference. I have had the setup for about a month now using the 6" firm, 2" med, 1" soft and I feel it lacks support while at the same time feeling too hard on the surface. I cannot at all tell the difference between my 2" med and 2" soft, and even the 6" firm does not feel any firmer (though it is so much thicker that is difficult to compare). I have come to suspect these guys have one type of latex and are just letting people order the different densities figuring that nobody will notice the difference, and even if they did it is too inconvenient to return. Thoughts? This message was modified Nov 10, 2009 by gggunhold
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gggunhold wrote: I cannot at all tell the difference between my 2" med and 2" soft, and even the 6" firm does not feel any firmer (though it is so much thicker that is difficult to compare). I have come to suspect these guys have one type of latex and are just letting people order the different densities figuring that nobody will notice the difference, and even if they did it is too inconvenient to return. Thoughts? To test your theory, try moving the 2" parts to the bottom of your mattress. Does it feel the same? In my opinion, you are correct. The latex manufacturer may be tricking FBM or FBM is tricking the public. I think the few who like their FBM latex beds got lucky. Not only is it inconvenient to return, it is very costly, which makes it not worthwhile. Did you read their return policy? Good luck to you. |
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I did know about the return policy and I was willing to take the gamble. What I hadn't banked on was them blatently false advertising their product as having different degrees of firmness when they would appear to all be the same. I mistakenly assumed their ILD ratings were truthful and used them as a reference against what I had experienced in local matress stores. In reality the FBM firm 6" base is much much softer than any latex mattress I was able to try in various local stores, while their soft topper is much firmer. MequonJim, you mentioned observing different degrees of firmness on either side of your 6" base. In your opinion which was the firmer side between the smooth and rough sides? |
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| I haven't tried the 6 inch "firm" base but there is definitely a difference between the medium (32 ILD) and soft (18-21) tal latex toppers so your claim of false advertising is probably untrue. I went with the LUX 6inch base, you may want to try that as well with at least 3 inches of medium on top (soft hurt my back), I use 4 with a soft layer in the middle and it sleeps perfect. |
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Well i didn't think i'd care about superficial flaws that don't affect performance, but i'd pay more for the one on the right. Now wrong lengths are another story. O.T.O.h. i've heard at least two instances of L.I. doing the same (not poor quality, just wrong sizes or cut short). Wish i could find a LOCAL place where i can see what i'm buying before i hand over my money. In houston you'd think it'd be possible. |
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Jason, you may have read my story about Flobeds sending the wrong size convoluted topper with my bed. There was actually another guy on these forums who bought a Flobed about the same time and also got the wrong size topper with his shipment. What happened is apparently they had a batch of king sized convoluted toppers that accidentally were labeled as queen. The first they knew of it was when I called them to say my queen topper was way too big, and they had me measure it while I was on the phone with them. After my conversation with them, they went through the whole warehouse and individually checked each topper to be sure they were correctly labeled. They sent me a new topper immediately, with a return label so I could send the king sized one back at their expense. I think the issue was a shade different - the topper was cut to the correct dimensions but the wrong labels were accidentally affixed. The FBM layers were just not cut accurately to size. When I got my second, correctly sized topper from Flobeds, at first I thought it was a little short both length and width wise. However, after a little fussing and adjusting all the layers to fit accurately together, it is exactly the right size. Jason, where in Texas are you? There's this place in Texas you might go to their showroom and try one. From the description, it *sounds* like they are selling Dunlop processed latex, but you'd have to check: http://www.texasmattress.com/ This message was modified Nov 29, 2009 by KimberlyH
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KimberlyH wrote: http://www.texasmattress.com/
And yeah, if the reputable brands are making multiple mistakes with with one customer, not much hope for the lower budget operations in that regard. At least their c.s. took care of you, that's the main thing. That alone is worht paying for. Now that JimS.C. has me thinking along the lines of his surgery projects- which is as far from "NO D.I.Y." as possible- i'm thinking about seeing what my current sealy looks like on the inside. since it will be disposed of anyway, eventually. thanks again. |