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Last fall (I think it was last fall) -- we got inspired by the folks here and cut open our 7 yr old Stearns and Foster E King mattress (posted pics here too). We pulled out all the crappy foam and put in 2" of 32 and 1" of 20 ILD latex from Foam by Mail. We have tried a Cuddlebed topper from Costco and I liked it at first -- but now -- meh-- so we took it off. We had a piece of 2" Overstock memory foam that we took out -- I just felt it was beginning to 'lose its memory'. Then we tried a different 2" MF topper from Costco -- I REALLY didn't like that -- my hips hurt! We tried both of the MF on top and under the FBM 20. So now we are sleeping on just the latex. I've read here that people think FBM's 20 is really something between a 24-28. Whatever it is, it is really just too hard -- though it feels soft when I just push down with my fingers -- but when I lay down -- it is hard. For me it isn't horrible -- it is better than the floor or a board -- but it's just not gonna work long term. My husband is suffering a lot more than I am. So -- where do we go from here? Our stats -- I am 5'2" and 170ish (sigh) side and back sleeper (more back recently cause of how firm the bed is). Jim is 6'4" and 210 -- mostly side sleeper. He's getting tempted to just start from scratch which would be a cheap firm Sealy king from Costco (what we can afford at the moment) at around $600. Other options are 1" of softer talatech latex from SLAB which is $274 + tax -- I'm leaning toward 19 ILD (but don't know btween the 19 and 24). There's this from Arizona Mattress 2" 22ILD -- but I don't know where it's from and don't want to get another too firm piece. But the price is good -- $239. Also this from Sleep EZ -- 1.5" of blended talalay $220 + $50 for shipping -- it says it's 22-24 ILD -- again wondering if it will it be soft enough? Finally I've considered 1" of the 5.3 lb density MF from foam order (I think it was shovel99's rec?) for $122 + shipping.
I'd would LOVE to hear any opinions of anyone here. Thanks! |
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stacytr wrote:
I like -- or used to like a more firm bed - now I'd say I still want firm -- but I really need some cushiness too -- stupid aging. And I don't want to experiment -- I just want it to be right without too much money spent! I'm still waffling between 19 and 24 ILD and 1-2" for this layer. But I'm ready to bite the bullet and make this purchase -- just really really hoping to get closer to what we need. Sandman, one other question -- I can't remember -- do you have a special cover -- wool or other that you like? I have a washable wool filled Natura mattress pad right on top of the the foam. Nothing else except a sheet over that. You might get lucky and get it right the first time. Depends on how picky you are. I have a slight preference for the 100% natural talalay. Seems a bit more substantial then the blended. The softest one at SLAB says 20-24.9, so it might be more like 22.5 on average. Probably the same thing Catherine got. I decided to go with 1" increments on top so I could fine tune. I have 1" of the 5.3 (I measured at 5.9!) MF on top over 1" of 24 (might be somewhere in 20-25 range?) 100% natural talalay over 1" 19 blended talalay. It is possibly that would be just fine with 2" of the 20-25, but never tried it that way. SLAB does offer returns, but you will be out shipping. You might want to try 1" and you can then also fold in half to get a sense of what 1 more inch would be like. It's hard! Unfortunetly it is not a product that can just be tried and returned easily. |
Is that too much to ask?! |
I lost a whole post! And it has been a crappy long day. I'll try and recreate my post.
I spoke with someone at SleepEZ today. I don't remember his name and he seemed very nice, but when I talked about the recommendations here to start small and build from there and asked him for advice, he basically said that in his experience trying to piece together beds with 1 and 2 inch pieces was not a good idea and the people who tried that were on a path to dissatisfaction with the end result. He really thought people needed 2" as a bare minimum and that 3" on top was better. Oh and the 1 and 1.5 inch toppers that they have on their website -- apparently they are getting a new website at the end of the month and aren't bothering to update/remove the sold out and discontinued items. I also had an email response from someone at Arizona Premium Mattress Co (latexmattresscompany.com). I was asking whether they had 1" toppers and he said that 2 inches was the bare minimum. In his last email I felt he was a little condescending -- but that could have just been me reading into his words. I just feel kind of discouraged. I cannot afford a 3" $500+ topper (almost $700 at SLAB) to fix my bed! I'm not going to go that route. And I'm here, so ultimately I think you guys who have been experimenting with layers and so kindly sharing your experiences to help the rest of us are maybe a little more credible than the person trying to sell me a 3" expensive topper. I mentioned this board with both places and I was just a little surprised I guess that the experiences here seemed to be discounted. And I confess it makes me second myself a little bit -- wondering whether I should get the Ariaona mattress co 2" topper (the only one I can afford that's 2") -- or just go for the 1" at SLAB. Sigh. Catherine, I realized there are 2 differnt websites for Arizona mattress. These are both the same right? mattresses.net and latexmattresscompany.com The logo looks the same -- I'm just not sure why they have the 2 different addresses with slightly different sites. This message was modified Apr 6, 2012 by stacytr
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The advice to not piece together the topper makes sense, but the approach is born out of concern over not being sure what to get and wanting to minimize the expense. Without much experience (sorry!), I'm thinking a 1" topper is to fix the quilted surface, 2" is quilting plus some cushion, and 3" is more wholesale, you better know what you are trying to achieve or hide. The mattress cover tends to firm up the contents, so the topper tends to be for surface cushion (to fix dead mattress surfaces more or less). However, with mattress surgery where the cover is now gone, the topper can interact more with the layers below, so 3" could have more core purpose here. With surgery on existing innersprings, I think 3" core purpose on the springs and 2" topper over that for cushion comfort... say 32 and 24 Talatech, for example. The multiple websites for the same vendor is unprofessional. They should simply toggle from old to new when its ready. Here's a pretty good deal on a king 3" LI Talatech in a sensible topper cover... 19 or 28 ILD. The 19 would be deep soft; the 28 would be 'medium'... could work on top/could work on springs... hard to know from here. The choice of ILDs suggests LI is targeting the topper market with this one, not the build to taste market. I would prefer an option for 2" 24 ILD. Still... it's probably a quality LI topper, 3" Talatech and stretchy cover. GK |
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stacytr wrote: I lost a whole post! And it has been a crappy long day. I'll try and recreate my post.
I spoke with someone at SleepEZ today. I don't remember his name and he seemed very nice, but when I talked about the recommendations here to start small and build from there and asked him for advice, he basically said that in his experience trying to piece together beds with 1 and 2 inch pieces was not a good idea and the people who tried that were on a path to dissatisfaction with the end result. He really thought people needed 2" as a bare minimum and that 3" on top was better. Oh and the 1 and 1.5 inch toppers that they have on their website -- apparently they are getting a new website at the end of the month and aren't bothering to update/remove the sold out and discontinued items. I also had an email response from someone at Arizona Premium Mattress Co (latexmattresscompany.com). I was asking whether they had 1" toppers and he said that 2 inches was the bare minimum. In his last email I felt he was a little condescending -- but that could have just been me reading into his words. I just feel kind of discouraged. I cannot afford a 3" $500+ topper (almost $700 at SLAB) to fix my bed! I'm not going to go that route. And I'm here, so ultimately I think you guys who have been experimenting with layers and so kindly sharing your experiences to help the rest of us are maybe a little more credible than the person trying to sell me a 3" expensive topper. I mentioned this board with both places and I was just a little surprised I guess that the experiences here seemed to be discounted. And I confess it makes me second myself a little bit -- wondering whether I should get the Ariaona mattress co 2" topper (the only one I can afford that's 2") -- or just go for the 1" at SLAB. Sigh. Catherine, I realized there are 2 differnt websites for Arizona mattress. These are both the same right? mattresses.net and latexmattresscompany.com The logo looks the same -- I'm just not sure why they have the 2 different addresses with slightly different sites. My guess is that you need at least 2" above the 32. I am not sure if you still plan to use the FBM 20, but you will be able to try it with and without. So, 2" of the 22 from Arizona might work out for you. Is it 100% natural talalay from Latex International? My situation would probably be just fine with 2" of the 22 (instead of 1" 24 and 1" 19) and 1" of memory foam on top of that. Certainly better pricing than SLAB. My guess is that it won't be too soft. You would then have the option of adding 1" above it if it is close to being right, but a little too firm. I have found that you can definitely go too thick on memory foam. I had a couple of 2.5" pieces of memory that both ended up being too soft to use. With latex, an extra inch is less likely to cause a problem. A previous poster (Mark) had a latex mattress that was too firm, and he added 3" of 24 talalay. He was pretty happy, but still thought it a bit too firm (some might say too much "push back" from the latex). Then he added 1" of 5lb Sensus and he was quite happy with it.
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stacytr wrote: ....he basically said that in his experience trying to piece together beds with 1 and 2 inch pieces was not a good idea and the people who tried that were on a path to dissatisfaction with the end result. He really thought people needed 2" as a bare minimum and that 3" on top was better. ...... Well, he might be right, at least partially. The problem is that we're ordering these things without being able to try them out, and these toppers are unwieldy to handle and expensive to ship back if we return them. So from that standpoint, it seems to make more sense to try an inch at a time. Unless you're able to go into one of these stores and try out the toppers, there isn't really a "best" way to order a topper (1" vs. 2" vs. 3") -- there's just a set of risks and trade-offs.
I just feel kind of discouraged. I cannot afford a 3" $500+ topper (almost $700 at SLAB) to fix my bed! I'm not going to go that route. I have spent more money on toppers than on mattresses. Buying a firm mattress and "just" adding a topper is not as easy as it sounds, and the process of experimenting (with mounting expenses, and maybe achy backs) does get discouraging. sandman wrote: So, 2" of the 22 from Arizona might work out for [stacy]. Is it 100% natural talalay from Latex International? My situation would probably be just fine with 2" of the 22 (instead of 1" 24 and 1" 19) and 1" of memory foam on top of that. Arizona offers the 22 ILD Talalay in both blended and natural; I believe they're both from LI. I got the natural, and I like the feel of it. Not sure I could describe the difference in feel, but I think I prefer the natural to the blended (I have some of both).
It is odd that the company has two websites, and I'm not fond of some of the marketing hype on them, but the latex they sold me is very good quality, and the price can't be beat (IF you're willing to go with a no-returns vendor). I was shocked that the topper was shipped & delivered rolled up tightly in plastic -- and only the plastic. No box. There was more than one layer of plastic, but still... If the thing had somehow gotten cut up in transit, I'd have had steam comin' out of my ears... Luckily, it was fine. I just had to be reeeeeeally careful when cutting open the plastic.
Stacy, I hope you can figure out something that works for you & your husband. I know how tiring the search can get. This message was modified Apr 6, 2012 by Catherine
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Thanks GK, Sandman and Catherine. (did I forget someone?) I sure appreciate your responses, support, and understanding! It's nice to not feel totally blind in all this. :) My husband ordered the 2" natural talalay topper from Arizona mattress today! The fact that Sandman and Catherine both said they preferred natural was a big sway for me since I haven't felt both to compare. I read back through some old threads and saw that Budgy also prefers natural. And I called Arizona and they said their natural topper was from LI so that helped too. The difference was only around $45 so it seemed wiser to just go ahead and spend a little bit more on something that folks with experience like better. Usually I stall a lot longer in making these decisions, but this time I am just so tired of researching. I know that my mileage may vary, but these 2 inches of an actual cushion layer should (I hope!) really make things better for us. And it's a LOT cheaper from Arizona than from anywhere else. We still have the cuddlebed and can always return that if we still don't prefer it and use the money toward a wool pad or towards a 5.3 pound MF topper from foamorder should we still feel the need. Sandman, how does this wool pad from Overstock look compared to yours? The price is certainly good for a king sized pad! Though I'm not sure who manufactures it. Catherine -- wow -- spending more on toppers than mattress is impressive -- and I'll bet at times discouraging too. :( I sure hope you find this current mattress gives you some decent longevity -- you certainly have earned some decent sleep with all the work you went through! Again, I am VERY grateful to you guys for sharing so freely your experiences. I will keep you posted. We live in S CA so hopefully the topper will get here fast! :) |
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stacytr wrote: My husband ordered the 2" natural talalay topper from Arizona mattress today! ....... Great! Usually I stall a lot longer in making these decisions, but this time I am just so tired of researching. I know the feeling.
Catherine -- wow -- spending more on toppers than mattress is impressive -- and I'll bet at times discouraging too. :( I sure hope you find this current mattress gives you some decent longevity -- you certainly have earned some decent sleep with all the work you went through! Well... turns out I was wrong about that -- I shouldn't do math in my head. I just added everything on paper, and the mattresses (the one I bought in 2009 plus the one I just bought) do come out to be higher. But I spent more on toppers than I did on the mattress I bought in 2009, and I certainly did not expect that. And the wallet is now closed.... Neither mattress was expensive, as mattresses go... but yeah, the whole process of trial and error (and error and error and error) did get discouraging and it took up way too much time.
I will keep you posted. We live in S CA so hopefully the topper will get here fast! :) Hope it works for you! |
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I hope the new topper works out well for you! I think it will be an improvement over your current situation. That wool mattress pad looks much thicker than what I have. Mine is the normal type of mattress pad/protector with a cotton cover and wool filling (instead of the usual poly fill). Works better to absorb humidity and keep you cooler. Some people like the Dormier one, since that seems to have a minimal effect on the feel of the latex. The problem if you go thicker is that it can change the feel of the latex significantly (often makes it seem firmer). If you already have a "normal" mattress pad/protector (not sure what the proper name is), then I would just try it first to see if it works for you.
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Catherine wrote: I just added everything on paper, and the mattresses (the one I bought in 2009 plus the one I just bought) do come out to be higher. But I spent more on toppers than I did on the mattress I bought in 2009, and I certainly did not expect that. And the wallet is now closed.... Neither mattress was expensive, as mattresses go... but yeah, the whole process of trial and error (and error and error and error) did get discouraging and it took up way too much time.
Hope it works for you!
And how do you do the separation of the quotes like you do? |
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sandman wrote: I hope the new topper works out well for you! I think it will be an improvement over your current situation.
That wool mattress pad looks much thicker than what I have. Mine is the normal type of mattress pad/protector with a cotton cover and wool filling (instead of the usual poly fill). Works better to absorb humidity and keep you cooler. Some people like the Dormier one, since that seems to have a minimal effect on the feel of the latex. The problem if you go thicker is that it can change the feel of the latex significantly (often makes it seem firmer). If you already have a "normal" mattress pad/protector (not sure what the proper name is), then I would just try it first to see if it works for you.
The only mattress pad we have is the cuddlebed -- which I'm still not convinced that we will keep. And I'm worried about how much it might change the feel of our nice new latex. We do have (or did have -- i don't know where it is now) a thin zip cover for an old memory foam pad we had -- I'll try and find it and dig it out to use for the new 2" topper. The mattress pad you linked to looks nice -- so does the St Dormeir. I found the same natura topper here for even less -- I am SO tempted -- sale expires tomorrow, But I think we've spent enough for today! |