higher ILD?
| I currently have a Flobeds posture deluxe composed of 3 layers of super firm blended talalay. The ILD is supposed to be 42-46. I am still waking up with low back pain and I am wondering if there a higher ILD out there so I can increase the firmness of the layers? Or is there another route I can go with this? Dunlop? firmer topper instead of convoluted one? Any suggestions would be appreciated. |
Re: higher ILD?
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fubu04 wrote: I currently have a Flobeds posture deluxe composed of 3 layers of super firm blended talalay. The ILD is supposed to be 42-46. I am still waking up with low back pain and I am wondering if there a higher ILD out there so I can increase the firmness of the layers? Or is there another route I can go with this? Dunlop? firmer topper instead of convoluted one? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Unless you weigh a lot, I would think your mattress is plenty firm. I am *guessing* it could be too firm, even though lower back pain is often caused by a "too soft" mattress. Have you tried it without any topper at all? How thick is your convoluted topper? If it's an inch or less it probably is not causing your back pain but if it's over an inch I think it could. If you stil have back pain without the topper then, just as an experiment, try putting a medium layer of 1" on top of your firms instead of the topper, and see if that helps. Does your pain exist during the day or is it only when sleeping or waking up in the morning? |
Re: higher ILD?
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jimsocal wrote: Unless you weigh a lot, I would think your mattress is plenty firm. I am *guessing* it could be too firm, even though lower back pain is often caused by a "too soft" mattress. Have you tried it without any topper at all? How thick is your convoluted topper? If it's an inch or less it probably is not causing your back pain but if it's over an inch I think it could. If you stil have back pain without the topper then, just as an experiment, try putting a medium layer of 1" on top of your firms instead of the topper, and see if that helps. Does your pain exist during the day or is it only when sleeping or waking up in the morning? I only weigh 150 and share it with my girlfriend who is 100 lbs. The topper is 2", but since it is convoluted it seems to be 1". I will try to see how it is without the topper. The pain exists only when I sleep and goes away as the day goes by. |
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All three layers are 42-46? Isn't that a bit firm for your weight? What does your girlfriend think of the mattress? Have you tried to talk to Flobeds to exchange layers if it is too firm? Can't understand why you would have low back pain from too firm of a bed, unless the small of your back is not being support. Call Flobeds and talk to them. How long have you had this mattress? |
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I agree with Leo and Jim! I have a FloBeds and the almost perfect firmness levels for me are F/F/XF. And I am 6 foot two and weigh 210 pounds. How did you come to such a firm mattress? Did FloBeds recommend this to you? I would almost guess that your mattress is too firm. Remember that a firm piece of latex from FloBeds is 32 ILD. And extra firm piece is 36 ILD. Or thereabouts. Soft is way too soft for me, and medium is two soft depending on how it is layered. I am currently trying a medium piece on the bottom with an extra firm in the middle and a firm piece on top. This is working fairly well but I'm about to go back to what I originally had on that side of the bed ( I have a cal king) and make it F/XF/XF once again. This is very firm but if I have tweaked my back, then it can feel comfortable. All the while keeping the top 2 inch layer of convoluted in place, I have never taken it off. What you might try is a softer configuration with a fairly thick cotton topper. I know I recently put a new hundred percent cotton topper on mine and stretched tight across the mattress. This extra firmness made my bed too firm for me and I took it off.I washed it, and when I put it back on did not stretch it so tightly, this feels better. But I think I'm going back to my very thin old original topper which feels so good. As Jim, and several others can testify to, sometimes making very slight changes can make all the difference in the world in the way the bed feels to you. Another thought. With an ILD this firm you have to be using blended latex. Is your whole bed blended? I preferred 100% natural latex. It just seemed to have a better feel for me. I did try one firm piece of blended, for me at least, it felt more like a medium piece of 100% natural. This was a very brief test with only one piece of latex, so I would not put a whole lot of stock in my observation. But this is another thing that you can talk to FloBeds about. So your best bet to call Dave or Dewey Turner at FloBeds and have them help you work it out. This message was modified Feb 17, 2010 by eagle2
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Re: higher ILD?
| I have had this mattress for about 2 months. It started at M/F/F and I started to increase in firmness incrementally until I reached this SF/SF/SF configuration. I didn't know that low back pain can still exist from a too firm mattress. I thought shoulder and hip pain would only result from one. This entire mattress is blended talalay. |
Re: higher ILD?
| Have you had pain with all of the configurations? If so, then maybe the firmness is not the real issue. You have gone from fairly soft to very firm. I couldn't even imagine sleeping on 3 layers of super firm. Sometimes too firm causes me back problems, because I end up slumping my top leg way over to get comfortable (to reduce pressure on hips). That puts strain on my lower back. |
Re: higher ILD?
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I'd try a layer of medium on top followed by a soft 1" topper. If that doesn't work it could be that all-foam is not for you. Talk to flobeds. I think they'll agree that you need to try a more medium mattress. This message was modified Feb 17, 2010 by jimsocal
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Re: higher ILD?
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I agree, this mattress seems unbelievably firm, especially for someone your weight. I am very heavy (over 200) and I have three layers of XF 36 ILD in my Flobed, and it's pretty darn firm. Sometimes I steal my husband's side of the bed to get a softer feel. I can't imagine anything firmer being comfortable. It may be that you need to 1) try a V-zone configuration to vary the firmness down the length of the bed or 2) go back to a softer combination or 3) maybe a latex mattress isn't the right solution for you. I don't think you mentioned what kind of pain you have, where it is, and what your sleep position normall is? |
Re: higher ILD?
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KimberlyH wrote: I agree, this mattress seems unbelievably firm, especially for someone your weight. I am very heavy (over 200) and I have three layers of XF 36 ILD in my Flobed, and it's pretty darn firm. Sometimes I steal my husband's side of the bed to get a softer feel. I can't imagine anything firmer being comfortable. It may be that you need to 1) try a V-zone configuration to vary the firmness down the length of the bed or 2) go back to a softer combination or 3) maybe a latex mattress isn't the right solution for you. I don't think you mentioned what kind of pain you have, where it is, and what your sleep position normall is? Thank you for all the feedback. Its lower back pain. I alternate between back and my side as I sleep. Lately I have been sleeping on my side to somewhat alleviate the low back pain. I started with a vzone firm and the pain was still present. |
Re: higher ILD?
| You may have to adjust the vzone firm. I believe they use a medium firm piece under the hips in the "firm" vzone. I switched it out for a firm piece under the hips, and that was better (more support) for me. Of course, you could try XF or SF under the hips, but for me those would have been too firm to be comfortable. |
Re: higher ILD?
| You might also want to try just two layers of 3" latex on top of a robust foundation - all that latex might be leading to body contortions that in turn create the back pain. I'm only 108 lbs and I found M/F/F far too soft (bottom half of my body sunk all the way in but not my top half), and F/F/XF (the firmest I tried) both too firm and too soft -- too firm in that the mattress created painful pressure points, but too soft in that the mattress contorted my body out of alignment leading to major pain. Ultimately, I decided to go back to an innerspring mattress, but were I to make another try with the latex (which I prefer in theory to innerspring), I would likely try just two 3" layers, probably in Dunlop. When I put a 3" medium layer on a firm innerspring, it was almost right -- just a tad soft (3" firm was a tad firm). I found the convoluted 2" to be largely irrelevant - marginal impact on support if at all, greater impact on comfort. |
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fubu04 wrote: Thank you for all the feedback. Its lower back pain. I alternate between back and my side as I sleep. Lately I have been sleeping on my side to somewhat alleviate the low back pain. I started with a vzone firm and the pain was still present. fubu04: I do not see anywhere in this thread where you indicate whether or not you originally hurt your back, or if you have a permanent bad back condition, or if the FloBeds caused the back pain. Did you have any back pain before you purchased the FloBeds? From the limited amount of information you have posted I would have to guess that your back problems could be caused by something other than the bed. I have had back problems since I was a very young man and got it hurt playing football. Over the years various things have given me problems. Now that I am older almost anything can give me some momentary pain. But normally I can work it out by doing some stretching, or having my wife rub my back with a big old vibrator that I bought many years ago. While I certainly am not a doctor nor am I wanting to prescribe medical treatment for you, you might seriously consider going to a good chiropractor for an evaluation and possibly some treatment. I know that I used one for many years and he did me a lot of good. I just have never heard of someone that only weighted 150 lb. needing this firm of the mattress unless they had something very seriously wrong with their back. I hope you get your problem worked out, as I know what persistent back pain is like. Good luck! This message was modified Feb 17, 2010 by eagle2
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Re: higher ILD?
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eagle2 wrote: I have a FloBeds and the almost perfect firmness levels for me are F/F/XF. And I am 6 foot two and weigh 210 pounds. How did you come to such a firm mattress? Did FloBeds recommend this to you? I would almost guess that your mattress is too firm. Remember that a firm piece of latex from FloBeds is 32 ILD. And extra firm piece is 36 ILD. Or thereabouts. Eagle, we back pain people are so very individual I don't think you can generalize. It's trial and error. I had the same configuration as you but at only 130 lbs F/F/XF is too soft for me. Fubu, it sounds like you've basically maxed out the firmness of the latex and that still isn't doing it for you. What happens to your back when you sleep directly on the floor? I do this when things get bad with my back just to get a little relief. It's not a solution since I wake up during the night with sore hips, shoulders and elbows and I don't get much sleep, but it does make my lower back happier. If you have a floor-loving back like mine you want more firmness, but if this doesn't provide relief you might want to try a different tactic. If you really do need more firmness, have you tried removing the eggcrate layer? I have my suspicions that such a thick layer of soft material may be causing me some problems. Though sleeping directly on the support layers didn't work for me. My other suggestion is that maybe you should switch one layer back to the VZone (extra firm). Since having the whole bed as firm as possible isn't working out, perhaps being able to vary the mattress strategically would increase your comfort. My VZone is currently XF under the hips and F under the shoulders, over supporting layers of F/XF, and this has been the best configuration for me so far. Linda |
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Linda said: "Eagle, we back pain people are so very individual I don't think you can generalize. It's trial and error. I had the same configuration as you but at only 130 lbs F/F/XF is too soft for me." I agree that generalizations are always suspect when they are applied to human beings. We are just too variable within ourselves, and life has a way of presenting too many intervening variables. That acknowledged, I think we look to our beds far too often as the source of our difficulty. Sometimes they are, sometimes they may contribute to the problem and exacerbate it, sometimes they are actually helping the problem from becoming worse, and yet we still blame the bed. For instance. I currently am suffering through some hip pain. But the hip pain has not been caused by my bed. It was caused by doing a job around the house where I had to do a lot of positioning myself very low and I stretched out some ligaments or something in the hip area. This is a case where only time and the proper stretching exercises are going to cure it. But my bed, depending on its firmness layers, can either hasten the healing process, if it is properly configured, or slow down the healing process if it's not properly configured. But we have to be able to tell the difference. I changed my mattress configuration yesterday to a firmer configuration. This has helped, it seems to me. Another thing that needs to be seriously considered is the foundation on which the mattress sets. If the foundation is not solid enough it will flex giving you misreadings on your mattress configuration ( here we're talking about latex mattresses that are configurable). One thing that could be done would be to put the mattress on the floor, if the floor is very solid. My home is built on a concrete slab so that would make the perfect foundation for a mattress if I'm trying to ascertain the proper firmness levels for the mattress. But if I had the kind of an ongoing problem with my lower back that fubu04 has I would be talking to a good chiropractor or osteopathic doctor (A DO not an MD). This message was modified Feb 20, 2010 by eagle2
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Eagle, you make so much sense it is scarey. I think the reason for my pain is sitting in a contour (not flat) shaped chair that hurts my hips all day, it pushes the hips up and hurts your bursa and nerves. I found a website that explains sitting on a flat chair is better for your hips than a contoured shape chair. These ergonomic chairs now days do more damage for the hips than help. I also use my back to do things instead of squatting at the knees due to torn meniscus and hip problems, so that explains my back pain. You are so wise. I am not going to make anymore changes to my mattress until I get my day pain in check. This message was modified Feb 20, 2010 by Leo3
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Re: higher ILD?
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Leo: Thank you for your kind words. Everyone likes to hear praise, but for some reason, it gets sweeter as we get older. I'm going to post a link to a post made by Kate, here, http://www.whatsthebest-mattress.com/forum/discouraged-does-latex-break-lot-after-week-two/9420-0-1.html. It is post #14 placed today. She gives a very important and detailed response to the very question of "What can be causing our back pain besides our beds?" Here is a woman who has spent a great deal of money, and put a great deal of thought, into correcting her back pain besides constantly changing the configuration of her mattress. She realizes that there are many things we do besides spend eight hours a night on our mattress that can be causing, or at least contributing to, our back pain. There are many, many, many reasons for back and neck pain. The ancient Greek physicians utilize something that doctors need to return to in our modern day and age of endless tests whether that be by blood, x-ray, or you name it. They ask their patients a series of important questions. The first one being "What you do to make a living?" In other words what kind of exposure does your body have to stress on a daily basis. They knew that most of our maladies came from our exposure to physical stresses. We all know that you have to have the proper mattress, to not only get a good nights sleep, but to live a healthy lifestyle. But when we have examined the minutia of our current configuration and are still having problems, the common sense thing to do is, look elsewhere for what might be causing the difficulty. Many times commonsense thinking(combined with judicious investigation of the Internet) can possibly do more for us than all the doctors in the world. This message was modified Feb 20, 2010 by eagle2
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