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I have a latex mattress with a 6" Blended talalay core 32 ILD. On top of the latex core, I have tried a) 2" and b) 2" + 2" of all-natural latex ILD toppers (for clarity, two different configurations: 6" 32 ILD+ 2" 21 ILD.... or 6" 32 ILD + 2" 21 ILD + 2" 21 ILD). The cover is a stretch knit. No mattress protector yet. From a hip / spinal support point of view, I find the 6" + 2" configuration too hard. With the 6" + 2" + 2" configuration, I find that hip / spinal support starts to suffer. Based on how these two configurations have felt, I suppose a 6" 32ILD + 3" 21 ILD configuration would probably be optimal in terms of hip / spinal support for me. But I have problems with how the mattress feels for my shoulders / arms. In both configurations, the mattress feels hard on my shoulders / arms. As a result, I toss and turn. I miss the pillowtop feeling of my former innerspring matters (although the support was poor for me). Does anybody have recommendations for creating more of a "pillowtop" feeling for the latex mattress and improve pressure relief for shoulders / arms? I have read that some of you have tried zoning and have experimented with memory foam and latex 14 ILD, over the other latex layers. Have you found those strategies to be effective? Just FYI, I am an average body side sleeper. So shoulder / arm comfort is important in the mattress. Thanks very much.
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| Just as FYI, I did read somewhere else, that if you are going to do this type of mattress surgery, that cutting the foam with an inexpensive electric meat carver is among the easiest ways of getting a clean cut. |
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sandman wrote: A wool filled mattress pad can help with heat issues. I am somewhat heat sensitive, but fine with current configuration. Occasionally in summer I might put 1" latex on top, but never as comfortable that way. I have the softer shoulder zone on just one side of my queen. I notice less shoulder jam on that side vs the other, even with 3" of foam above it. Hi Sandman -- glad to see you are still here. I am trying the shoulder-cutout thing (cut out a piece of the 2" firm-ish Dunlop topper that I got from Overstock a few years ago). It might be helping some, but not quite enough at present (one problem might be the supersoft foam that I have in the cutout area; could be too soft). Right now I have my 2" 22ILD Talalay topper (from Arizona Mattress Co.) on top of that, instead of the 1" 24ILD + 1" N3 toppers I used on top before. (Pretty sure I've tried every possible combo of toppers, plus a bunch of zoning experiments.) I do love my Dormeir wool mattress pad. It's very stretchy, and I'm sure it helps with heat issues. For that one memory foam topper that I tried, though, dissipating the heat probably would have required a couple inches of wool instead of the thin layer that's in the pad. Despite my earlier postings saying how much I despise memory foam, obviously I got desperate enough to try it -- and I am currently using a memory foam pillow. Go figure....
Tessie, I'll be curious to hear how you like the fiberbed. This message was modified Nov 6, 2013 by Catherine
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Catherine,
I know that you have tried many configurations and products. Have you ever tried a soft dunlop 14 ILD as a top layer? I believe it is more synthetic than natural. One is Puralux, from Latexco... it supposedly has a nice feel. This is the one I am considering: http://www.overstock.com/Bedding-Bath/Sleep-Invigorate-All-Natural-Latex-2-inch-Mattress-Topper/7482583/product.html
Just wondered if you have experience with this type of soft dunlop? I have seen posts from women who like this over talalay latex.
Tessie
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Tessie wrote: Catherine, I know that you have tried many configurations and products. Have you ever tried a soft dunlop 14 ILD as a top layer? I believe it is more synthetic than natural. One is Puralux, from Latexco... it supposedly has a nice feel. This is the one I am considering: http://www.overstock.com/Bedding-Bath/Sleep-Invigorate-All-Natural-Latex-2-inch-Mattress-Topper/7482583/product.html Just wondered if you have experience with this type of soft dunlop? I have seen posts from women who like this over talalay latex. I have not tried that. The Dunlop topper I have is from Overstock, but it's a medium rather than a soft topper. I believe that it's about 20% natural and 80% synthetic. I wouldn't be opposed to trying a softer Dunlop... if someone else were paying for it. My hips seem happy with the medium Dunlop; it's just my shoulders that are the problem. It's the reverse with Talalay; my hips sink down too far unless I go up to about 32ILD... and then I get pressure points. Maybe I need a slightly bigger cutout and something different in the cutout area. (The cheap electric knife I bought has gotten lots of use in various mattress surgeries and zoning attempts.) -Catherine This message was modified Nov 6, 2013 by Catherine
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Catherine, I know that you have tried many options and the cost, well let's not go there. I appreciate your honesty and I have read your posts to learn from your experiences. I looked for someone of similar size and age. So, I am taking things slowly now, hoping to make wise decisions and not spend a fortune. My mattress is softening slightly and I have a piece of packing eggcrate under my hips to keep them from sinking to far and make it through the night. My rib cage, shoulders, arms, and even my hands take a punishment all night and it takes an hour or two before I feel like myself in the morning. Never had this before, but I believe that I can make my mattress comfortable. Have you ever seen an illustration of a 7 zone latex mattress? Saw this online a month after my mattress purchase and thought that this design might work best for many women: http://www.nontoxic.com/latexmattress/7zone_explained.html I will keep your yoga mat in mind if I need to firm up my hip area as I add a comfort layer or two down the road. It's a good idea. Tessie |
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Sandman: I tried memory foam in the top layer. I used a 2" 4lb Aerus memory foam topper which I had in a guest bedroom. I tried it only on my side of the mattress (to avoid disrupting my wife's side of the mattress). This is the config (from top to bottom): 2" 4lb Aerus memory foam 2" all-natural latex 21 ILD 6" blended Talalay latex 32 ILD Having the memory foam in the top layer improved things a lot for me. I found the top surface to be softer and more accommodating, providing better pressure relief. I will try this for a few more days to insure these findings continue to be true. I think I have two more findings: 1) 4" of soft material is too much for me. With either 2" + 2" latex 21 ILD or with 2" memory foam + 2" latex 21 ILD spinal alignment suffers, and I feel it in the morning. You had indicated that this was likely to happen. I have also found that 2" of soft material is too little and my hips can feel the harder layer underneath. So the solution appears to be a 3" soft layer (with a mix of memory foam and latex) 2) Although memory foam has improved pressure relief materially, my shoulders still feel crunched when side-sleeping. Shoulder(s) just does not go down enough into the mattress (although it is better with memory foam on top). As I go to a total of 3" of soft material (based on the point above), the shoulder problem is likely to get worse. So I think I will have to attempt zoning. This is going to be complex given my configuration. I think I will have to do the zoning at the 32 ILD layer level. But this is a 6" core, so cutting into it is going to be challenging and I risk ruining the core. Maybe the best course of action is to add another 2" layer of 32 ILD latex (same ILD as the core) right on top of the core (and below the soft layer) and make the zoning there. But this option would be expensive. Thanks for attaching the FloBeds vzone layout. I will not attempt to replicate it because it is very complex, but the measurements of the zones will help pinpoint the position of the soft material in the zoning. Based on the vzone layout, it appears that - for an E King mattress - the soft zone for the shoulders should have a width of 10.75" and be placed 10.75" below the top of the mattress (therefore, starting from the top of the mattress, it will be placed between inches 10.75 and 21.50). Please let me know if I am understanding the numbers correctly. (I know this note is getting confusing with me using the word "top" to mean different things in different paragraphs, but I do not know what other word to use). I saw another post that talked about the zoning that Custom Sleep Design used to recommend. It was customized to the height of the sleeper. But in general terms, the softer zone was located in the top 29" - 34" of the mattress (therefore, pretty much overlapping with the first three zones in the vzone layout). I would appreciate your recommendation on where to place the soft zone for the shoulders based on your experience. Please also let me know if I am missing something and there is a simpler way to do the zoning. Thanks very much! |
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Yes, you have a tricky situation because only 3 layers. I would not cut into the core at this time until all options are thought out. The problem is you probably don't want the zone 6" deep, and you don't want to (potentially) ruin the core. And it might not be possible to cut just. 2-3" deep layer. Since you might have an extra 2" 21 topper, I am wondering if you should try putting a zone in one of those. Even 21 latex will push on you shoulder, and 14 latex or memory foam in that spot will push back less. Your measurements from the vzone are correct, but I know when I tried the vzone,they had a 3" strip across the top. So, everything was pushed down a few inches relative to to head of the mattress. I will measure mine. The first thing I would do is lay on the mattress as you normally would for sleep, and mark where the top of your shoulder hits. The zone should start a little higher than that and go down at least 10". I just measured my zone and it starts 11" from the top and goes down 12". So, I made it a little bigger than the vzone. I am 6'4". Again , don't expect miracles if you do this. The mattress will still push back against your shoulder, just less. For me it seems to be enough that it doesn't bother that much. Part of what may help is that my zone (by accident) is a little thinner than the piece it replaced, and probably 13-15 ILD softer. What also might help your situation is having a medium 24-28 layer above your core. It is possible you don't have enough depth and transition between firm and soft. This message was modified Nov 7, 2013 by sandman
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Sandman: Thanks! This is very valuable information and it gives me a path to go improving things ste-by-step. I guess I will now go into a process spanning several weeks sourcing materials and experimenting with the mattress. Thanks very much!!! |
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I received the fiber bed that I ordered from Overstock... thought I'd try it as a latex free alternative topper. It received glowing reviews from all on Overstock, except, it won't from me. It made for a very lumpy, ugly top to my bed. Maybe if I gave it more time, it would have evened out, but it did not give me the feel I was looking for. You get what you pay for... it's going back. On another note, as time goes by, my mattress feels like it is breaking in and I'm getting used to it. I thought I needed a topper but not sure now... will wait a while before I try one. I have a St. Dormier protector on top of the mattress cover, then a Snugfleece Elite wool fleece topper (pretty thick). I did buy a set of new jersey knit sheets that I really like. They actually make the bed feel softer. They are from The Company Store and are supposed to fit really thick mattresses, but the fitted sheet just fits mine at about 11-12". If I add a topper under my wool fleece, I don't think it will fit well. The stretch of these sheets does help preserve the feel of what's underneath. If I try a topper, to relieve pressure points, it will be a soft blended dunlop, 1" or 2" of 18ILD 55K. I do have a small piece of cheap packing egg crate foam under my hips to keep them from sinking too low. This has helped my alignment. To check alignment, when standing, I put magic marker dots along my spine. It's an easy way to see your alignment on your mattress. (You can check it yourself with two mirrors.) Tessie |
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Tessie wrote: Catherine, http://www.nontoxic.com/latexmattress/7zone_explained.html.... I might try different foam in the shoulder-cutout area when I get some time. That might be a good spot for some memory foam. Sorry your Overstock fiber bed didn't work out. -Catherine |