Mattress Forum

I tried memory foam in the top layer. I used a 2" 4lb Aerus memory foam topper which I had in a guest bedroom. I tried it only on my side of the mattress (to avoid disrupting my wife's side of the mattress). This is the config (from top to bottom):

2" 4lb Aerus memory foam

2" all-natural latex 21 ILD

6" blended Talalay latex 32 ILD

Having the memory foam in the top layer improved things a lot for me. I found the top surface to be softer and more accommodating, providing better pressure relief. I will try this for a few more days to insure these findings continue to be true.

I think I have two more findings:

1) 4" of soft material is too much for me. With either 2" + 2" latex 21 ILD or with 2" memory foam + 2" latex 21 ILD spinal alignment suffers, and I feel it in the morning. You had indicated that this was likely to happen. I have also found that 2" of soft material is too little and my hips can feel the harder layer underneath. So the solution appears to be a 3" soft layer (with a mix of memory foam and latex)

2) Although memory foam has improved pressure relief materially, my shoulders still feel crunched when side-sleeping. Shoulder(s) just does not go down enough into the mattress (although it is better with memory foam on top). As I go to a total of 3" of soft material (based on the point above), the shoulder problem is likely to get worse. So I think I will have to attempt zoning. This is going to be complex given my configuration. I think I will have to do the zoning at the 32 ILD layer level. But this is a 6" core, so cutting into it is going to be challenging and I risk ruining the core. Maybe the best course of action is to add another 2" layer of 32 ILD latex (same ILD as the core) right on top of the core (and below the soft layer) and make the zoning there. But this option would be expensive. 

Thanks for attaching the FloBeds vzone layout. I will not attempt to replicate it because it is very complex, but the measurements of the zones will help pinpoint the position of the soft material in the zoning.

Based on the vzone layout, it appears that - for an E King mattress - the soft zone for the shoulders should have a width of 10.75" and be placed 10.75" below the top of the mattress (therefore, starting from the top of the mattress, it will be placed between inches 10.75 and 21.50). Please let me know if I am understanding the numbers correctly. (I know this note is getting confusing with me using the word "top" to mean different things in different paragraphs, but I do not know what other word to use).

I saw another post that talked about the zoning that Custom Sleep Design used to recommend. It was customized to the height of the sleeper. But in general terms, the softer zone was located in the top 29" - 34" of the mattress (therefore, pretty much overlapping with the first three zones in the vzone layout).

I would appreciate your recommendation on where to place the soft zone for the shoulders based on your experience. Please also let me know if I am missing something and there is a simpler way to do the zoning.

Thanks very much!  

The problem is you probably don't want the zone 6" deep, and you don't want to (potentially) ruin the core.   And it might not be possible to cut just. 2-3" deep layer. 

Since you might have an extra 2" 21 topper, I am wondering if you should try putting a zone in one of those.   Even 21 latex will push on you shoulder, and 14 latex or memory foam in that spot will push back less.   

Your measurements from the vzone are correct, but I know when I tried the vzone,they had a 3" strip across the top.  So, everything was pushed down a few inches relative to to head of the mattress.   I will measure mine.

The first thing I would do is lay on the mattress as you normally would for sleep, and mark where the top of your shoulder hits.  The zone should start a little higher than that and go down at least 10".

I just measured my zone and it starts 11" from the top and goes down 12".  So, I made it a little bigger than the vzone.  I am 6'4". 

Again , don't expect miracles if you do this.   The mattress will still push back against your shoulder, just less.  For me it seems to be enough that it doesn't bother that much.  Part of what may help is that my zone (by accident) is a little thinner than the piece it replaced, and probably 13-15 ILD softer. 

What also might help your situation is having a medium 24-28 layer above your core.    It is possible you don't have enough depth and transition between firm and soft. 

Thanks! This is very valuable information and it gives me a path to go improving things ste-by-step. I guess I will now go into a process spanning several weeks sourcing materials and experimenting with the mattress. Thanks very much!!!

On another note, as time goes by, my mattress feels like it is breaking in and I'm getting used to it.  I thought I needed a topper but not sure now... will wait a while before I try one.  I have a St. Dormier protector on top of the mattress cover, then a Snugfleece Elite wool fleece topper (pretty thick).  I did buy a set of new jersey knit sheets that I really like.  They actually make the bed feel softer.  They are from The Company Store and are supposed to fit really thick mattresses, but the fitted sheet just fits mine at about 11-12".  If I add a topper under my wool fleece, I don't think it will fit well.  The stretch of these sheets does help preserve the feel of what's underneath.  

If I try a topper, to relieve pressure points, it will be a soft blended dunlop, 1" or 2" of 18ILD 55K.  I do have a small piece of cheap packing egg crate foam under my hips to keep them from sinking too low.  This has helped my alignment. 

To check alignment, when standing, I put magic marker dots along my spine.  It's an easy way to see your alignment on your mattress.  (You can check it yourself with two mirrors.)

Tessie

I have seen the 7-zone mattresses, and I think 7 zones is overkill. Plus, I made myself nuts experimenting with different combinations of foam for just 2 zones; trying any more zones would do me in.

I might try different foam in the shoulder-cutout area when I get some time. That might be a good spot for some memory foam.

Sorry your Overstock fiber bed didn't work out.

-Catherine

Tessie

Tessie, a 32 ILD + 38 ILD core would be WAY too firm for me as a side sleeper and I'm 5'11, 150lbs (25 lbs heavier than you).

Toto, I don't believe you stated your weight, but 6" of 32 ILD is too firm for a lot of people who don't weigh at least 170-180 lbs.  The host of the other major mattress forum is 195lbs and sleeps on 3" of 22 ILD over 4" of 28 ILD over 3" of 22 ILD (plus some soft foam in the quilting of both sides of his 2-sided/flippable mattress).

I've been building a DIY mattress for the past few months and I currently have the following set up in a 12" zippered 4-way stretch knit cotton cover (similar to the Pure Latex Bliss covers):

2" 15 ILD Celsion
2" 19 ILD
2" 24 ILD
3" 28 ILD
3" 28 ILD
plus...
3" 19 ILD topper (Rejuvenite branded) on the very bottom between the 12" zippered mattress and the slatted bed base.  This COMPLETELY changes the feel of bed for the better (makes it even softer) in my opinion.  I got this idea from the Pure Latex Bliss 4" LatexBase that they use with the World's Best Bed.  Essentially, it's a similar design to having a 2-sided/flippable mattress with soft foam on the bottom beneath the firmer core.  I've come to the conclusion that this makes a world of difference and that I cannot sleep comfortably on any other latex set up which omits this layer.

So 15 total inches of latex.
 

As a 150lb side sleeper, this feels about right (I've only been back on this combo for about a week afyer trying some other configurations listed below).  My wife is closer to 100lbs and our current set up is *almost* too firm for her as a side sleeper (but it's tolerable).

All of our cores are split, and I have also tried the following combos for my side of the 6" base/core:

6" of 32 ILD (the firmest I would EVER want to go and I think this would be too firm in the long run - I only slept on this combo for 1-2 nights)
3" 32 ILD + 3" 36 ILD (much too firm - I tried this out initially before any other combo and immediately went softer after the first night)
3" 28 ILD + 3" of 32 ILD (this one is tolerable but I still prefer 6" of 28 ILD)

In short, even swapping one of the 3" base layers from a 28 ILD to a 32 ILD makes a VERY NOTICEABLE difference to me.  I just think that adding more and more soft stuff to the top isn't always the best solution.  My advice is to get the core/base right first and possibly consider a soft piece on the BOTTOM instead (counter-intuitive I know).
 

Additionally, I have been experimenting with pillows throughout my DIY mattress journey and I found that 1 lofty pillow caused immense shoulder pain with the softer set up I'm using now (6" of 28 ILD for the core).  The reason is, this setup was soft enough that as a side-sleeper, it allowed my entire upper body to collapse onto my arm (just below my shoulder actually).  I was completely cutting off circulation and my arm would feel sore all day.  This went on for about a week.  Then I added a second pillow (in an angled configuration) and this lifted my upper body off of the mattress a bit and the pain completely went away.  So with the softer core, I need 2 pillows.  I can get away with 1 pillow if I make the core firmer (my upper body no longer collapses onto my arm), but then the mattress feels too firm overall.

Hope this helps! (although it's a bit late I'm sure)

My stats: male 5ft 10". 175lbs. Side sleeper. This is an update to share my current configuration and results (from top to bottom):

2" talalay 21 ILD

2" talalay zoned: 21 ILD in the shoulder area... 28 ILD below that (torso, hip, leg, feet area). I made this zoned layer by cutting latex that I had purchased

6" talalay core 32 ILD

I am sleeping better than I have had in many years. This mattress is an improvement over anything I have had before. However, I still experience some (but not much) shoulder pain (the upper, outside, part of the arm), which I attibute to pressure points. The hip support is on the edge of being sufficient. There is no lumbar pain in the morning, but in a perfect world, I would prefer a bit more support at the hips.

In earlier comments, Sandman described his configuration, which has 5" of soft material at the shoulder level (1" mem foam + 1" 24 ILD + 1" 19ILD + roughly 2" 17/19 ILD in the zoned layer) and higher average ILD (than mine) at the hip level (you can see Sandman's configuration and his comments earlier in this thread). Whenever I am ready to experiment again, I will attempt to get a bit closer to his configuration to get more pressure point relief in the shoulder zone, and a bit more support in the hip zone. Another potential path is to make the zoned layer 3" and increase the ILD of the core. Not sure yet. Fortunately, my current configuration is good enough that I can take my time to think the next move.

I am really impressed at the way people help each other in these forums. Some members have a lot knowledge and experience, and devote a lot of time to helping others. Sandman gave me very valuable advice. As did the host of the other forum. I want to thank them. They have made a difference in the quality of my sleep. 

Congratulations Toto!  Mattdud.