I am just plain lazy today ;-D - I need some info from latex buyers/users
I know I could do a search. I know I've done so before. Right now I am just soooo not in the mood to go back and look for and read latex info.  I want to buy 1" or 2" of Dunlop latex (because I've slept on Talalay and never Dunlop; want to try the Dunlop). Can someone remind me who has it cheapest? I know I investigated this 4-5 months ago but I have completely forgotten. I took all memory foam out of my mattress last night and slept better than I have in weeks. Still woke up with a sore back, but much better. The only other time I tried it without the memory foam was when I used 2 x 1" of my soft latex and I think that was too much soft foam for me. Now I'm back to 1" of soft latex without the memory foam and it's better, but I do guess that my HR foam has crapped out, so time to replace it with latex. What ILD do you recommend for my bottom layer(s) over my springs? When my bed was working for me, I only had 1" of HR foam over the springs so I am guessing that should do it with the latex as well. I think the ILD I used was about 32, so with Dunlop I might want to go with 28? or would that be too soft? (as I recall, Dunlop is naturally firmer than Talalay so you use a lower ILD, no?) Also, I'm not sure - maybe I can find this in my receipt somewhere - the HR foam might have been as high as 36ILD. I had 3 ILD's one firm, one medium and one very firm, and I used the medium sometimes and the firm sometimes, but don't recall the exact ILD's. This message was modified Jan 10, 2010 by jimsocal
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Re: I am just plain lazy today ;-D - I need some info from latex buyers/users
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In terms of performance natural latex 'outperforms' on many different levels. In terms of durability yes, because natural rubber is far more elastic than synthetic or your typical synthetic blend the cells are more resilient...so much so that actually a very low ILD natural latex in Talalay or dunlop will be a far more resilient piece of rubber than even a pretty high ILD piece of 100% synthetic rubber. I have pieces of latex on my showroom that are aged about 3 years, all of which have seen a fair number of peoples hands touching them and compressing them (oil from our skin can damage latex over time) as well as seeing its fair share of UV radiation, the natural stuff still feels completely pliable and virtually unchanged, the synthetic blend has become a little bit more brittle and dry, the 100% synthetic sample I have from Sealy (which ironically is the one I usually keep out of plain sight and in a sheltered dark corner of the showroom because I only want to show it to specific people due to it looking like an eye-sore) is completely cracked along the surface in many different directions and feels like it has lost a lot of its support. There is another myth about latex in our industry that synthetic blends are used because apparently 100% natural rubber isn't very durable without it, or it will begin to bio-degrade. It's not going to bio-degrade in even 50 years of useage, (not saying to keep it that long) but realistically this is not a factor in the life span of a mattress core, it is how the cells respond to the physical abuse we put them through that matters. There is of course the whole conformance to body shape that is oh-so crucial in getting a mattress to perform properly in terms of ergonomics which elastic materials tend to help with so much. As I mentioned earlier when a rubber tree is damaged in the wild the milk comes to the surface and forms a large rubber knot, this is done to prevent infections and disease to the tree. It is the actual proteins in natural rubber that make it resistant to various types of micro organisms living in it. Calling synthetic or even blended rubber hypo-allergenic is somewhat misleading. Natural rubber will literally stay cleaner on a microscopic level as well. There is no real legal definition of hypo-allergenic. Some companies are just a little more upfront about their defintion than others. There is one company I deal with that makes very high quality down filled pillows and duvets, they guarantee they are hypoallergenic......for 90 days, because they have no control over the conditions of the home they will end up in. I just know for myself if I intend on keeping a matress for 20 or more years that I want something that has proven allergen resistance. |
Re: I am just plain lazy today ;-D - I need some info from latex buyers/users
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Budgy, you are a font of information and I appreciate all the input you have given about latex! I will also have to re-read it about 63 more times to totally absorb it, but will copy it over to a file so I can refer back to it in the future. I know latex is an extremely long lasting foam, and now I understand why. I have not used it in my bed layering due to two reasons. One, I had a latex bed once, mattress that was supposed to be 100% latex throughout(before I knew anything about ilds and such). On the sales floor, it was dreamy. At home, I didn't sleep all that well on it. I sweated, my hubby sweated a LOT, it never gave me that aaaaahhhh feeling when I went to bed. Then it developed a butt-dent, so I gave it away. It was super duper heavy to move, but it was a CA king. Later on, I bought a latex topper from a natural latex company but it was too boingy to sleep on for me...every time I turned around, I bounced and woke myself up! Also seemed to sleep hot, under the thick mattress pad and sheet. Wish that there was a foam that was long lasting and not so bouncy and sweaty as latex. What is your company name? There are some Canadian posters on here that might like to know where you are. Kait |
Re: I am just plain lazy today ;-D - I need some info from latex buyers/users
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Kait wrote: Budgy, you are a font of information and I appreciate all the input you have given about latex! I will also have to re-read it about 63 more times to totally absorb it, but will copy it over to a file so I can refer back to it in the future. I know latex is an extremely long lasting foam, and now I understand why. I have not used it in my bed layering due to two reasons. One, I had a latex bed once, mattress that was supposed to be 100% latex throughout(before I knew anything about ilds and such). On the sales floor, it was dreamy. At home, I didn't sleep all that well on it. I sweated, my hubby sweated a LOT, it never gave me that aaaaahhhh feeling when I went to bed. Then it developed a butt-dent, so I gave it away. It was super duper heavy to move, but it was a CA king. Later on, I bought a latex topper from a natural latex company but it was too boingy to sleep on for me...every time I turned around, I bounced and woke myself up! Also seemed to sleep hot, under the thick mattress pad and sheet. Wish that there was a foam that was long lasting and not so bouncy and sweaty as latex. What is your company name? There are some Canadian posters on here that might like to know where you are. Kait I think unless I am PM'ed I would prefer to keep my company name somewhat confidential, only because I think it would be unfair to promote ourselves on a public forum with out paying for it. I wonder what kind of mattress pad you were using, because latex itself is pretty breathable, however its not designed to wick away moisture. It is of my belief that the top most layer in pretty much every bed should be natural materials, cotton or wool filled pads or quilted layers in the mattress usually alleviate any concerns with heat. We also carry Tempur-Pedic which is notorious for sleeping hot, we are actually at the point where we typically recommend from day one people use a wool filled pad instead of a water proof one on them, as so far any customers that have complained about heat we have been able to solve it for them by giving them a wool filled pad after the fact. When you look at most of the true premium latex beds on the market they all have one thing in common, wool quilting layers and cotton covers. The other thing is that most mattress manufacturers now-a-days build latex mattress in atleast some limited capacity, most of these non specialty brands tend to upholster polyurethane foam into the top quilted layers of the beds making them sleep a little bit hottter and of course making them more prone to develop body indentations. But yeah latex is definitely not for everyone, and the very 'best' quality rubber in reality is also the bounciest lol. For most people this isn't a big issue but I could definitely understand not liking that kind of bounce in a pillow. But I do hear you on the bounciness of rubber, some people do not like it. We are exploring new options to give people alternatives, some hand made pocket coil mattresses with basically just a small amount of rubber on top or perhaps no foam at all, I am sure a Hastens bed would last a long time but they are a little pricey. |
Re: I am just plain lazy today ;-D - I need some info from latex buyers/users
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Thanks for all the great info. Budgy! Do you know if there is any heat buildup difference between 100% natural dunlop and blended talalay? I have heard some people say that dunlop retains heat even more (possibly due to the higher density?). I am one of the rare people that finds latex too hot at times, even with the wool filled flobed cover and a wool filled natura mattress pad. I don't seem to get overly hot on a firm innerspring. This message was modified Jan 12, 2010 by sandman
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Re: I am just plain lazy today ;-D - I need some info from latex buyers/users
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Hi Budgy, Thanks for the info...it's very informative. I have been posting on the "Just bought a new Flobeds" thread and so I am finding your info helpful. Thanks for reconfirming that I am not imagining that my all natural Talalay is bouncier. I made some changes and it's doing better but I am wondering if this "bouncier" effect is part of the reason that the hip area is giving way more than the rest? (Or is it just a sign that I enjoyed the holiday eating too much as my friend suggested this am?! LOL. ) Seriously, since I am 5'7" and about 135 lbs (and female)...I wouldn't think that there is an extra weight issue so I am wondering what your thoughts are. Also, I apologize if I am repeating something already said somewhere but it has been a lot of information to take in but I didn't realize there was an all natural Dunlop? My impression was that the Dunlop was used more in the manufacturing process (big bed makers) as it was cheaper. I assume it's still firmer than the all natural Talalay but are saying that you feel the Talalay is still superior? Finally, what's PM'd? Curious if you will cough up your whereabouts somehow...we have a second home in Alberta that I am now convinced I am going to buy latex beds for when I get a chance. I suspect I know where you are however.... Thanks! TJ12
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Re: I am just plain lazy today ;-D - I need some info from latex buyers/users
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As far as heat retention differences I would imagine it to be nominal. Most people sleep warmer on a mattress that conforms to body shape simply because there is more contact with the mattress as opposed to a firmer innerspring. Wool will of course also keep you warm, just tends to be more bearable in the extremes because it at least keeps you dry. If your mattress already has wool quilted into it, then you would probably find a cotton or silk mattress pad would be even cooler than wool. Most truly natural latex foam is in reality dunlop. the cost difference in terms of what process is used is incredibly small. natural latex is however much more expensive, and in the case that most dunlop is denser that just means there is more latex. it takes approximately a full 8 hour day for a rubber tapper to collect enough rubber to make a queen mattress (6 inches thick), the talalay process may be slightly more expensive, but the extra rubber typically found in a natural dunlop core is far more expensive to collect. The worlds most expensive all latex bed uses all natural dunlop. I definitely wouldn't call talalay superior as a blanket statement, however when dealing with blended latex (synthetic and natural) yes talalay is a better process to use. Something tells me you might indeed have an idea of where we are lol. PM (Private Message) me if you wanna confirm your suspicions lol. |
Re: I am just plain lazy today ;-D - I need some info from latex buyers/users
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Latexco, a Belgian company, that has two locations in the United States, one in California and one in Georgia, is one of the world's largest manufacturers of latex. It looks to me like they tend to emphasize Dunlop. But they definitely make quite a bit of blended Dunlop according to their website. I am going to give you a link to one of their websites and a page that gives some excellent definitions regarding density, ILD (hardness), and resiliency. It makes for some interesting reading. http://www.latexco.com/tested-quality/ This message was modified Jan 12, 2010 by eagle2
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Re: I am just plain lazy today ;-D - I need some info from latex buyers/users
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definitely some good reading. they are really about the only company I know of that makes blended dunlop latex, although they are pretty unspecific as to the ratio used. That much I would be curious to know. The bit about Hysteresis essentially confirms numerically the extra bounce of natural rubber as it absorbs less energy than their blended dunlop. |
Re: I am just plain lazy today ;-D - I need some info from latex buyers/users
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eagle2 wrote: Latexco, a Belgian company, that has two locations in the United States, one in California and one in Georgia, is one of the world's largest manufacturers of latex. It looks to me like they tend to emphasize Dunlop. But they definitely make quite a bit of blended Dunlop according to their website. I am going to give you a link to one of their websites and a page that gives some excellent definitions regarding density, ILD (hardness), and resiliency. It makes for some interesting reading. http://www.latexco.com/tested-quality/ Now THAT is interesting. Their California location, in Buena Park, is not *too* far from me - maybe 1.5 hours. I'll have to take a drive over there. Their latex looks interesting. |
Re: I am just plain lazy today ;-D - I need some info from latex buyers/users
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Budgy, I have a question re latex that I'd like your opinion on. I found this page at sleepez.com : (http://www.sleepez.com/latex-mattress-buyers-guide.htm ) for an interesting discussion of various types of latex and processing. I'd be curious as to your opinion of this page's info. Now: I was going to buy a Natural Dunlop 1" layer from them but I found a review that makes me wonder about the quality of their latex. I'm not asking you to comment on sleepez as a company but rather I'm curious as to how this could have happened. This is what I'm talking about: A member of this forum (who no longer seems to post here) bought some latex from Sleepez and then wrote a great review but then later had problems. (By the way Sleepez has now successfully addressed the complaint and made the clients happy. But there is no explanation as to what happened. This is the complaint they had: (this is found in the Review section under SleepEz) "our topper failed and is permanently compressed to less than half the 3" it is supposed to be (for the second time).[i.e.; they got one replacement and it did the same thing] I also explained that there are large, permanent, uncomfortable 1-1/2" to almost 2" deep divots in our bed (measured and photographed). We put the topper on a brand new Sealy Latex Weybridge with matching boxspring. ...They were kind enough to switch out our Medium/Soft ILD topper when the first failed, but we only found that the second one compressed down and did the same thing." This is what I am confused about: I have always heard that good quality latex does not get impressions, certainly not in a short time (they said, 3 months). If it was on a new mattress, I figure it certainly could have sunk down into the cheap foam or synthetic latex (?) on the Sealy Weybridge. However, am I right in thinking that the latex itself should not have compressed, had body indentations in 3 months? They further write in their review: "When you put your hands on top and undernearth the topper where you sleep, you can feel the how thin the topper is compared to the edges. We are not heavy people either, me being 135 and my husband 190. This is product failure..." Since I am considering buying from this company, I'm curious as to whether or not they may be selling "crappy" latex, latex that craps out after a short time. The one I was going to buy claims to be Natural Dunlop. I'm not sure which one this couple had trouble with, as far as I can see they never said exactly which latex they bought. ( tried to contact them to ask but have not received a response.) My question, then, is: Is it possible that some latex could permanently compress and have body indentations in 3-6 months time under people of normal weight? Should I be suspect that Sleepez' latex is not of a high quality? Could it be that even though it's natural latex with Dunlop processing, it is not good latex? Again, I am not asking you to comment on Sleepez specifically, but maybe you can comment on my general questions that the Sleepez complaint brings up: Can and does decent quality latex sometimes compress like they describe? Also, again, let me note that this complaint has been resolved by Sleepez. The customer writes: [We received] "an equitable solution to the problems with our latex topper. Our faith in a good, caring business has been restored. Thank you SleepEZ for fixing our problems." But they don't say HOW it was resolved, so I don't know if it was the fault of the latex or not. Sorry for this long question but I figured if I provided the details maybe you could get an idea what the problem might have been. Also if anyone has any personal experience with Sleepez latex, especially the Dunlop natural latex, I'd love to hear your review. |