Mattress Forum

I would definitely check the core of that mattress. If not latex, then I'd shop elsewhere for that price range. Flobeds offers their posture deluxe which can be configured completely with 100% natural Talalay latex from Latex International. About the same price too.

On a different note, I'd ask if their warranty also covers the bamboo encasement. I purchased some shirts made of bamboo fabric a couple of years ago, and have thrown them all into the garbage already. My experience with bamboo is that it doesn't last too long. Each of my three bamboo shirts developed tears in them after only a few dozen uses.The one which was a cotton/bamboo blend lasted longer. I'm done with bamboo fabric until they can figure out how to make it last. I have pure cotton dress shirts which are over ten years old which still look great. These have been worn hundreds of times.

Great! If it is 100% Natural latex all the way through I would think it is worth the investment. There are not many manufatures of natural latex foam in country. The mattress manufature actually just covers it and layers it to their needs. So if it comfortable to you then I would say it is a great buy. I am not a big fan of the Bamboo fabrics as they do tear easier than cotton, but overall it seem to be a good mattress.

If the toppers are Talalay then it may be worth the price. But you can also buy 3" layers much cheaper at overnightmattress.com and build your own mattress with 3-4 layers, cheaper that way. Then just get a wool topper somewhere. For $1290 in a Queen you can get a 3" core of 36ILD Talalay + middle core of 3" 32ILD Talalay + 3" of 19ILD Talalay - that's 9" of Talalay in a Q for $1290, an excellent price imho. Check their prices on Toppers/cores: http://overnightmattress.com/itemMatrix.asp?GroupCode=LAT&eq=&MatrixType=1

I don't work for them nor have any interest in promoting them, other than to point out what looks like a great deal when I see one. With 120 day return privilege it looks very good and I had one good experience with them a few years ago. I wanted 2" but I may buy one of their 19ILD layers. I would look very carefully into their written exchange/return policy before buying. Before when I returned something from them it was a strict policy but they did make the refund to me.
 

Jimsocal, I do not believe the latex at overnight mattress is the 100% natural. I'm thinking it is blended. I do not see anywhere on their site where they mention 100% natural latex, and I'm pretty sure LI does not make the 100% Natural in 14 ILD. Their prices are still very good for blended LI talalay however.

The cheapest place online I've found 100% natural latex is SLAB, and that will cost around $2k for 9" of 100% natural LI Talalay in queen size. A quality encasement using 1.5" or more of wool is at least another $500.

Once again, I'd verify if their warranty covers the bamboo encasement. as long as it does, it should be a very nice bed.

Jim,

That is an excellent idea. The Dunlop layer should be the core and the Talalay should be the chusioning layers.

The one thing about overnightmattress.com is the Talalay Latex they use blended latex and not 100% natural latex. Over 90% of the 100% natural latex sold my Latex international is a blened latex. By law they only have to have a very small percentage of 100% natural latex in the mattress to call it 100% natural latex. It is still better then most available, but not really any cheaper then you can get Blended Talalay Latex in many other places. It sounds like you have used them and they do honor their return policy so it sounds like a solid company to do business with and fair pricing. If you go that way you do want to use progressive layering and by that I mean you want to use a highest ILD on the bottom and each level above each layer should be = or lower ILD then the layer under it.
 I always believe you should use a 4 to 6" Dunlop core and then add the Talalay as the cushioning layers above. The cushioning layers above could be whatever ILD you find comfortable.

Latex has gotten to be the most difficult to figure out over the past couple fo years and very misleading. You will see 85/15, 60/40 as examples of blended latex. Most would think it is 85% natural Latex or 60% natural latex, but what it really means is it is 85% Blened Latex and 15% Ploy or 60% Blened Latex and 40% Poly. The 85% or 60% blended could actually only be 5% Natural Latex in either one or it Could 50% natural latex. Even could be less or more than those numbers and the only way for you to find out is to contact latex international and ask them directly.

I dont want to talk the company you are talking about. They sound like a good company and they have treated you well by offering a good product at a fair price and good customer service. That is hard to find in compaines now and when you find one better hold on to them :)

Dave

Megalops,

Latex International does produce some 100% Latex mattresses, but it is less than 10% of their sales. They are the largest supplier of latex in North America and most companies that sell latex beds will be buying it from them. It is very hard to find a 100% natural latex mattress and when you do they are very expensive.

I dont believe the warranty will cover the encasement. I dont know of any manufacture that covers fabic or stitching in their warranty.

I really think it sounds like a good deal still, but I am now sure it is a blended latex. Nothing worng with it as it is still an excellent product and the talalay process is the best process for making consistant density latex.

::chuckles:: Call them up and say you are almost ready to make a purchase, but you want to make a deal with them. You will call Latex International and verify it is 100% natural latex and not blended. If it is blended you get it for 1/2 price and you would want that deal in writing. See if they take the deal or not. lol...the sales person may not actually know if it is blened or not though. I like tossing those types of deals at people just to see their response. You will be suprised how many people start back tracking and changing their story when you make them offers like that.

I'm pretty sure your statement is incorrect if refferring to Latex International. Latex international's Talatech is a 30/70 blend. 30% natural latex and 70% synthetic. Latex International's 100% natural latex is > 90% latex (some reports as high as 98%).

Your statement may hold some merit when referring to some other companies latex (like the 'S' companies), but not LI.

I do believe the mattress in question could be 100% natural Talalay from LI based on the price. I just purchased a similar setup from flobeds using LI 100% natural latex at a comparable price. I still prefer the flobeds mattress due to the cotton/wool cover vs. the bamboo/wool cover used by this company. But if tjstogner is comfortable with this company and can get it in writing that they're using LI 100% Natural Latex, then it should be a nice bed at a fair price. I just don't think the cover is going to last too long.

No I am correct with Latex international. I worked with them for years and have spoke indepth with our account rep and others at LI many times. Currently we do not offer any products from Latex international and I havent for about 2 years, but I am still very up to date with them and play golf every few months with some LI emplyoees including my old account rep.

Good idea Dave. I have learned - unfortunately - that when it comes to people saying their latex is "100% natural" they sometimes either lie or don't really know. In any case I know that in the past one could call LI and ask and they would tell you if x vendor is indeed selling their latex and which type it is. MIght we worth actually giving them a call.

That said, while I think I do prefer 100% natural latex, the jury is still out on whether it really is any "better" and "better" is of course subjective especially when talking about comfort, not about durability. At least we know LI is a good company making a quality product, it's not like it's "jungle latex" with no consistency. But even that can be very comfortable, depending on the piece one happens to get! The problem with "jungle latex" (I mean latex from, say, Sri Lanka) is that you may find a great piece but then if you try to get another one exactly the same, it may be quite different.

http://www.greenmountainorganics.com/pdfs/savvy_rest/lilatex.pdf

Latex International (LI) certifies that the compound utilized to manufacture its Talatech® natural latex mattress cores and toppers includes only natural latex rubber harvested from the “Hevea Brasiliensis” rubber tree, as well as soaps and curing agents. We do NOT use any man-made or synthetic latex in our Talatech® natural latex formula.

The majority of 100% natural latex sleep products are produced via the Dunlop process, while our latex is produced via the Talalay process. LI’s proprietary compound mix required by the complex Talalay process includes raw materials such as natural rubber latex, zinc oxide, fatty acid soaps, and sulfur, which are needed for the vulcanization, foaming, and curing process.

You may want to share that with your golfing buddies, because I believe they're filling your head full of BS. Either that or the director of operations, Anthony Mancini is placing his job on the line and exposing LI to a massive class action suit.

Interesting. That letter is dated from 2007; it might be worthwhile to contact LI and find out if their terminology has changed since then (it's hard to tell from their website). My understanding is that Talatech is the trademarked name of their blended-latex product, in which case the phrase "Talatech natural latex" is a contradiction in terms and (obviously) a possible source of much confusion. If they're using "Talatech" to refer to both their blended and all-natural products, that's even more confusing.*

I don't doubt that tjstogner's new mattress is 100% natural latex (should be, for the price); I just think that name "Talatech," used the way it is there, is a bit problematic.

tjstogner -- I hope you love your mattress and sleep great on it.

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* And that might be the case -- see the LI-products comparison page on SLAB's website. "It is great that we offer more options but we also know that we have also made it much harder for someone to decide which topper is fit for them. To make it even more confusing ... the truth is that all these foams are Talatech® foams. The Talatech® that we originally knew is now a Classic Talatech® after the advent of Celsion™ and 100% Natural."  The Classic Talatech is described as "The original Talalay latex foam formula," which is "Blended Talalay latex foam made of botanical rubber and Styrene Butadine Rubber (SBR)."

(Shades of "Coke" and "Classic Coke" there -- not the best marketing strategy by LI, IMO; and I wouldn't use the "tech" suffix in the name of any all-natural product -- but hey, they don't ask me about these things.)

The best way to differentiate between the LI product lines is probably to go by the ILD designations, rather than by the names. ILDs of 14, 19, 24, 28, 32, 36 = blended. ILDs of N2, N3, N4, N5 = 100% natural. ILDs of 15, 21, 27 = Celsion (the blended stuff + phase-change material).

Thus endeth the Morning Geek-Out.

LI uses the term 'Talatech' for both products. They use Talatech Natural when referring to their 100% latex non blended version. If refering to their 30/70 blended product, they just call it Talatech.
 

I just noticed on that webpage the manufacturer's warranty on their Talatech Natural v.s. the Classic Talatech. They give a 20 year on their blended product, yet only a 10 year on their natural.

This leads me to believe budgy's theory even more about the LI making more money off their blended product vs. the all natural. They try to sway consumers and bedding manufacturers to buy their more profitable product by offering a much longer warranty which will almost certainly never be honored.
 

Well, I'm not sure it's fair to speculate on whether they'll honor warranties that long -- 20 years is a long way out, and companies can change a lot in that time.

If I had to guess, I'd say they might, just because of my own recent experience with LI Customer Service. The responsiveness and service from both SLAB and LI were outstanding. Just FYI.

I'm specualting that they won't receive products back with enough deterioration to meet the warranty requirements, not that they wouldn't honor it if there were.

I showed this to My one of the reps and he said that this is true for some of their products, but it is a small amount. The Talalay process is just a process and not a specific type of Latex. He informed me that 90% of their Talalay products sold is a blended and synthetic latex. The wording in this marketing add from this company is a little misleading and Talatech Natual Latex Formula is not the only Latex used with the Talalay process. He did say many compaines use this to make people think all Talalay Latex is 100% natural latex and not blended.

This is what is says on Latex Internationals Website:

http://latexfoam.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=57&Itemid=69

Latex is rubber, NOT plastic. There are 2 types of latex; NR or natural rubber latex and SBR (styrene butadiene rubber) or man-made latex. All latex is either a blend of the two or 100% natural latex. Natural latex is harvested from the rubber tree much like maple syrup is harvested.

All mattress components and pillows from Latex International are 100% latex. For the majority of our products, we use a proprietary blend of natural and man-made latex to provide the optimal balance of comfort and durability. Natural rubber latex is used to provide that great contouring feel. Man made latex (SBR) provides durability and helps in creating a product that is very resilient to body sets as it can be compressed over and over and will continue to provide showroom feel.

Two things with the warranty.

1st THe warranty has nothing to do with the life of the porduct. It only protects you against Defects in material and manufacturing. Anything that is considered normal wear and tear is not covered under waranty.

2nd. The 20 year waranty is 10yrs non prorated and 10yrs prorated.

They will honor the waranty just fine, but if the mattress is 15 yrs old it is going to be hard to prove that is was defect and not normal wear and tear.

The Natural Blended it 100% Natural Latex blended with Synthetic, which is still a great product. It done this way just to bring cost down a bit.