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Hi Folks,
I'm choosing a mattress at Gardner Mattress in Salem, MA...Just can't decide if I should go with an Inner Spring or a Pocket Coil. Both have 2" of latex on top, 3" felt too soft for me. The Inner Spring is a very low coil count at 260 with very thick gauge. Will that lump up? Other problems? I worry the pocket coil won't last as long, but at 125 lbs and only me in the bed, maybe I', wrong...maybe it's what's ON TOP that matters (latex). Both have either no PU or very little PU, and they have a no-charge refund policy (30 day trial if I want to switch out). I can't afford an all-latex, so I have to choose between these two. HELP! Thanks This message was modified May 19, 2010 by a moderator
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Personally I think pocket coils get a bad rep some times because there are a lot of cheaper ones coming in over seas these days, and 99% of mattresses out there that use a pocketed spring also use a copious amount of standard PU foam over top of them. As always if you eliminate the major source of the problem (cheaper foams) I think either one of these mattresses will be reliable. One thing with coils to keep in mind is that the hardness of a coil has absolutely no reflection on the durability of the spring. If I had the full specs of each coil (actually all i need is spring count (and what size of mattress that count is based on) coil gauge, and the number of turns of wire in each spring) I can get you the actual spring rates to demonstrate this (within 90% accuracy). |
| budgy - Isn't 260 way too low for a spring count? I think you once posted a full size mattress should be minimum 300 with the high end being 500 or more? Do I remember that incorrectly/ |
| no, you are right...260 is pretty low....really the lowest ive ever seen in person for a double is 312...which is also pretty low and basic. |
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Thanks, Folks.
I hope I haven't made a mistake. I did go and buy the inner spring (and actually, the coil count was 206!) with 2" of 19ILD talalay latex. I don't know...I don't think Gardner would make a bad mattress, but I do worry that the very low coil count will lump up. I can always change...it doesn't get dleivered for 3 weeks.
All their steel is made by that really good company - I for get the name, Legat something or other. VERY thick gauge inner springs, low count might = lumps. I'm a side sleeper who digs her elbows in while reading on stomach each night! So tough to make the choice. THANKS for any additional advice you have. |
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Is the model you purchased on the Gardner web page or is it a custom model just for you? The only ones with latex on top which they show are the "Ivory Plush Top" and the "Pocket coil". I tried both of those in the store and liked the plush top best. I don't think you can go wrong with a Gardner product. Mark |
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Hi Again mark,
yes - it's the Ivory Plush Top! I do remember you saying that's the one you liked. Here's a VERY cool link to the exact insides of it. I do hope it holds up and doesn't get lumpy, even w/the low coil ount - but as you say, anything from them should be very good.
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Hi Again mark, yes - it's the Ivory Plush Top! I do remember you saying that's the one you liked. Here's a VERY cool link to the exact insides of it. I do hope it holds up and doesn't get lumpy, even w/the low coil ount - but as you say, anything from them should be very good. This message was modified May 19, 2010 by a moderator
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lookingnow wrote: Hi Again mark,
yes - it's the Ivory Plush Top! I do remember you saying that's the one you liked. Here's a VERY cool link to the exact insides of it. I do hope it holds up and doesn't get lumpy, even w/the low coil ount - but as you say, anything from them should be very good. I really like their approach - it looks like they do things by hand, and I like the cotton and latex... I just wonder why they put a layer of polyester and a layer of PU foam in there? Without those it might be really great. I wonder if you could get them to make it with latex for that layer instead of pu foam, and leave off the polyester or replace it with ?? Budgy, why would they put those layers in there? What could they be replaced with? And where can I buy cotton to try a layer of cotton like that? This message was modified May 19, 2010 by a moderator
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| my guess is they still use those layers to make the mattress softer. im not really sure the best place to source from but I am sure getting cotton batting is not overly difficult to do. although unlike foam layers, getting natural fibres into place and preventing them from shifting around does require a little bit of skill id imagine. |
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budgy wrote: Personally I think pocket coils get a bad rep some times because there are a lot of cheaper ones coming in over seas these days, and 99% of mattresses out there that use a pocketed spring also use a copious amount of standard PU foam over top of them. As always if you eliminate the major source of the problem (cheaper foams) I think either one of these mattresses will be reliable. One thing with coils to keep in mind is that the hardness of a coil has absolutely no reflection on the durability of the spring. If I had the full specs of each coil (actually all i need is spring count (and what size of mattress that count is based on) coil gauge, and the number of turns of wire in each spring) I can get you the actual spring rates to demonstrate this (within 90% accuracy). I had a Simmons years ago and liked it a lot at first but within a year it began to hurt my back. I think when I moved it to a new apartment, the coils went askew. Is this not a common problem with pocket coils any more? That they go askew during moving, sometimes during delivery? I would consider buying pocket coils for my next mattress if I thought they would not migrate, and would last at least a couple years... And as to doing surgery on a pocket coil mattress - would it be essentially the same, just as do-able? Thanks for your continuing to share your expertise re springs and latex. I'm sure that everyone here appreciates it as I do! |
| I really don't think that was ever a common problem with Simmons....but they have actually gone down hill now that they are using polyester fabric shells just like everyone else. The old Simmons coils used to actually move independently....very few pocketcoils really seem to do this as advertised with the really tight polyester pockets. Even though out of the major brands I am a bit of a Simmons fan (or used to be) I would think pretty much everything these days is on an even playing field....just don't buy anything foam encased for a DIY build. And stay away from most overseas coils like Serta's pocket springs are unbelievably light and cheap. |
| I really don't think that was ever a common problem with Simmons....but they have actually gone down hill now that they are using polyester fabric shells just like everyone else. The old Simmons coils used to actually move independently....very few pocketcoils really seem to do this as advertised with the really tight polyester pockets. Even though out of the major brands I am a bit of a Simmons fan (or used to be) I would think pretty much everything these days is on an even playing field....just don't buy anything foam encased for a DIY build. And stay away from most overseas coils like Serta's pocket springs are unbelievably light and cheap. |
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budgy wrote: I really don't think that was ever a common problem with Simmons....but they have actually gone down hill now that they are using polyester fabric shells just like everyone else. The old Simmons coils used to actually move independently....very few pocketcoils really seem to do this as advertised with the really tight polyester pockets. Even though out of the major brands I am a bit of a Simmons fan (or used to be) I would think pretty much everything these days is on an even playing field....just don't buy anything foam encased for a DIY build. And stay away from most overseas coils like Serta's pocket springs are unbelievably light and cheap. I read MANY posts on the net about people who hated their Simmons pocket coils starting about 10years ago when I was getting rid of mine. A lot of people were saying that the springs had migrated and someone at a store told me that the individual coils were not very stable and drifted a lot causing discomfort. You are surely more trustworthy a source but I did read a LOT of negative posts re Simmons pocket coils! May I ask who you know that makes pocket coils now that are good, besides Simmons? Or when you say "even playing field" do you mean they ALL suck? |
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LOL well I guess we could sort of say that. I really think this idea that the coils migrate is more a myth. Pocket coils flex more than most standard springs as they are not reinforced by helical wires, so the foam itself flexes more than it does on a normal spring....this might somewhat contribute to more severe body indentations which does seem to happen. I guess my skepticism is just that none of these people probably ever looked on the inside of the mattress after it 'failed'. I have cut open a few warrantied Simmons mattresses. I would even cut the springs out of the pockets where the major indentations in the mattress were located, I would measure the height of the coil inside and outside of the pocket (they were precompressed before being placed in the pockets) so it was a pretty good way to measure empirically if the springs had in any way started to deform. I've never seen migration of coils or a reduction in spring height even in pretty old mattresses.....atlhough if you were to lay on them...they felt horrible, big peaks and valleys, very lumpy upholstery. That kind of idea. I personally think that Simmons coils from 10 or 15 years ago were probably the best they ever made, but they also started to use a lot more and cheaper foams during that same time, and that trend has continued. In todays pocket coil arena 90% of what you find will be made by Leggett or in China. Truth be told most of them are pretty comparable....I would prefer the Leggett Spring just because I like the idea of supporting American business more than something so far away from home. Simmons still makes their own, but they have over the last couple years moved closer and closer to the way Leggett and other spring makers have done their pocket coils and the differences now are basically negligible. As always comparing spring counts and gauge of wire is still the best medium of comparison since at this point the design is not dramatically different. I had a chance to look at the guts of a Vi- Spring mattress recently....I was honestly blown away by how it is made and how it feels even to the hand, although at certain point to get that kind of quality spring you don't just buy that mattress for a DIY build because they did everything else right anyway. I also carry a brand called GreenSleep and they make their own hand made pocket coil system....I wouldn't put it quite onto Vi-Springs level but you can tell that it is not your normal mass produced spring system. Again though any of these mattresses are already finished with materials you wouldn't want to remove. |
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jimsocal wrote:
I really like their approach - it looks like they do things by hand, and I like the cotton and latex... I just wonder why they put a layer of polyester and a layer of PU foam in there? Without those it might be really great. I wonder if you could get them to make it with latex for that layer instead of pu foam, and leave off the polyester or replace it with ?? Budgy, why would they put those layers in there? What could they be replaced with? And where can I buy cotton to try a layer of cotton like that? The 206 count was either for the Full or the Queen - I forget which. I am concerned about it and still wondering if the pocket coil is a better bet, esp after reading what Budgy said in this thread. You can see the coil "outdents" on the sides of the mattresses and there seems to be an awflu lotta space between each one The full-size cost me $1418 after a 10% discount that they give to basically everyone. I went down a size because of the cost. I've slept on it for 2 nights and it's hard but perfect for my stomach and side sleeping for NOW anyway. I get a 30-day trial and am still deciding if I should switch it for the pocket coils. I am mostly worried about my elbows digging in for that hour of reading every night. I think pocket coils wouldn't lump up and am worried springs will, but also can't deal with any sinking while sleeping on my back. Budgy? Any last thoughts? And thanks for your hlep, guys. Oh, and damn. I meant to cut open my old King Koil and take photos for y'all. :) |
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budgy wrote: LOL well I guess we could sort of say that. I really think this idea that the coils migrate is more a myth. Pocket coils flex more than most standard springs as they are not reinforced by helical wires, so the foam itself flexes more than it does on a normal spring....this might somewhat contribute to more severe body indentations which does seem to happen. I guess my skepticism is just that none of these people probably ever looked on the inside of the mattress after it 'failed'. I have cut open a few warrantied Simmons mattresses. I would even cut the springs out of the pockets where the major indentations in the mattress were located, I would measure the height of the coil inside and outside of the pocket (they were precompressed before being placed in the pockets) so it was a pretty good way to measure empirically if the springs had in any way started to deform. I've never seen migration of coils or a reduction in spring height even in pretty old mattresses.....atlhough if you were to lay on them...they felt horrible, big peaks and valleys, very lumpy upholstery. That kind of idea. I personally think that Simmons coils from 10 or 15 years ago were probably the best they ever made, but they also started to use a lot more and cheaper foams during that same time, and that trend has continued. In todays pocket coil arena 90% of what you find will be made by Leggett or in China. Truth be told most of them are pretty comparable....I would prefer the Leggett Spring just because I like the idea of supporting American business more than something so far away from home. Simmons still makes their own, but they have over the last couple years moved closer and closer to the way Leggett and other spring makers have done their pocket coils and the differences now are basically negligible. As always comparing spring counts and gauge of wire is still the best medium of comparison since at this point the design is not dramatically different. I had a chance to look at the guts of a Vi- Spring mattress recently....I was honestly blown away by how it is made and how it feels even to the hand, although at certain point to get that kind of quality spring you don't just buy that mattress for a DIY build because they did everything else right anyway. I also carry a brand called GreenSleep and they make their own hand made pocket coil system....I wouldn't put it quite onto Vi-Springs level but you can tell that it is not your normal mass produced spring system. Again though any of these mattresses are already finished with materials you wouldn't want to remove. |