Just bought a new Flobeds
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I just purchased a new FloBeds. It is the 100% natural Talalay 4 layer mattresses. The top most layer being a soft egg crate 2" piece of Talalay. I purchased the following configuration. On the left side of the bed I have a median top layer, firm middle layer, and extra firm bottom layer. On the right side the top layer is firm, the second layer is extra firm, and the bottom layer is extra firm. I felt that this should give me an opportunity to switch the layers around and come up with the configuration that will work the best for my 6' 2" 210 pound frame. It has been quite a wrestling match, reading all the different descriptions that various people like, when it comes to firmness layers. You also run into this with some of the websites. No two people seem to consider this the same way. So I'm just going to have to experiment. This is one of the main reasons that I went with FloBeds. They have the most liberal exchange policy coupled with a generous return policy. They definitely get more money than some of the other sites. But when you're purchasing something this expensive from the Internet, and cannot lay on it, feel it, look at it, and even smell it, it's good to have a situation where you can make corrections at a nominal expense. Given the fact that FloBeds has an excellent reputation with the BBB, and Dave and Dewey Turner are excellent people to do business with, it just seemed to make good sense to me to consider the extra cost as an insurance policy. One last point I would like to make. I just realize that I have been misspelling FloBeds name. I had been misspelling it "FlowBeds." Wrong! It is spelled FloBeds.com. I hope I have not misdirected anyone. It will probably take about a week to get this bed in my home, set up, and slept on. When I have had an opportunity to do this I will be sure to post back and let you know what my experiences are, as I know how confusing this kind of a purchase can be. This message was modified Sep 22, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
| Hi Eagle, I know form experience that the density makes quite a difference (in addition to the ILD rating), hence the reason why dunlap rated at the same ILD as natural talalay will feel much firmer (in my experience). I wonder also about one other factor in your "experiment", that is, do you know the exact ILDs of the 2 pieces you are comparing? I know Flobeds tries to aim right in the middle of the range for each firmness (e.g. 28 for med and 32 for firm); however, if you got a piece of firm that was on the lower range of 30-34 and a piece of medium on the higher range of 26-30, they could effectively have very close to the same ILD. Some of the pieces from that this might be a factor as well as the difference in density. I'm still having formatting problems, and have no idea how to fix! So, I'm sorry this is hard on the eyes.... Linda |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
| Oops, my message appears to be missing a line now. I was saying that some of the pieces form Flobeds also have the LI label still on them, indicating the exact ILD as measured by LI. Perhaps your pieces do, and you know they are different ILDs, but I wanted to mention that this might be a factor in addition to the differences in density. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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linda wrote: Oops, my message appears to be missing a line now. I was saying that some of the pieces form Flobeds also have the LI label still on them, indicating the exact ILD as measured by LI. Perhaps your pieces do, and you know they are different ILDs, but I wanted to mention that this might be a factor in addition to the differences in density. You know Linda, you make a very interesting point. Yes I have noticed that some of the pieces of latex have the original Latex International calculations pasted on them. In fact the medium piece of all-natural, as rated by Latex International, was 26.2 ILD, as best I can recall. The FloBeds sticker said 28 ILD. My assumption is that for the convenience of warehousing and therefore picking layers to ship to customers FloBeds tries and standardize their ILD ratings. So in essence my medium piece is actually on the very lower end of the ILD rating, not in the middle as stated by the FloBeds sticker. But in fact we are only talking about a difference of 1.8 ILD. The density situation is much more important I believe. I read a very good article about ILD ratings one time, and I believe I posted it somewhere, but with my faulty memory I would have an awful hard time trying to find it. But it went into great lengths of explanation about how ILD ratings works. They conducted a very scientific experiment. They use the same type of equipment with five different companies doing measurement. They made sure of the sizes of sample pieces, the humidity and temperature was heavily controlled, and they still came up with quite a bit of variance from company to company in ILD rating. I think we can become lost in the numbers. This business about the density I believe is probably every bit as important, if not more important, than the ILD number. Did you read my post regarding this and the downloaded PDFs from the Foam Manufactures Association, or what ever their name is,it's a trade group promoting polyurethane foam. It is very informative, even though it is principally about polyurethane foam they do talk about latex. So in the end I'm going to use the JimSoCal approach to determining what is best. I'm going to sleep on it and report my feelings. But it is good to have more information. I kind of look at information as something like ballast in a seagoing vessel. I don't know whether you're aware of it or not but ballast has been utilized in seagoing vessels forever. This is what gives blue water ships the ability to stabilize themselves, to some extent at least, in rough weather. So I feel like the more information I have, on any given subject, the less likely I will be to be blown off course by every chance gust of ill-informed wind.  This message was modified Dec 4, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
| All of my layers have the LI ratings on them. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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For anyone who has been following this thread you know that I acquired a firm piece of blended latex from FlowBeds to try out. I have found that for me the all natural 100% botanically grown latex feels better as opposed to the blended product. I believe the reason for this is the fact that the natural latex is denser. My one piece of blended is rated a 32 ILD firm. And while the surface tension of the latex is slightly firmer than the medium piece of all natural rated 28 ILD, when I am laying on it I have found, that for me, while they are quite similar, the natural has a more supportive feel due to the density of the material. Therefore I have changed my bed back to an all natural configuration. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Just thought I would add a side note to my ongoing experience with my FlowBed. I had requested an exchange of my firm piece of blended latex, for a firm piece of all natural latex. I was just comparing the shipping weight for the blended piece of latex compared to the shipping weight for the all natural that was shipped yesterday. There is a 7.6 pound differential between the blended and the natural. The shipping box for the natural weights 31 pounds, the shipped box for the blended weight 23.4 pounds. This is due to the difference in density between the blended piece and the all natural piece, both of them being rated Firm with an ILD of 32. This is the point I was trying to make with the PDFs that I posted from the Polyurethane Foam Association in my thread "What is more important ILD or Density of foam?". The way ILD is measured, and the density of the foam, are two different things. It would be very helpful if the people selling latex would give both the ILD measurement and the density measurement of the various types of foam. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Eagle, I remember that flobeds told me that the 100% natural was also a bit thicker than the blended. So. that might account for some, but not all, of the difference in weight. I believe sleepez told me once that the blended and 100% natural had the same density. Could have been someone that did not know and just threw out an answer. It might be worth calling Latex International to see if there really is a density diffrerence and how much. It could also be that every batch might be a bit different. Hard to see that accounting for the difference you have though. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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sandman wrote: Eagle, I remember that flobeds told me that the 100% natural was also a bit thicker than the blended. So. that might account for some, but not all, of the difference in weight. I believe sleepez told me once that the blended and 100% natural had the same density. Could have been someone that did not know and just threw out an answer. It might be worth calling Latex International to see if there really is a density diffrerence and how much. It could also be that every batch might be a bit different. Hard to see that accounting for the difference you have though. Sandman: I understand your confusion and reluctance to accept at face value this evaluation regarding density between blended and natural latex. However, I would be very hesitant to accept SleepEZ's statement that there is no difference as they seem to prefer blended. As you can see on their website blended is somewhat cheaper than natural. A 3 inch California King piece of natural cost $485, a blended piece of California King 3" piece costs $441. It is interesting to note that on there web site for individual pieces they quote 3" but when they are talking about their mattresses and the thickness of the various pieces they talk in terms of 2.8". I don't know what's going on there. The variance in height that was referred to is correct. Dave Turner told me that when the latex is poured at Latex International that the normal manufacture process for blended is approximate 5.6 inches thick and for natural is a full 6 inches. They then slice the 6 inch piece at FlowBeds to make two 3 inch pieces of natural. The 5.6 inch blended piece is then sliced as two 2.8 inch pieces. Since I did not want to have a dip in the height differential between the natural on one side of my bed and the blended piece on the other side of my bed FloBeds found a damaged piece of blended and was able to cut for me a 3 inch piece of blended. As a consequence this allowed me to compare the shipping weights of two identically thick pieces of latex as I reported in my post above. There is nothing wrong with blended latex. It will make an excellent bed. But there definitely is a difference in density between natural and blended latex, at least there is between the two pieces that I received from FlowBeds that were manufactured by Latex International. Trust me. This whole business about density is quite important, it seems to me. And very well could account for all the difficulties that everybody is having trying to buy individual pieces of latex and get a comparison as they try to build their own beds. If you're buying polyurethane foam, it is pretty standard in the industry to talk in terms of density weights, as in so many pounds per cubic foot. This is a great help in determining the ability of foam to support weight. ILD is an important consideration, but as in so many things in life, only one consideration. It should not be, "The end all be all" of selecting latex. It is a rough indicator, and as such, quite helpful, " for comparing between different pieces of latex regarding firmness. But surface firmness, and density support, are two different things! The PDFs I posted tell-all about it. This message was modified Dec 19, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
| Eagle, I am not reluctant to accept it, but it would be nice to have some definitive data from LI on what the densities of the 2 different latexes are. Based on your experience, I believe they are different. I am sure sleepez is wrong (or at least the person I spoke to). However, even when I talked to flobeds originally, I got the impression that there were no significant performance differences between the 2. Based on your experience, I think there are performance differences due to the density difference. That does not mean that either one is necessarily better or worse. Just different. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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sandman wrote: Eagle, I am not reluctant to accept it, but it would be nice to have some definitive data from LI on what the densities of the 2 different latexes are. Based on your experience, I believe they are different. I am sure sleepez is wrong (or at least the person I spoke to). However, even when I talked to flobeds originally, I got the impression that there were no significant performance differences between the 2. Based on your experience, I think there are performance differences due to the density difference. That does not mean that either one is necessarily better or worse. Just different. Sandman said: "That does not mean that either one is necessarily better or worse. Just different." I agree!  |