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I just purchased a new FloBeds. It is the 100% natural Talalay 4 layer mattresses. The top most layer being a soft egg crate 2" piece of Talalay. I purchased the following configuration. On the left side of the bed I have a median top layer, firm middle layer, and extra firm bottom layer. On the right side the top layer is firm, the second layer is extra firm, and the bottom layer is extra firm. I felt that this should give me an opportunity to switch the layers around and come up with the configuration that will work the best for my 6' 2" 210 pound frame. It has been quite a wrestling match, reading all the different descriptions that various people like, when it comes to firmness layers. You also run into this with some of the websites. No two people seem to consider this the same way. So I'm just going to have to experiment. This is one of the main reasons that I went with FloBeds. They have the most liberal exchange policy coupled with a generous return policy. They definitely get more money than some of the other sites. But when you're purchasing something this expensive from the Internet, and cannot lay on it, feel it, look at it, and even smell it, it's good to have a situation where you can make corrections at a nominal expense. Given the fact that FloBeds has an excellent reputation with the BBB, and Dave and Dewey Turner are excellent people to do business with, it just seemed to make good sense to me to consider the extra cost as an insurance policy. One last point I would like to make. I just realize that I have been misspelling FloBeds name. I had been misspelling it "FlowBeds." Wrong! It is spelled FloBeds.com. I hope I have not misdirected anyone. It will probably take about a week to get this bed in my home, set up, and slept on. When I have had an opportunity to do this I will be sure to post back and let you know what my experiences are, as I know how confusing this kind of a purchase can be. This message was modified Sep 22, 2009 by eagle2
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sandman wrote: Eagle, I am somewhat like you in that I am now using medium/xfirm/firm or firm/firm/xfirm. The latter seems a bit firmer but more supportive (although I have only used firm/firm/xfirm 1 night). I have the Vzone, so the comparisons are not quite the same, but I am finding that the piece under the hips is the main variable. I use soft under the shoulders, which is nice. I have not felt any should pressure using this mattress. <BR><BR>I found soft under the hips is not supprtive enough. Medium/firm/xfirm is okay, but probably not enough support either.<BR><BR>Have you tried firm/firm/firm? That might be intersting in that it would be a little softer but with a deep level of support. Eventually I will probably swap out a couple of soft vzone pieces for firmer ones, but I will probably retain some flexibility for changes after the 90 day period is over. Sandman: You have a very different situation from mine since you have the Vzone. I would imagine this gives you a great deal of flexibility. I think for the immediate future I'm going to leave things as they are. As I reported in my last post, things seems to be going along fairly well and I awaken in the morning without any discomfort after having experienced a good nights sleep. So while the temptation to "fiddle" with the configuration is always there( although taking the cover off and moving these layers around gets to be a bit old after awhile) I am going to do my best to resist. That was one of the fears I had about the Vzone bed, was that I would "fiddle" too much. I have enough variables as it is. Yes, it would seem that our physical needs for firmness levels are paralleling one another fairly closely. But it certainly is reassuring to have someone like FlowBeds, and their liberal exchange policy backing you up, just in case you feel the need for an exchange. At this point in time, I am very glad that I found FlowBeds and purchased this mattress. This message was modified Nov 2, 2009 by eagle2
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Bed still configured , left side F/F/XF, right side M/XF/XF Since it's been a bit of time since I last updated this thread I thought I would add this thought. It is interesting how the body adapts over time. The longer I sleep on this mattress the more I enjoy the firmer latex. But it all depends on how the day has gone. A lot of the time I enjoy starting out on the softer side of the bed, but not always. Invariably as the night wears on towards morning I seem to enjoy the firmer side of the bed. So a lot of this depends on what is going on in our lives and how our bodies respond to it. But the old saying about trying out mattresses is certainly true. You have to sleep on them for a decent length of time to really find out what is too soft or too firm. This of course is only if the bed is not giving you pain. In which case you need to do something different right away. This message was modified Nov 14, 2009 by eagle2
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The blended piece of firm latex arrived today. The first thing I noticed was that there was very little odor when I unpackaged the layer. It had a very slight chemical smell, and a very slight cookie smell, but the odor was much lighter than the original odor that I experienced when unpacking the 100% natural botanically grown latex. This odor would not be a problem for me, as whatever there is, since it is so slight, I'm sure will dissipate considerably over time. I noticed that the 100% natural latex on my bed has almost completely lost its slightly sweet odor. therefore I can say without reservation,as far as I am concerned, that I would not hesitate to purchase a blended piece of latex because of any odor that it might have. The major difference that I noticed was that the blended firm piece of 32 ILD latex seem to be softer than the firm piece of 32 ILD natural latex. My guess would be that the blended piece of firm feels more like a medium piece of natural. This evaluation is extremely subjective, and amounted to nothing more than simply pressing down on the two pieces of latex with both of my hands spread flat against the latex with some body pressure. I will just have to sleep on it for a while to be able to give any kind of a definitive comparison. So now, according to the ILD on the layers. On the right side of my bed I have a firm, over extra firm, over extra firm. On the left side of my bed I have what I had before, namely, firm, over firm, over extra firm. Again the new piece of firm blended is on the right side of my bed and takes the place of the medium piece of natural that I had their previously. After I have slept on it for several nights I will report back on my experience. This message was modified Nov 30, 2009 by eagle2
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That's very interesting. If anything, I would have expected the blended to feel slightly firmer than the all natural. But really, I would have expected them both to feel identical because 1) they are both manufactured by the same company, LI, and 2) they undergo the same ILD testing. It doesn't make sense that they could share a similar ILD and yet one feel softer than the other. I'm also surprised that you say the smell on the blended was less noticable than with the 100% natural. Again, I would have expected it to be the other way around, if anything. I received a replacement piece of blended last week and could barely notice any odor from it. Keep us posted! |
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KimberlyH wrote: That's very interesting. If anything, I would have expected the blended to feel slightly firmer than the all natural. But really, I would have expected them both to feel identical because 1) they are both manufactured by the same company, LI, and 2) they undergo the same ILD testing. It doesn't make sense that they could share a similar ILD and yet one feel softer than the other. I'm also surprised that you say the smell on the blended was less noticable than with the 100% natural. Again, I would have expected it to be the other way around, if anything. I received a replacement piece of blended last week and could barely notice any odor from it. Keep us posted! I agree with you regarding the odor. I to expected the blended to have more odor than the all-natural. As I stated I did receive a slight chemical odor that I did not experience with the all-natural. The all-natural order was most assuredly a slightly sweet cookie dough odor. I rather like it. The odor from the blended was much less precise and much less noticeable, quite the opposite of what I expected. But that was the main reason that I ordered a blended piece so that I could check it out for myself. As far as the ILD goes, again I agree with you Kimberly, there should be no difference whatsoever. But I did find a research piece the other day and I posted it, indicating just how variable these tests for ILD can be. They can vary all over the place. Even from a company like Latex International who seems to have a more precise operation than most other companies, still you get this variance. That is much more troubling to me than the odor business since the smell diminishes with time, but the firmness of the layers stays the same. In any event the only thing that is going to matter in the end is how it sleeps. Once I have had a chance over several nights to evaluate the two firm layers which are right on the top of my mattress, I will post my evaluation. Looking from the foot towards the head of the bed on the left side I have a firm layer of hundred percent natural. On the right side of the bed I have a blended piece of firm. So this will give me a pretty good opportunity to see how each one of them sleeps. I will be sure to record my findings on this board. This message was modified Nov 30, 2009 by eagle2
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I called Latex International once about the smell, and they told me that the all natural might smell even stronger. They said that the smell comes from the natural latex. I have noticed a bit of a chemical smell with the blended as well. It does diminish. Although, I am use to it, and I kind of like the smell now when I am changing layers. I didn't like the smell in a pillow though. Flobeds told me that the natural latex is heavier than the blended, therefore it must be denser. That might affect the perception of feeling it by hand. The real test will be in the sleeping. As you noted, it does vary from piece to piece so we may not be able to draw any firm conclusion on the difference in firmness. |
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As I indicated yesterday the blended firm piece of latex feels softer than the 100% natural firm latex feels. I believe this is due to the density of the material. I would advise anyone purchasing blended latex to go one step firmer over natural. In other words if you feel that you need a firm piece of latex in a natural latex and you're going to order blended, order and extra firm piece of blended. And so forth. |
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Interesting. Just one more variable to have to deal with. It is hard to say if that will always apply, due to the differences in batches. However, all natural talalay may be somewhere in between blended talalay and dunlop in terms of inherent firmness. I seem to keep switching to firmer on mine because of a sense of sinking in too far. Last night I used XF on the top 2 layers over firm. However, I had 1" of extra Celsion as well. |
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KimberlyH wrote: That's very interesting. If anything, I would have expected the blended to feel slightly firmer than the all natural. But really, I would have expected them both to feel identical because 1) they are both manufactured by the same company, LI, and 2) they undergo the same ILD testing. It doesn't make sense that they could share a similar ILD and yet one feel softer than the other. I'm also surprised that you say the smell on the blended was less noticable than with the 100% natural. Again, I would have expected it to be the other way around, if anything. I received a replacement piece of blended last week and could barely notice any odor from it. Keep us posted! Yeah that WAS a surprising report on both counts. Counter to almost everything i've been reading on odor & firmness of blended vs. natural. either way, thanks for the update eagle. it's not your fault the data just adds to the confustion- what you felt you felt, what you smelled you smelled. |
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Yes the difference is real between natural and blended. The difference is in the density. A 3 inch piece of natural will weigh somewhere in the vicinity of two to three pounds more for a California King half sheet of latex. By "half sheet" I'm talking about the fact that most everyone gets their beds in split layers. So a half sheet, or layer, or core, or whatever you want to call it, will weigh about 2 to 3 pounds more in a natural as opposed to a blended piece. This translates into a softer feel for the blended piece. And I am going to suppose that it is less supportive due to the lesser amount of solids that wind up in the mix. "Just my guess!" I posted some time ago a rather lengthy piece about the difference between ILD and density. You would think that ILD would give you all the information you need to be able to judge the firmness of a piece of latex. But evidently this is not so. As is stated in one of the PDF's "foam density is independent of foam firmness." so if we are going to talk intelligently about this subject we need a lot more information and understanding. The link that I will give below gives you a lot of information. Go here and read this information. http://www.whatsthebest-mattress.com/forum/polyurethane-foam -association/31-0-1.html haysdb made a very informed post about foam. You will have to download the various articles as they are in PDF format. But it is a very precise informed response to all the speculative talk we have about density and ILD and other things. I made a post about this and got no response whatsoever from anyone. This information is provided by the "Polyurethane Foam Association" or PFA. This experience with the blended piece of latex just reinforces my belief in the validity of a company like FloBeds, with their excellent exchange policy, and if need be, a good return policy. So you pays your money, and takes your chances, with so many other companies. Sandman: I will be waiting your experience with the Celsion layer of latex. Latex International is very high on this as a new potential answer to latex sleeping too warm for some people. And since this is your principal concern with latex your experience with this new type of latex will be quite interesting to hear about. This message was modified Dec 1, 2009 by eagle2
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