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Hello all, Have read this forum for several months and have learned a lot. Recently took the plunge and bought a 3 layer zip cover 100% natural talalay configuration on a wood platform with slats about 2 1/2 inches apart. Have invested more than 2K so far in this setup. The problem is that I can't find a layer arrangement that works. I've learned that I need a soft layer up top or I wake with muscle pain, but then it gives me back pain. The firmer configurations also cause back pain. I do not ordinarily suffer from back pain, so it is definitely from the mattress. I did not buy from flo beds so cannot try their zoned approach. I weigh less than 120 lbs. My last best bed was an old spring air back supporter. I believe they were made with extra springs in the middle, or a different spring configuration to support the middle of the body, lower back and hips. It was a wonderful bed and they just don't make them like that anymore, as you all know. I researched an enormous amount to find a modern equivalent to the old spring air but couldn't find anything that was the same or even similar. Supposedly some of the innersprings now put extra reinforcement in the middle with extra foam instead of wiring, but I couldn't really confirm that. Also, with the new innersprings, there are a lot of offgassing issues, in fact I bought an S brand and had to return it due to the horrible odor that it had, and I have spoken with others who had the same problems. I also tried a cotton innerspring which was very uncomfortable, my husband said it felt like sleeping on the ground outside. So, I turned to latex, as they felt great in the mattress stores, but am not having much luck here with them at home. So what I am wondering is, perhaps the problem with latex is that each slab is the same consistency throughout, in other words, there is no extra reinforcement in the back area. So, 1) For those of you that switched to a ZONED latex, did it greatly improve the comfort and support in the back area? 2) Or has anyone found the right combination of softness on top-firmness for the back that they would recommend in latex or other combinations? 3) Or has anyone been happy recently with a comfortable yet supportive innerspring? thanks! This message was modified Sep 17, 2010 by jasmine
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Jasmine, Just for the heck of it - The old Spring Air innerspring mattress you liked - was actualy a fairly simple mattress. It had either a 540 LFK zoned coil in it with the coils zone with 14.5 - 14 - 14.5 gauge coils, or it had a 480 LFK zoned the same. Coil count based of full size. Many mattress manufacturers still use these type of coil systems. The coils were 5.5" tall and were 6 turn units purchased from Leggett & Platt - the biggest spring maker around. I was at the Spring Air factory in So. Calif. for 11 years. The Higher coil count was in the higher priced mattresses and, of course, the lower coil count was in the less priced mattresses. At that point in time they liked to use layers fo convoluted foam - and it seemed to work really well for a lot of people!
A lot of mattress makers have turned to pocketed coils and are using the same 14.5 - 14 - 14.5 gauge configuration. It also seems to be making a lot of people happy. BTY - that configuration means that the center third (Aprox.) of the spring unit uses a half gauge thicker wire spring. depending on the type of coil, height of coil, diameter of the coil, and number of turns in the coil means between a 12 to 19 % increase in support in the center third of the spring unit.
Gunman This message was modified Oct 18, 2010 by gunman4440
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Yes!!!!! Gunman, thanks for the great info! You have been  a huge help, you don't even know. Were these old mattresses an open end offset coil, do you know? Or pocketed? They didn't feel like they were pocketed, but don't know. If 540 or 480 was the coil count for a full, what would be the equivalent for a queen? Also, they had an almost trampoline like feeling to them, was this because the fiber layers were attached to the spring edges properly, instead of shoehorned into the covers like they supposedly are in beds today? Or were mattresses made using different methods back then? And finally, the new Spring Air mattresses use similar or same spring systems, but having found one in a local shop here, they don't feel anything like the old ones, and someone told me they are not anything like the old ones. Do you happen to have any info on the new Spring Air mattresses compared to the old? quality?, etc. Thanks again! This message was modified Oct 20, 2010 by jasmine
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Gunman, what do you think of the Sealy Posturetech coil system? The Reserve queen one I have has 782 14 gauge coils. Plus, the outer edge is foam, so the effective coil count might be even higher. Are that many coils of 14 gauge possibly too much? Seems almost too firm (being interlaced as well) to really provide much in the way of body conforming comfort. |
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Hey Sandman, sorry I'm not gunman, hope he answers again! That reserve level is supposedly the best spring system they have for the money....have heard that type spring system it is probably more comfortable for back sleepers, but can work for side sleepers with toppers. This message was modified Oct 20, 2010 by jasmine
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| Jasmine, I could have written pretty much your whole thread and empathize completely with you. I think you're likely better off with springs so good that you were able to return the latex. Am still on the search for a bed after painful (and expensive) failed latex attempts and wish I had never given up my two-sided S&F bed from the late 1990s. If only I knew then what I know now. |
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When I talked to the guy at Bay beds, he told me that one of the most common constructions of mattress that he made was latex over innersprings. He also makes all foam beds as well but his innerspring construction is his most common. I called him just now just to confirm what he told me and he said that he typically used individual coils either 15.5, 14.5, or 13.5 guage (customer's choice) and he had different ILD's of latex he could put over them again depending on choice. He also can make zoned coils but he said he also has other ways of zoning that he uses more commonly. Asked him about polyfoam and again he said he could make (or avoid) pretty much whatever people wanted. He typically uses different quilted covers including organic cotton/wool. I believe he also does "layer exchanges" There are also many "custom mattress manufacturers" who will make a bed to your order using any type of spring or comfort layers you may want. They are usually more than willing to talk about what may suit you best and their differing levels of advice and expertise is free. I didn't get into it with him this time but when I talked to him before his prices were very reasonable ... including his shipping charges. In other words he's a "make your own" with innersprings kind of guy. FWIW Phoenix This message was modified Oct 22, 2010 by Phoenix
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Here's another one that I thought looked interesting but I haven't talked to them or done any research on them other than looking through most of their website to see what options they offered. Phoenix This message was modified Oct 22, 2010 by Phoenix
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Hi Jasmine, I haven't been to this forum in many months, but just decided to have a look today. Perhaps you've already figured out what you need. I have posts from a year plus ago explaining the configuration that works best for me. But I'll repost briefly here again. Also if this comes through in one long paragraph, I apologize. Last few times I posted a year or so ago I couldn't figure out a way to fix (happened when I changed browsers) Anyway, I'm 5" 51/2 " and weigh 128-130 pounds. Due to lots of pain issues, I need a bed that's very soft on top, but also firm support. I bought a Flobeds natural talalay (3 layers of 3" each with a soft 1" convoluted topper piece over everything) and the combination that has worked best for me is a soft top layer, followed by 2 firm layers underneath. I would like it even a bit softer but if I put a medium under the soft, it's not supportive enough. The other side of the bed has 2 mediums with an extra-firm underneath. I prefer that if I"m lying on my back but can't sleep on my side on it (which is how I sleep on most of the time). All the layers are in the middle of their range for the firmness rating (see their website as I don't remember them all now, except that the soft one is 22 ILD) I would prefer to sleep with my old wool fleece pad on top as it was great for temperature control, but it makes the top too firm for me. I use a thin cotton mattress pad and all cotton or cotton/bamboo sheets (not high thread counts). I tried Flobeds latex pillows but have gone back to my down pillow.
Hope this helps and that you find the combination that works for you. |
| PS I did try the Flobeds zoned system but did not care for it, although some folks love it. |
cityskies, thanks for your post. saw some of your posts in some searches and thought at the time that we were having similar experiences. i think i'm in mourning for my old mattress and think of it so fondly now,  oh well. yes if i had only known then what i know now. it's amazing how much a bed can affect ones' quality of life. please let us know if you find something that works for you. phoenix, thanks for the bed maker references. i will look at them. don't know if they are this way, but most of the custom mattress makers i have found do not allow returns, which gives me second thoughts as one never knows how a bed will work, but i'm at the point where i might just have to purchase a non-refundable bed anyway. i've already lost hundreds of $ and still don't have a mattress. linda, thanks for what worked for you and i believe that a firmer config would have worked for me as well, if i ever try latex again, which is a big 'if", that is what i would do. sort of once burned, twice shy on latex right now but may give it another try. first i have to recover from my months long latex wrestling match. that wore me out! i'm looking for 2 things: a comfortable bed, and one that is reasonably non-toxic. hard to find, the non toxic especially. am currently sleeping on a doubled over fiber bed on top of a thin wool pad on top of an $18 cheap piece paper thin mushy piece of foam on top of a wood frame. believe it or not, even though it is not real comfortable, it still feels better on my back than the latex, so that tells me I need firmer. am still in the market for a mattress. would like to put an end to this soon, before it puts an end to me! This message was modified Oct 27, 2010 by jasmine
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