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Hello all, Have read this forum for several months and have learned a lot. Recently took the plunge and bought a 3 layer zip cover 100% natural talalay configuration on a wood platform with slats about 2 1/2 inches apart. Have invested more than 2K so far in this setup. The problem is that I can't find a layer arrangement that works. I've learned that I need a soft layer up top or I wake with muscle pain, but then it gives me back pain. The firmer configurations also cause back pain. I do not ordinarily suffer from back pain, so it is definitely from the mattress. I did not buy from flo beds so cannot try their zoned approach. I weigh less than 120 lbs. My last best bed was an old spring air back supporter. I believe they were made with extra springs in the middle, or a different spring configuration to support the middle of the body, lower back and hips. It was a wonderful bed and they just don't make them like that anymore, as you all know. I researched an enormous amount to find a modern equivalent to the old spring air but couldn't find anything that was the same or even similar. Supposedly some of the innersprings now put extra reinforcement in the middle with extra foam instead of wiring, but I couldn't really confirm that. Also, with the new innersprings, there are a lot of offgassing issues, in fact I bought an S brand and had to return it due to the horrible odor that it had, and I have spoken with others who had the same problems. I also tried a cotton innerspring which was very uncomfortable, my husband said it felt like sleeping on the ground outside. So, I turned to latex, as they felt great in the mattress stores, but am not having much luck here with them at home. So what I am wondering is, perhaps the problem with latex is that each slab is the same consistency throughout, in other words, there is no extra reinforcement in the back area. So, 1) For those of you that switched to a ZONED latex, did it greatly improve the comfort and support in the back area? 2) Or has anyone found the right combination of softness on top-firmness for the back that they would recommend in latex or other combinations? 3) Or has anyone been happy recently with a comfortable yet supportive innerspring? thanks! This message was modified Sep 17, 2010 by jasmine
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Hi Jasmine,
Here is what finally worked for us. We purchased from Costco the Sleep Science latex mattress (all Dunlop): Layer 1 – 1” 19 ILD natural latex – soft layer Layer 2 – 2” of 24 ILD natural latex – medium layer Layer 3 – 4” of 32 ILD natural latex – support layer Layer 4 – 3” of 24 ILD natural latex – medium layer and put it on an oak platform bed, with the soft layer on top. We ordered extra slats for the platform bed, so the slats are very close together, making a very firm foundation. I am a side sleeper, and this worked great - no stiff neck, no numb arms. No back problems either, but not cushy enough; we wanted something that had more of a sink-in feeling. We tried a 1.4" wool topper from Sheepish Dreams on top of the mattress, but woke up with an aching back. Off came the wool topper. (By the way, although the website describes this washable wool topper as having a cotton backing, it does not. The backing material is polyester.) Next, I purchased 1" of soft Talalay from Foam by Mail. The bed was much softer, but, again, I woke up with a sore back. Finally, I tried the wool topper on top of the 1" of soft talalay and it worked! The bed is very comfortable, no backaches, no numbness. Good luck! |
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That is intersting, but a bit hard to interpret. Individually both made your back worse, but together they were fine. If both added softness, then the combo should be even worse? I have found that a wool topper can make things feel firmer to me - less sinking in. I can't totally figure it out, but seems like it might pull tight and support heavier areas (at least that is my theory). So, maybe the wool topper offset some of the sinking in of the new talalay. Not sure why the wool by itself caused back problems though, but the way things work can be hard to predict. Little things can sometimes through off spinal alignment. This message was modified Sep 16, 2010 by sandman
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I think you are right, sandman. Wool topper alone is a little too firm and soft latex alone is a little too soft. The combination is just right.
(I fell like Goldilocks reading this!) |
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Hi Jasmine, Sorry you haven't found your combination yet. As a 170lb guy with lumbar back pain, side and back sleeper, I may share some of the same issues as you. After buying.... actual in house... over 20 mattresses over five years... then 1" to 3" combos of memory foam, latex in various configurations... started to figure out that I was all that time trending too hard. When I "scalped the Serta" and another time prior.. I followed other folks lead and stacked up two 2 inch sections of latex from FBM that was supposed to be 20 ILD talalay and on top of that 2 more inches (1 inch folded) into 6 inches... both on top of a mattress and on the floor. A complication here is that I believe the 2 inch 20 ILD from FBM was really "Dunlop"... different process... and was closer to 28-30 ILD and "quite firm." But coming back: 4 inches of what I believe to be 30 ILD and 2 inches of "soft" 20 ILD was "hard as a rock." Then I cut off the top of the mattress. (read my post) After much thrashing around I have discovered ... much to my shock that "soft 20 ILD" can be supportive... that somewhere between 4 and 6 inches of mostly 20 ILD latex in 1 inch increments... one layer of 14 ILD latex in combo with 4 lb (pretty soft) memory foam... can both support and be soft for my weight. You can test if you need soft cheaply: buy 2 pieces of 82x82, 1 inch, "supersoft foam" at www.foamdistributing.com... nice quality, cheap, fold it in half and have 4 inches to put on top of your soft & one layer of medium. The "supersoft" is about equivalent to 20 ILD latex from FBM.... and so is a good "test". If that seems like the right direction, you can buy some $94 1 inch Queen 20 ILD latex from FBM... the other division of the company. Good luck. shovel99 |
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DianeK,
Your post upthread regarding your latex experience sounds frustrating ... as well as a riddle. Your comment about your ear hurting really had me wondering. Are you using a pillow? Perhaps the pillow wasn't providing the necessary cushioning and/or was not adequate for you needs and was throwing your head/neck/shoulders/torso out of alignment which impacted the rest of your body? It seems odd that an ear would hurt as a by product of an unsuitable mattress. This message was modified Sep 17, 2010 by Lovegasoline
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Lovegasoline wrote: DianeK,
Your post upthread regarding your latex experience sounds frustrating ... as well as a riddle. Your comment about your ear hurting really had me wondering. Are you using a pillow? Perhaps the pillow wasn't providing the necessary cushioning and/or was not adequate for you needs and was throwing your head/neck/shoulders/torso out of alignment which impacted the rest of your body? It seems odd that an ear would hurt as a by product of an unsuitable mattress. |
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I agree that latex seems to change its feel throughout the night, maybe from room temperature and body heat. It does seem to vanish underneath me the longer i lay on it.... At the moment I am stumped as to whether to go firmer or softer and will try the suggestions here before I throw in the towel. If I had known how hard it would have been to find a new mattress and if I had found this forum before purchasing the S brand, I would have just done some mattress surgery on the old spring air. Now like many others here, I find myself in mattress purgatory. In fact most of this year seems to have been spent dealing with this issue. Such a pain! This message was modified Sep 17, 2010 by jasmine
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Do you have any memory foam sitting around that you can try on top? I think most, if not all foams (memory, latex, PU), will seem to sink in more after a few hours laying on them. Temperature is probably one factor and maybe the air gradually gets pushed out of the cells. Perhaps that is why steel springs can make a good base level, since they may keep the same firmness. I also think the foam then feels firmer after in it fully compressed. Either that or the pressure points take time to be bothersome. I think that is the difficulty in making something comfortable. I can have mine feeling great when I first lie down for a while, but inevitably I can feel too much firmness (on my hip bone mainly). Not sure if any combination of latex, memory foam, etc. can solve that problem. I think sleeping on the back helps spread the weight around more. I find sleeping that way difficult, but I have never really forced myself to stick with it. Has anyone out there been able to successfully switch from side to back sleeping? |
| sandman, i have some supersoft pu foam around which along with a fiberbed i was using to sleep on the floor for awhile. your point about springs is true, they give, but don't cave in. i think the problem with latex is that it pushes back and compresses at the same time. i find the soft latex is pretty good for relieving pressure points - the problem is what underlayers to put it on to also give support i think. |
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Springs by definition push back too. Also, they may not conform as well to the body shape. I guess the more expensive ones can do a better job at that. However, springs probably don't change significantly after laying on them for while (due to temperature or whatever). I am not sure how much firm latex changes after 1-2 hours, but it does seem to change a bit. Physics dictates that the mattress/box spring will "push back" with equal force as your body weight. Otherwise you would end up on the floor. It doesn't matter what kind of mattress. So, the only thing really can affect the pressure points is how that push back gets distributed along your body. Memory foam, soft latex, indiviudal pocketed coils, zoning, etc. help distribute the body weight to a way one prefers, but they cannot eliminate the force being pushed back. Of course the mattress will also dictate spinal alignment (i.e. back issues) and temperature as well. Trying to get the right weight distribution, alignment, and temperature is a complicated thing and difficult for some people accomplish in a satisfactory way. How thick is your foam and fibre bed? If not too thick you might want to try one of those on top to see what happens. This message was modified Sep 17, 2010 by sandman
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