Mattress Forum

I think part of the problem is that with a thinner pillow or a pillow that tends to compress or is hard, then the pressure from your head onto your arm makes the problem worse. I suspect that is why a latex pillow in the other thread helped because it "gave way" on both sides and lessened the pressure (and circulation cutoff) on the arm. I would think that a down pillow or even memory foam could do the same (pressure goes through both during the night).

I think that a latex pillow would be your best option. There are many but you could do worse than one of the rejuvenites.

Phoenix

To my disappointment, I really did not even notice or feel the Celsion.  Perhaps it's not firm or thick enough?  I will fold it in half and try again tonight, however, I think 21ILD is going to be too soft, as I woke up with aching hips and ribs! 

I am a little bit confused because I thought 21ILD was a "medium" rating, however, the Latex International website lists it as "Soft"?  With latex going for around $250 / inch, does anyone know if it's possible to increase the ILD instead of the layers?  TIA.

Latex will compress rather than flow so it will not allow you to sink in as far and provides resistance and support to a much greater degree than memory foam. Even a layer of inexpensive regular polyfoam will provide more resistance in the same ILD than memory foam and will be closer in it's qualities to latex than memory foam. A thin layer of latex (or even polyfoam) on the top would also move you further away from the memory foam and this could provide better support and alignment than sleeping right on top of a memory foam layer. Memory foam tends to "keep on sinking" as it liquefies over time while other foams have a more fixed point where the compression stops ... and you will get to that point more quickly.

Phoenix

Okay, well this explains why the MF didn't work for me.  I am actuallly planning on returning the MF, and be done with it altogether.  I'm not sure I want to put the latex on top of the MF at this point because I don't like sinking in a whole lot, which was the case with the 2.5" of MF.  Would you suggest a firmer latex for support and less sinking in instead?
 

I think the main issue may be that you have just 1".  On top of a firm surface, that is probably not enough.  If you go from the thick plush Aerus, to the 1" Celsion, it probably is a big difference.   The sore hips is probably from bottoming out on the firmer surface below.  

For most people, I don't think 21 is too soft as a comfort layer.    Folding in half will be a better test.  Then you may want to compare that 2" (1" folded in half) to using no topper, and I think you will find it is making a difference.

You might even need 3" or more.  I can't remember what exactly you are using it on.  I use 3 fairly soft layers on top of a surface that is somewhat, but not overly, firm.

Even a thinner (say 1") layer of latex on top of the Aerus would result in less sinking in for 2 reasons. First the latex itself (even an inch) would provide its own resistance (unlike a thin layer of memory foam) and secondly it would both insulate you from the Aerus and "round out" the pressure points pressing into it which would further lessen the amount you sink in to the Aerus. These two factors may be enough to "firm up" your upper layers to a degree that you do not sleep "too far" into the mattress for your preference.

If I was going to buy a 1" layer for the very top of my mattress to go over memory foam, I would probably choose something in the range 24 ILD. This is in the soft/medium range and if you do choose to add say another 2" and dump the memory foam, it would give you a good idea of the ILD you would need for the final 2". This would probably be soft enough to help with your pressure issues but also firm enough to lessen the sinking in better than a softer layer of latex.

As always, once you have a better idea of the "why" behind the "what", use your own best judgement and instincts.

Phoenix

My understanding is their Aerus is returnabable (which is what I ended up doing). I have pretty much sworn off any memory foam thicker than 2", and most likely will stick with 1" increments if possible.

If the 2" of folded Celsion seems too firm, you might want to add 1" of memory foam over it.   That should be a firmer more supportive combination than the 2.5" Aerus.

Given that you said earlier that the Aerus was helping with your hip and shoulder pain issues, the first thing I would try is the 1" of Celsion over the Aerus before anything else. The reason for this is that adding 1" of celsion latex over the memory foam would still have enough pressure relief that you should still be fine here. It will also stop the sinking in to a degree (you have a few inches of poly under the memory foam which will also lead to sinking in more than just the memory foam itself) without sacrificing pressure relief so it may also give you better alignment to help with the neck issues and arm tingling that were the original "problem" (along with perhaps a better pillow). By sinking in less you may both improve your alignment and lessen the pressure from your head which would be lower relative to the middle of your body. In other words you need to bring your hips up without using something so firm that your pressure issues return.

I would take this in two steps. First make sure that you are fine with the pressure relief (with the 1" Celsion over the Aerus). If this is OK, then I still think that a pillow with more of a combination of softness and resilience (latex and definitely not memory foam or the material you now have which doesn't spring back) in combination with this could end up being a pretty good solution. The original neck pain you talked about would be alignment connected and could be helped with both your mattress layering (bringing up your hips) and a better pillow. The numbness of your arm would seem to me to be very connected to your pillow. A material which only compresses and doesn't provide any pressure relief on the "bottom" of the pillow could very well be causing your numbness since the pressure from your head is "passing through" your pillow onto your arm. Memory foam would end up "melting" on both sides from your head and your arm and would probably be similar. It seems to me that if you "always" sleep on your arm, a  more resilient pillow that is a little thinner than a typical side sleeping pillow may work fairly well. I wouldn't go so thin though that you had a problem with pressure going through when you were sleeping on your arm or misalignment when you weren't sleeping on your arm.

Failing this of course you could always try 2" (1" folded as was mentioned) of Celsion without the Aerus but then you would be giving up a "known" solution to your hip and shoulder pain. Also be aware that 1" folded over half your bed may be different than 2" over your whole bed depending on how much you sleep near the edge of the narrower layer. The "open end" will be less supportive and the folded end will be more so. If part of your body "strays" over the edges or sleeps closer to the edges, it could cause you to experience an issue that you unkowingly attribute to the 2" of Celsion rather than the folding so if you do this try to sleep in the middle of the folded layer.

In terms of latex itself, the difference between 21 and 24 is very small and would not make any significant difference. 28 may be enough difference but I have my doubts if 1" of 28 would solve all your "interrelated" issues. It's possible of course and may well be worth a try but I really have my doubts that anything less than 2" of latex would really help in any ILD that would also help you with your pressure issues.

Phoenix

I'm thinking of using 2" of latex, but not sure if i should use the 21 ILD on top of perhaps 1" of 27-28, or if I need to return the 21 ILD and get 2 inches of something else?