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I am new to the list and am in the process of researching non-toxic beds. I have a lot of questions. I recently learned about how ubiquitous PBDEs are, and about their increased use in mattresses since the increased flammability regulations went into effect a few years ago. I've had a TempurPedic mattress for the past ten years and have loved it, but it is now kind of soft. I realize now that I've been sleeping on a heap of unhealthy chemicals for a long time. I want to purchase a King mattress that has as few potentially dangerous chemicals as possible. I've wondered about Strobel beds, as they have the option of having a doctor's prescription for a flame-retardant-free bed. I've also looked at the Essentia website, and it looks like they have a "natural" latex memory foam bed (I've read on this list some questions about how natural it is, though). Any thoughts about Essentia or Strobel? What latex mattress companies are trustworthy in their claims not to use dangerous flame-retardant (or other) chemicals? Is Savvy Rest genuinely clean and green? I know that many companies that make "green" mattresses claim that their use of wool allows them to meet inflammability requirements, but the Strobel website insists that wool is flammable, and that these companies must be using other hidden materials to pass the blow torch test. I am willing to make an investment in a mattress that will not damage my and my family's health and one that will be comfortable and durable for a long time. I am 5'7" and 125 pounds. I sleep a lot on my side, but also some on my back and stomach. I've had sporadic minor hip, lower back, and neck pain. Thanks for any advice! |
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jasmine wrote: as for the wool issue, when i have questioned a few companies if they are really only using wool and cotton in their covers or beds to meet the standards, digging a bit deeper, they then admit to using other substances as well such as silica, teflon, boric acid, etc. but if one company has to use chemicals or fr fibers, then wouldn't it stand to reason that they all do, for a similar mattress construction? the challenge also is that some of the healthier options aren't all that comfortable. i am now experimenting with latex and trying to find a non-toxic cover, as most of the covers do have fr fibers or treatments, although i don't know for sure. this info is hard to come by. business is protected by trade secrets act, and don't have to fully disclose their materials. it does help to ask for a material data sheet from mattress companies, but i believe chemical treatments don't have to be disclosed. debraslist.com is a great site for these types of questions and has some good threads about healthy mattress alternatives. Thanks so much for your reply. I appreciate having company on this quest! My family thinks I'm a bit over-the-top with it, if not obsessive. I think it's worth the trouble, though. I think, from my research, that Deca PBDE has been outlawed, but that there are a couple others still in use, though they may be getting phased out over the next few years (octa and penta, maybe?). My understanding is that chemical companies will keep modifying the make-up of PBDEs, introducing new ones until new studies indicate potential health risks. In this case, innocent until proven guilty isn't such a hot idea, but that seems to be how the chemical industry and the EPA work. That's scary that even the greener companies that you've contacted do end up admitting to using substances in addition to wool in order to reduce flammability. Good that they admit it, but bad that they're doing it, and that you have to push them for the information. Could you please tell me which mattress makers have told you that they are using these materials? I am sorry to hear that you're having trouble finding a comfortable bed among the healthier options. That is discouraging. What are you leaning toward right now? Thanks again, and good luck! Eliza |
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Thank you so much for your reply, sandman. It's kind of a helpless feeling to know that these companies don't have to tell the consumer what is actually in their beds. Thanks for your idea about buying the latex alone and making my own mattress by adding an organic cover. That's a great idea! I wouldn't know where to get the latex, though--what company has the purest and most comfortable and most durable product? Take care, Eliza
sandman wrote: Flobeds claims that they don't use any chemicals (just organic wool) to pass the FR standards. There is no way for any of outsiders to be able to prove whether or not that is true, unless you take the mattress cover to an outside service for testing.
I am sure that other companies make the same claim. If you don't believe them or others, you could buy the latex seperately and just put an organic mattress pad over it (by Natura for example). I don't think they have to pass any tests for just the mattress pad/protector. That would not give you a nice zippered up mattress cover to hold it all nicely, but I don't think that would be a problem. Latex holds in place pretty well.
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Thanks so much for your advice, Philip. I will take a closer look at Savvy Rest and try to talk with Michael Penny. Do you have a Savvy Rest yourself? If so, what do you think of it? Eliza
Philip wrote: Eliza,
When you were at the Savvy Rest site, did you get a chance to look over their organic certificates and test results? Did you check out Michael Penny's blogs? There are like 50 franchisers around the country selling these mattresses, promoting them as the MOST green alternative available. You should check out a few of them. Or, you could simply call Savvy Rest and speak with Mr. Penny. Philip |
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Budgy, Thanks so much for replying to my post. I am glad to hear that there are many good options out there for a cleaner, healthier bed. Jasmine mentioned that when she pressed some of the companies that make mattresses that purportedly meet the flammability requirements through wool, some of them admitted to using chemicals such as teflon, boric acid, and silica. I know that companies aren't required to disclose the composition of their products due to protection of trade secrets. So I worry that their claims may not be totally honest. How trustworthy do you think the chemical flame retardant-free claims of the companies you mentioned are? Can you particularly recommend one or two that you think are on the high road and make a comfortable, durable product as well? Thanks for the clarification about the CFR 1633 regulations regarding rate of heat release. I thought it required a blow torch test, but that's something I heard second hand. Thanks, too, for the additional information about how wool burns. That is interesting and useful to me. Given what you shared about the wool fire being self-extinguishing, Strobel does seem to use that picture of wool burning a bit manipulatively. I appreciate your expertise and would value any further guidance you could offer. Thanks, Eliza
budgy wrote: There are many certified organic mattress makers that do not use chemical flame retardants....wool is used as the barrier....if someone was allergic to the wool some companies will allow you to buy the bed without wool with a doctors note.
Royal Pedic, Green Sleep, Natura, I believe Savvy Rest, Organic Pedic, and many others do not use these chemicals in their organic mattresses. Strobel seems to be marketing hardcore just as much as the S brands....of course wool burns.....but it has a higher burning point than formaldehyde which is the FR of choice in most foams and polyester fibres. The CFR 1633 regulations that have everyone in an upheaval are simply stating that to pass the fire test that there is a certain rate of heat release...not that a mattress literally be fireproofed. Also the wool they lit on fire in their test is yarn being burned from the bottom...the flame test is applied to the tops of the mattress....so long as most of the heat is being released over the wool it is actually a self extinguishing fire....you can test it yourself...try to burn that same wool yarn from the top like a candle wick...it will burn for a few seconds and then go out, hence lower heat release. |
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The fire laws are the same for organic or regular mattresses. Please correct me if i am wrong, but I think organic only means that cotton, for instance, is grown organically. Or wool is raised organically. It doesn't mean that a bed made with these materials is free of fire retardants. Organic cotton batting used in a mattress is great and is an improvement over regular cotton, as it should not contain pesticide residues. But cotton, whether organic or not, burns. So the mattress still would have to have undergone some kind of other fiber flame retardant or chemical flame retardant treatment to meet regulations. Manufacturers can be fined otherwise. It is my impression that the only way to get a mattress without fr's is with a prescription, but even then, one has to make sure that if one wants a fr free bed, that the fr's are eliminated throughout the mattress, not just on the surface. It is all quite exhausting to figure all this out........I can only encourage anyone concerned about their mattress to ask in-depth questions of the manufacturer you are considering buying from and assess their answers. I haven't been able to come to any absolute conclusions. The more i have researched, the more confusing it becomes. There are so many conficting and contradictory answers given to the same questions. Also, businesses are not required to disclose much of this information, so they don't. Wool burns, and is flame retardant, but not flame resistant. I asked someone at the agency that oversees 16 1633 fr law what amount/densification of wool would naturally meet the fr laws, but they would not give a specific answer. I had been hoping to get an absolute formula with which I could make an informed purchase. Lightning asked what I am leaning toward now and I am still trying to figure that out. I am trying to weight toxicity with comfort and am still undecided. Anything that is a mattress in this country has to meet fr code, but toppers, blankets, etc do not. I am considering piling up some toppers and sleeping on that at this point! Sad that it has come to that! :-( When I bought a bed 20 years ago, it took me 5 minutes, $350, and it was a wonderful bed for 20 years. Those were the good old days! This message was modified Jul 22, 2010 by jasmine
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If a cotton cover or the wool batting that is used is certified organic this requires testing. Some companies like Eco Institut actually test the entire mattress for chemical content and will list specific amounts of VOC's detected if any at all. One thing to keep in mind is that there is no such thing as organic foam as foaming agents always have to be added. However in a actual organic mattress by definition these covers and the fibre layers underneath cannot be treated with anything else. There was one company out of the pack that admitted to using silica content...I cannot remember their name unfortunately however most companies would be happy to provide a sample of their wool for self inspection...the presence of silica would be immediately detectable by hand. There are no Organic mattresses I know of that actually use cotton batting, just cotton covers with usually pure wool underneath. One of the companies I listed being Natura for instance has a very large range of product....only the Organic line of beds is free of chemical flame retardants...in the non-organic series they contain a small layer of cotton batting which is treated with boric acid for additional fire retardant properties. Out of the ones I mentioned I only have experience with a couple...however I would say Green Sleep is overall the top of the list for quality and purity....bit pricey though. In reality they are all good and the best thing to do is try out what you can find within close proximity to yourself. This message was modified Jul 22, 2010 by budgy
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budgy appreciate your expertise on this. in reading the text of 16 1633, there is no mention that organic mattresses are exempt from the fire laws. therefore, they must be using something to be in compliance. the only exemption under the law is for a purchaser to obtain a dr's prescription for a mattress free of fr's and toxic chemicals. if wool alone was enough to pass, that would be fantastic and i want to believe that..... This message was modified Jul 22, 2010 by jasmine
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If you want a completely organic mattress, you might also check out the OrganicPedic mattress made by OMI. I looked at these at Custom Comfort Mattress when I was shopping for my latex mattress. The salesman there described to me some of their organic practices, which include things like, employees can't wear any fragrance or personal products to the facility, can't wear shoes with leather, etc., and says the factory floor is spotless enough to eat off of. He said they were the most stringent organic mattress manufacturer in the US. I can't verify that statement, I'm just offering some information about a possible choice. The website also has some nice links you might want to check out. I tried the beds, and they were nice, but all that organic precision comes at a steep price. I got mine at Flobeds and it's not organic, simply because my latex is blended talalay. But I'm pretty sure the cover is organic cotton and wool. This message was modified Jul 22, 2010 by KimberlyH
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jasmine wrote: budgy appreciate your expertise on this. in reading the text of 16 1633, there is no mention that organic mattresses are exempt from the fire laws. therefore, they must be using something to be in compliance. the only exemption under the law is for a purchaser to obtain a dr's prescription for a mattress free of fr's and toxic chemicals. if wool alone was enough to pass, that would be fantastic and i want to believe that..... |
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budgy, that still begs the question as to why the sellers of some of the cotton wool covers for latex slabs, for example, feel the need to add silica or other substances, and some don't. all other things being equal...the latex is the same type, thickness, etc. yet some of the sellers admit that their covers have fire retardant additives and some sellers say they don't. but for what appears to be a very similar product, if one had to add fr to be 1633 compliant, why not the other? this is where i am stumped. This message was modified Jul 23, 2010 by jasmine
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