MATTRESS SURGERY: performing a "foam-ectomy" on my Englander mattress - w/ photos
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Guess what? Englander is no better than the S brands (imho)... As you may know, I bought the Englander (Malibu Firm) only for the springs. I PLANNED to give it a "foam-ectomy", getting rid of the junky cheap foam. But I wanted to see how long it might be comfortable before I did surgery on it. Well, after about 4 nights I determined that it was not good at all for my back. So I did surgery on it tonight.  I'm going to adda link to or post pictures of the surgery in the near future, right here in this thread. I did expect more from Englander... I opened it up and was shocked to see that they had NO - ZERO - ZILCH!!! - good firm foam inside!  What it had was 3 layers of 7/16" very soft, white pu foam on top of the springs. That's ALL! NO firm foam, no support, NO WONDER it was hurting my back, and no wonder if you look around the web you can find dozens of posts about how people's Englander mattresses started hurting their back within a week to a month... just like the "S" brands... On top of the 1 and 5/16 inches of soft junky pu foam, there was the whatchacallit, the top sewn into tufts, whatever they call that thing. (What kind of a mattress expert am I??! I can never remember the name of that top piece!  ) I removed that too because it's just the same cheap junky foam sewn together with a cloth and tufted...(By the way, if you buy the Malibu PLUSH instead of the Malibu FIRM, know what you get? Instead of 1 and 5/16" of junky pu foam, you get about 5" of junky pu foam! That must REALLY hurt people's backs!) This kind of mattress construction - which all the major companies are using, now, STINKS! PU foam = Peee Eww!  So, I took off ALL the foam, and then replaced it with this, from bottom up: 1" of zoned HR foam: top = medium, middle = firm, and bottom = very firm (feet area doesn't really matter, imho) 3/4" of medium-soft latex (Talalay - not certain of the ILD - maybe 24 or 28?) 1" of Venus foam So it's about the same amount of foam as it had - now 2 and 3/4 instead of just 2" - but the main difference is that now I have QUALITY foam on top of the springs, foam that gives SUPPORT as well as softness. Will post more as the experiment progresses... I'll be playing around with this combination, see how it feels. My wife has something very similar to this on top of her Sealy springs, and she likes it pretty well.- P.S. the springs seem to feel pretty good. I can't say for sure though until I've slept on them with good foam for a while This message was modified Sep 5, 2009 by jimsocal
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Re: MATTRESS SURGERY: performing a "foam-ectomy" on my Englander mattress - w/ photos
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I'm all ears and eyes....where can I see this surgery? Have a beautiful Chattam & Well that lasted for 6 1/2 years and just developed body impression that sent my hubby's back into shooting nerve problem, so he's on floor for 5 weeks now, but no problem now that he's out of the bed. We are researching $3K latex beds but nothing around to try near us so have to order blind online BUT I told hubby that I wish I could cut our C&W open and get rid of the poly foam in there that has impressed & replace it with a foambymail latex layer....he said I was crazy... Then I read this thread and I'm lol..... I need to see a photo to be sure I cut properly as I'm doing this when he's not home...heh heh.....and he won't know until too late. We didn't get a pillowtop or eurotop, so maybe I won't have to deal with too much poly quilting onto the cover, but it does have something quilted on :( I need to know where to cut - I want to save the top if I can & then hide the damage with the mattress cover after I attempt to sew it back on. King will take forever to sew 3 sides back on but I'll end up saving about $3k if it works out. So, photos please when you can! Tks |
Re: MATTRESS SURGERY: performing a "foam-ectomy" on my Englander mattress - w/ photos
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catlover wrote: I'm all ears and eyes....where can I see this surgery? Hey catlover, if you go to the top post in this thread (and any thread here) and look underneath it you will see:Have a beautiful Chattam & Well that lasted for 6 1/2 years and just developed body impression that sent my hubby's back into shooting nerve problem, so he's on floor for 5 weeks now, but no problem now that he's out of the bed. We are researching $3K latex beds but nothing around to try near us so have to order blind online BUT I told hubby that I wish I could cut our C&W open and get rid of the poly foam in there that has impressed & replace it with a foambymail latex layer....he said I was crazy... Then I read this thread and I'm lol..... I need to see a photo to be sure I cut properly as I'm doing this when he's not home...heh heh.....and he won't know until too late. We didn't get a pillowtop or eurotop, so maybe I won't have to deal with too much poly quilting onto the cover, but it does have something quilted on :( I need to know where to cut - I want to save the top if I can & then hide the damage with the mattress cover after I attempt to sew it back on. King will take forever to sew 3 sides back on but I'll end up saving about $3k if it works out. So, photos please when you can! Tks
Choose All and that will show you every post in the thread. This forum has a somewhat archaic and unique "feature" which allows you to view just the some of the threads at one time, usually the first and the last few, but not the rest. To see all you have to choose All or View as Outline which will then show you a list of all the threads within a topic. If you choose All you will see all the photos of the mattress surgery. As to "if it works out", if your springs are not shot (and they probably are not) it WILL work out! As to where to cut, see the thread about that here in this forum and also see my photos above. Good luck. Please take photos and post them when you cut, show us the CR*P inside your S brand mattress! Show us the springs, show us the foam... One thing the S brands do right is that most of the springs do last quite a long time unless you buy individual coils. Let us know how it goes. If you need any specific advice post your question here and I'll see it, or start a new topic and I'll see that. My mail box isn't the best place, as I don't always check it. |
Re: MATTRESS SURGERY: performing a "foam-ectomy" on my Englander mattress - w/ photos
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Jim-- Great post! But for some reason I never saw the pictures... or most of the posts until I decided to answer Catlover's post. Then it all came up. Very mysterious! Loved the slide show. It's really interesting to see what's inside all these mattresses and the approach different manufacturers take. If only they would take a lesson from us they'd turn out a much better product. Catlover-- if you'd like to see more pictures of another mattress surgery here's a link to the one I did on mine: http://www.whatsthebest-mattress.com/forum/mattress-surgery-101/4385-0-1.html I just checked it out to make sure the pictures were still active. |
Re: MATTRESS SURGERY: performing a "foam-ectomy" on my Englander mattress - w/ photos
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Hey, Catlover; Yep, you found this just in time! I've heard that the type of mattress you have has lots of polyfoam inside, which is likely the problem. IMO, nothing ventured, nothing gained....what do you have to lose when your hubby cannot even sleep in your bed??? There is NO resale for beds, so it is a worthless piece of crap unless you try to make it work better. I think you are on the right track. I would not worry too much about the foam in the top fabric unless nothing is changed by replacing the inside foam. Then maybe cut. Typically there isn't a lot of foam in the top piece. Speaking of cut apart beds, I helped my stepdaughter move yesterday...she is the owner of my last bed that I cut open. She's actually gone BACK to the original foam that was in the bed to start with, unbelievably(well, she does weigh more per square inch than I do, so maybe that is it), except there was a double layer of insulator added between the springs and the foam, and I replaced the center piece of bottom foam(across the hip area) with a hd polyfoam. I almost laid down on it, but I resisted. Like my new bed just fine. Kait |
Re: MATTRESS SURGERY: performing a "foam-ectomy" on my Englander mattress - w/ photos
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cloud9 wrote: Jim-- Great post! But for some reason I never saw the pictures... or most of the posts until I decided to answer Catlover's post. Then it all came up. Very mysterious! Loved the slide show. It's really interesting to see what's inside all these mattresses and the approach different manufacturers take. If only they would take a lesson from us they'd turn out a much better product. Catlover-- if you'd like to see more pictures of another mattress surgery here's a link to the one I did on mine: http://www.whatsthebest-mattress.com/forum/mattress-surgery-101/4385-0-1.html I just checked it out to make sure the pictures were still active. Thanks, and I'm glad you posted your url of your mattress surgery here. It's good to have as many as possible all in one place, I think. Very nice job on your photos and post! I don't think the mattress manufacturers are interested in producing a better product! I think they're interested in producing cheap mattresses with pillowtops that will break down quickly and cause people to have to buy new ones very soon. Seems incredibly short-sighted and hard to believe any company would think that way, yet it seems to me that is how they think. My thinking would be, "Let's make a good quality mattress and then show people WHY it's a better quality mattresss by educating them in our advertising and promotions, and explain why it's best to spend a little more on a mattress that will last." Personally I think ALL manufacturers should offer at least one model that has a zippered cover, easy to open, and offer various latex and memory foam layers to put in there. Like flobeds, only with springs. If I had the money I'd start it up, myself! Whatever they do, DIY type or not, they should NOT be putting 3-6" of crappy foam on top of the springs! |
Re: MATTRESS SURGERY: performing a "foam-ectomy" on my Englander mattress - w/ photos
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cloud9 wrote: Catlover-- if you'd like to see more pictures of another mattress surgery here's a link to the one I did on mine: http://www.whatsthebest-mattress.com/forum/mattress-surgery-101/4385-0-1.html I just checked it out to make sure the pictures were still active. Cloud9, thank you for posting that link. I thought I'd read all the "mattress surgery" threads on the forum, but I somehow missed yours. Very helpful. I don't think I'll have to do that for a good long while, because I bought a minimally padded, extra firm (3 layers of fiber mat), flippable mattress this summer, but I really like knowing that the surgery option is there, and seeing how people have done it. If the spirit moves you to take pictures of the velcro tabs you sewed on, and add those to the thread sometime, that would be even more extra-helpful. (Or tell me if they're already in there, and I'm just not seeing them.) But what you've got is fantastic and much appreciated. And I like the Monty Python references.  -Catherine |
Re: MATTRESS SURGERY: performing a "foam-ectomy" on my Englander mattress - w/ photos
| Jimsocal, I have not had time to read through all of you postings but I find your surgery very interesting. I am curious why did you decide to start with a spring core, as opposed to foam or latex? Have you experimented with the other cores as a starting point? |
Re: MATTRESS SURGERY: performing a "foam-ectomy" on my Englander mattress - w/ photos
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delilah wrote: Jimsocal, I have not had time to read through all of you postings but I find your surgery very interesting. I am curious why did you decide to start with a spring core, as opposed to foam or latex? Have you experimented with the other cores as a starting point? Yes, I tried to make it work without springs for over a year! I thought it was just my back, but I found out that pure foam just does not work for me. My wife kept telling me "We need springs!" and I said "No, no... we don't need springs." Finally when I was desparate to find a solution I tried springs, and it was like "Yeah! That's what my back needs!" Others on this forum have found the same. Do a search. I'm not downing pure foam. It obviously works for some people. But it just doesn't work for EVERYone. |
Re: MATTRESS SURGERY: performing a "foam-ectomy" on my Englander mattress - w/ photos
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Jimsocal, could you post on here your current set-up? Since this is a stickied post, it'd be great to have updates on what has worked for you for the long haul! I'm vaguely thinking you had changed a lot and decided that PU foam just didn't work for you -- but I've read so many posts recently it's hard for me to keep track! Thanks! |
Re: MATTRESS SURGERY: performing a "foam-ectomy" on my Englander mattress - w/ photos
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Have you found Jim's post on what he was using last? Maybe this will help until he returns.
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