Mattress Forum

Once again, thanks for your time, Phoenix.

I checked the Brick's invoice and they offer a 'Sleep Better Comfort Guarantee': " a one-time reselection for 90 days from the date of delivery. This offer is extended to 180 days with a matt pad." So, I'm considering one of the following:

1. Buy the Springwall plus a good topper as you suggested (The Sertapedic is the same price as the Springwall, but I'd have to ask about the amount of polyfoam in it: http://www1.thebrick.com/brickb2c/jsp/catalog/product.jsp?id=CELITEQPK&navAction=jump&navCount=5). This option seems practical and economical. I might try a Natura latex topper; I have one of their latex pillows, which I find very comfy and supportive.

2. Do some research this time (!) and try out the Tempur-Pedic RythmicNC: http://www1.thebrick.com/brickb2c/jsp/catalog/product.jsp?id=RHYTHMQPK&navAction=jump&navCount=18 

It's the only full latex mattress offered by the Brick plus it has the wool liner discussed in this thread: "Different layers of natural latex...Organic Cotton Cover quilted with a 100% New Zealand wool liner." But who knows --maybe there's some polyfoam hidden in there. Apparently, the mattress is made by EvenRest though it's labelled Tempur-Pedic. Is this another case of Spring Air/Obus Forme name licensing? I swear, shopping for a mattress is enough to make a person paranoid!

3. If my new mattress is still comfortable as I approach the 180-day trial period, then keep it as a (sadly expensive) "throw-away" item. I'm hoping I can get at least a year out of it (seeing as I'm pretty light--if that make a difference), then start fresh, exploring such options as Keetsa, Natura, SnugSleep...My fear, however, is that the mattress will start killing my back/hips/whatever-body-part right after the guarantee expires and then I'll be one of those irate online reviewers with a raging hate-on!

The best way to launder it is with a silk specific wash or even baby shampoo, basically just let it soak in cool water and then use towels to press as much water out of it as possible before final air drying.  Silk is very durable but its made out of protein like you and me, so it does dry out if you use harsh cleansers on it...I personally would avoid dry cleaning unless you know a really good dry cleaner that you trust.  Silk is more resistant to shifting and compression than really any other fibre because it is the longest stranded filament fibre around (particularly long stranded mulberry silk).  When they make these kinds of pads or duvets they essentially take a single silk cocoon and stretch it out to the full size of the mattress pad or duvet and simply layer one cocoon on top of another until the desired weight is achieved.  Once they stitch through it because silk is almost impossible to break it will not shift at all if made correctly.

There are a few "natural" dry cleaners but I'd probably wash it by hand. That's how I washed down sleeping bags and duvets as well.

I'm noticing too that the stitching seems to be really smooth. I wonder if some of the people on the forum that were very sensitive and bothered by stitching may do well with it as well.

Anyway, I think that's the "next one" I'll buy.

Phoenix

A continuous coil is firmer and less "conforming" as it is all one wire.

A verticoil is more comforming. It is a decent guage of wire (13.75).

I would confirm the stats (I doubt that the brick salesperson would know or they would pretend they know and make something up) and then think about what you wanted to do.

The "latex" Tempurpedic is made by a company called "edenrest" in London, ON which has been "taken over" by Tempur-pedic (their website is now down and their phone number goes to Tempurpedic). It is 3 x 2" layers of Talalay latex (19ILD over 24 over 36) over 4" polyfoam. While this is a much better construction (polyfoam in the support layers doesn't present as big an issue as it does in the upper layers), it is also very expensive and you could "make your own" with an identical construction for about half the cost.

I was curious since I didn't realize that Serta sold what is basically an innerspring so I called them to confirm the stats. Someone is calling me back. I also wanted to know at what level their foam encased verticoil begins as this one is not foam encased.

In any case, if you were to put a good quality topper on a good innerspring with that little foam, you would have a mattress that was comparable in comfort and support to one that sold for much much more where you were paying for polyfoam and fake "thickness". It would also last you a long time.

I'll post again when Serta calls me back. If this really does have only 1/4" thickness then it would be quite a find and I would be grateful that you started this thread as it could help many others.

Phoenix

I did get a call back from the Serta rep and as I suspected there is a little more foam in the Serta mattress but not much. The "bottom end" has 2 x 1/2" layers in the quilting and there is a thin (I suspect 1/2") of block foam over the springs. He didn't know the exact thickness. The amount of polyfoam increases as you go up the line. The lowest end has a 460 verticoil, then next one up has a 504 verticoil, and then the next one up has a 520 continuous coil with foam encasement so none of the verticoils are foam encased according to him. This isn't so bad (there is less foam to wear out) unless you sit or sleep on the edge a lot and find it uncomfortable without. You are quite light so the lack of foam encasing could actually be an advantage. So the Serta uses the continuous coil (which the lowest Springwall already has) in their "3rd up" model.

In terms of value the Springwall is probably better and it also has a flexolator instead of block foam over the springs which may be less likely to wear out (this is rows of a "roll" of paper with wire inside it put over the springs to protect the foam from going into the springs). Link here

The "advantage" of the verticoil is that it would give a little more where you may need it and you could probably use a slightly thinner topper

The "advantage" of the continuous coil is it is a little stronger and would be less likely to let you sink in as far in certain parts if that was an issue for alignment. It may need a slightly thicker topper.

Given your height and weight, which direction I would choose to go (assuming you go in this direction at all) would depend on whether you were more tall and thin or more curvy (more protuding hips) and also on how you tend to sleep (I'm assuming from your "symptoms" that you are likely a back/side sleeper but assumptions can be dangerous :))

Phoenix

PS: Another advantage of going with a latex topper is that because it will last so long, you can "re-use" it either inside (do it yourself) or on top of (manufactured) your next mattress as it could well last even longer than the springs.

I had to laugh when you said the Brick salesperson would make something up if they didn't know the answer. I dropped into a Brick mattress store today to try out the Tempur-Pedic RhythmicNC. When I asked if the mattress was natural latex throughout, the guy said: "Absolutely. 100% pure natural latex from top to bottom. So pure, you could eat it." Then he went on to say the Spring Air Obus Forme was "top of the line" and resistant to sagging unless you have a defective mattress which happens once in a blue moon. The mattress is so popular in Europe that it sells for the equivalent of $3000 due to name recognition!  

As for body type, my hips definitely curve out, it's just that there's not a lot of padding on them. I always sleep on my side (though I wish I could train myself to sleep on my back one day). I also sleep with a pillow between my knees if that counts for anything. Would love any topper suggestions you may have.

When you say "make your own" latex mattress do you literally mean DIY or is there a company that helps you to put together the materials to your specifications? 

The first one is through one of the many local and regional mattress manufacturers that exist all over the US (and Canada). They generally use much higher quality materials and have a much smaller supply chain and so can offer much greater value than most if not all of the national manufacturers. They are usually available either through "factory" direct outlets or through smaller specialty outlets. If there is one near you then you can actually go there and lay on them first which is by far the most "accurate" way to buy them. Another big advantage with these is that the advice you get is generally much higher quality and they actually care about how you will feel about their mattress in a few years. Some of these have "standard" lines that are made already and some of these will actually make a mattress to your exact specifications.

If there is not a mattress manufacturer or a retail outlet that offers their mattresses near you, then going in this direction would involve using the local stores and mattresses with known constructions as your "testing ground" and then duplicating the one you liked and having it shipped to you. This can be kind of fun because you get to play with all the high end mattresses knowing that you will end up getting one very similar or better for a much lower cost. By going in this direction you will end up with a higher quality mattress at about 50% - 75% of the cost of anything equivalent that was available through an "S" brand or similar.

The second method which is very popular on this forum and is the subject of many threads are online companies that offer say 3 x 3" layers with your choice of softness or firmness in each layer and a zippered cover of at least the quality of the covers on "commercial" mattresses. While these companies may not offer quite the flexibility of a "custom manufacturer" since they mostly come in layers that have a "standard" thickness and the choice of mattress covers may not be quite as wide ranging, they do offer a way that almost anyone can put together a mattress that is great for them and they also usually offer "layer exchanges" so if you get your construction wrong you can send in a layer that you suspect is the culprit and exchange it for one that is firmer or softer. They also offer very good value similar to a "custom manufacturer". The "best" layering scheme for different types of people and sleeping habits has been the subject of much debate in many threads on this forum.

There is a wide range of value in both custom manufacturers and do it yourself outlets so it pays to do some comparisons here as well. Either way though ... with some field testing ... you can end up with an amazing mattress at about half the cost. The latex Tempurpedic for example since it only has 6" of latex could be "duplicated" (or actually improved upon) with a cover that was at least as good for under $1500 and probably less.

There are also some larger national manufacturers ... "not "S" companies ... that are sold nationally that use higher quality materials and have much better value but not usually to the same extent as these two options.

If you go to this thread in reply #9 you will see a few "do it yourself" options with varying degrees of options and "customizability".  In that same thread in an earlier post there are some local manufacturers and retail outlets near the OP to give you a sense of what local and regional manufacturers offer.

As far as what kind of topper you would need, if you could let me know what kind of Ikea mattress you had and how you felt about it when it was new it would help a bit in making suggestions now. In general though you would probably need a 2" to 3" topper (depending on the feel you like and the innerspring underneath) and the firmness would depend a bit on some feedback from laying on a few mattresses in stores. How did you like the RhythmicNC?

Phoenix

I think my IKEA mattress was the Sultan Fonnes:

Ticking: 62% cotton, 38% polyester; Comfort material: Polyester wadding, High-resilience polyurethane foam (cold foam) 2.2 lb/cu.ft., Polyurethane foam 1.5 lb/cu.ft.

Protective fabric: Non-woven polypropylene Height : 11 3/4" Weight : 22lb 

I was fine with it at first but certainly not in heaven. I knew that it would be quite temporary. Looking back, I remember having pain in my outer thighs from time to time. As for the RhythmicNC, I really liked the feel of it. I felt fully supported but also comfortable. I tend to like that luxurious, cushy, hotel-bed feel.

My pain is back so I'm definitely not keeping the Spring Air/Obus Forme for too much longer. I like your idea of exchanging it for a Springwall then using the savings to buy a topper, which I can eventually pass along to my daughter when I decide to go the DIY route. Ah, there's hope yet! Thanks!!

If you decide to go in the "exchange" direction ... be prepared to be a little "forceful". They tend to avoid exchanging for a lower cost mattress and many times this may not even be "allowed". I would insist when you talk to them that you made a big mistake and now realize that you need the absolute firmest mattress you can buy with the least amount of polyfoam and that nothing else will do. Exaggerate as much as you need to since they will be doing the same thing.

In terms of which one, I would lay on both the Serta and on the Springwall for long enough (especially on your side) to see how they feel to you. Bear in mind that they will both likely feel firm and you would be adding a topper but it's likely that the Serta may "conform" a little better than the Springwall given the different types of springs. Of course the foam over them will somewhat mask this as well but it should be noticeable. If you were to get a 2" soft latex topper and put it over the serta ... I am guessing it will be much closer to the feel of the Rhythmic than putting it over the Springwall which will likely have less "give". You could also go with a 3" topper but then with the foam in both mattresses you are getting into a pretty thick comfort layer for your weight and proportions (the topper over the comfort layer that is already there).

In any case first steps first, if you go in this direction, just put on your "armour", strap on your sword, and be ready to do battle.

Phoenix