|
i recently went into the brick because im tired of the old one im using now. I decided to buy this one http://www1.thebrick.com/brickb2c/jsp/catalog/product.jsp?prod=WINTERFQP&navAction=jump&navCount=5 after picking it out ive been doing research and alot of people dont like spring air so i dont want to spend good money on something that wont be as good as a different brand like sealy or serta. Has anyone baught this particular set up or can tell me anything interesting about the specs? any advice would be appreciated because i can still cancel the order and pick something else out. thanks |
|
The quilting is almost certainly just the wool quilted to the ticking similar to some of the mattress encasements that are widely available in the "do it yourself" mattresses that many people are sleeping on here. I did get a call back from the Serta rep and as I suspected there is a little more foam in the Serta mattress but not much. The "bottom end" has 2 x 1/2" layers in the quilting and there is a thin (I suspect 1/2") of block foam over the springs. He didn't know the exact thickness. The amount of polyfoam increases as you go up the line. The lowest end has a 460 verticoil, then next one up has a 504 verticoil, and then the next one up has a 520 continuous coil with foam encasement so none of the verticoils are foam encased according to him. This isn't so bad (there is less foam to wear out) unless you sit or sleep on the edge a lot and find it uncomfortable without. You are quite light so the lack of foam encasing could actually be an advantage. So the Serta uses the continuous coil (which the lowest Springwall already has) in their "3rd up" model. In terms of value the Springwall is probably better and it also has a flexolator instead of block foam over the springs which may be less likely to wear out (this is rows of a "roll" of paper with wire inside it put over the springs to protect the foam from going into the springs). Link here The "advantage" of the verticoil is that it would give a little more where you may need it and you could probably use a slightly thinner topper The "advantage" of the continuous coil is it is a little stronger and would be less likely to let you sink in as far in certain parts if that was an issue for alignment. It may need a slightly thicker topper. Given your height and weight, which direction I would choose to go (assuming you go in this direction at all) would depend on whether you were more tall and thin or more curvy (more protuding hips) and also on how you tend to sleep (I'm assuming from your "symptoms" that you are likely a back/side sleeper but assumptions can be dangerous :)) Phoenix PS: Another advantage of going with a latex topper is that because it will last so long, you can "re-use" it either inside (do it yourself) or on top of (manufactured) your next mattress as it could well last even longer than the springs. This message was modified Dec 16, 2010 by Phoenix
|
|
Hi, Phoenix. You've helped me get to the heart of the matter when it comes to mattresses, for which I'm most grateful. I had to laugh when you said the Brick salesperson would make something up if they didn't know the answer. I dropped into a Brick mattress store today to try out the Tempur-Pedic RhythmicNC. When I asked if the mattress was natural latex throughout, the guy said: "Absolutely. 100% pure natural latex from top to bottom. So pure, you could eat it." Then he went on to say the Spring Air Obus Forme was "top of the line" and resistant to sagging unless you have a defective mattress which happens once in a blue moon. The mattress is so popular in Europe that it sells for the equivalent of $3000 due to name recognition! As for body type, my hips definitely curve out, it's just that there's not a lot of padding on them. I always sleep on my side (though I wish I could train myself to sleep on my back one day). I also sleep with a pillow between my knees if that counts for anything. Would love any topper suggestions you may have. When you say "make your own" latex mattress do you literally mean DIY or is there a company that helps you to put together the materials to your specifications? |
|
There are generally 2 ways that you can "make your own". The first one is through one of the many local and regional mattress manufacturers that exist all over the US (and Canada). They generally use much higher quality materials and have a much smaller supply chain and so can offer much greater value than most if not all of the national manufacturers. They are usually available either through "factory" direct outlets or through smaller specialty outlets. If there is one near you then you can actually go there and lay on them first which is by far the most "accurate" way to buy them. Another big advantage with these is that the advice you get is generally much higher quality and they actually care about how you will feel about their mattress in a few years. Some of these have "standard" lines that are made already and some of these will actually make a mattress to your exact specifications. If there is not a mattress manufacturer or a retail outlet that offers their mattresses near you, then going in this direction would involve using the local stores and mattresses with known constructions as your "testing ground" and then duplicating the one you liked and having it shipped to you. This can be kind of fun because you get to play with all the high end mattresses knowing that you will end up getting one very similar or better for a much lower cost. By going in this direction you will end up with a higher quality mattress at about 50% - 75% of the cost of anything equivalent that was available through an "S" brand or similar. The second method which is very popular on this forum and is the subject of many threads are online companies that offer say 3 x 3" layers with your choice of softness or firmness in each layer and a zippered cover of at least the quality of the covers on "commercial" mattresses. While these companies may not offer quite the flexibility of a "custom manufacturer" since they mostly come in layers that have a "standard" thickness and the choice of mattress covers may not be quite as wide ranging, they do offer a way that almost anyone can put together a mattress that is great for them and they also usually offer "layer exchanges" so if you get your construction wrong you can send in a layer that you suspect is the culprit and exchange it for one that is firmer or softer. They also offer very good value similar to a "custom manufacturer". The "best" layering scheme for different types of people and sleeping habits has been the subject of much debate in many threads on this forum. There is a wide range of value in both custom manufacturers and do it yourself outlets so it pays to do some comparisons here as well. Either way though ... with some field testing ... you can end up with an amazing mattress at about half the cost. The latex Tempurpedic for example since it only has 6" of latex could be "duplicated" (or actually improved upon) with a cover that was at least as good for under $1500 and probably less. There are also some larger national manufacturers ... "not "S" companies ... that are sold nationally that use higher quality materials and have much better value but not usually to the same extent as these two options. If you go to this thread in reply #9 you will see a few "do it yourself" options with varying degrees of options and "customizability". In that same thread in an earlier post there are some local manufacturers and retail outlets near the OP to give you a sense of what local and regional manufacturers offer. As far as what kind of topper you would need, if you could let me know what kind of Ikea mattress you had and how you felt about it when it was new it would help a bit in making suggestions now. In general though you would probably need a 2" to 3" topper (depending on the feel you like and the innerspring underneath) and the firmness would depend a bit on some feedback from laying on a few mattresses in stores. How did you like the RhythmicNC? Phoenix This message was modified Dec 16, 2010 by Phoenix
|
|
Very interesting info on the make-your-own approach, Phoenix! I think my IKEA mattress was the Sultan Fonnes: Ticking: 62% cotton, 38% polyester; Comfort material: Polyester wadding, High-resilience polyurethane foam (cold foam) 2.2 lb/cu.ft., Polyurethane foam 1.5 lb/cu.ft. Protective fabric: Non-woven polypropylene Height : 11 3/4" Weight : 22lb I was fine with it at first but certainly not in heaven. I knew that it would be quite temporary. Looking back, I remember having pain in my outer thighs from time to time. As for the RhythmicNC, I really liked the feel of it. I felt fully supported but also comfortable. I tend to like that luxurious, cushy, hotel-bed feel. My pain is back so I'm definitely not keeping the Spring Air/Obus Forme for too much longer. I like your idea of exchanging it for a Springwall then using the savings to buy a topper, which I can eventually pass along to my daughter when I decide to go the DIY route. Ah, there's hope yet! Thanks!!
|
|
Wow, I'm not surprised that you are having some pain in your hips. The 1.5 lb foam in the Ikea would be about "due" to be breaking down and there is no reserve in a 4.5" mattress to keep the pressure away. The fact that it was "sort of" comfortable for a while was probably because of your lighter weight. If you decide to go in the "exchange" direction ... be prepared to be a little "forceful". They tend to avoid exchanging for a lower cost mattress and many times this may not even be "allowed". I would insist when you talk to them that you made a big mistake and now realize that you need the absolute firmest mattress you can buy with the least amount of polyfoam and that nothing else will do. Exaggerate as much as you need to since they will be doing the same thing. In terms of which one, I would lay on both the Serta and on the Springwall for long enough (especially on your side) to see how they feel to you. Bear in mind that they will both likely feel firm and you would be adding a topper but it's likely that the Serta may "conform" a little better than the Springwall given the different types of springs. Of course the foam over them will somewhat mask this as well but it should be noticeable. If you were to get a 2" soft latex topper and put it over the serta ... I am guessing it will be much closer to the feel of the Rhythmic than putting it over the Springwall which will likely have less "give". You could also go with a 3" topper but then with the foam in both mattresses you are getting into a pretty thick comfort layer for your weight and proportions (the topper over the comfort layer that is already there). In any case first steps first, if you go in this direction, just put on your "armour", strap on your sword, and be ready to do battle. Phoenix |
|
I visited a "I Hate the Brick" site online and learned a bit about their mattress exchange policy. They'll let you make an exchange for a cheaper mattress but the difference goes toward store credit. What's more, you're charged the original retail price for the new mattress even if it's currently on sale. So there goes the excellent idea of using the money saved on a quality topper! I may just keep the damn Spring Air Obus Forme and try to get a year or so out of it, then toss (I'm doing special exercises, which have relieved the pain for now). I'll also try out the overpriced Tempur-Pedic latex bed and consider that option. Then again, maybe I'll get the Serta/Springwall, a new topper and see if there's anything I can use from the Brick. Decisions, decisions. Thanks for all your help, Phoenix!
|
|
Yup, that sounds pretty typical for the brick ... and a lot of other places. If you really fight with them they may occasionally make exceptions but it's not "easy". You have to go "up the line". If you got full credit for your mattress the Rhythmic would cost you 2600 - 895 = $1705. You could probably buy a better mattress than that for less even if you threw away the obus. They always have you coming and going which is the "plan" all along. Once you buy anything from places like this they have you by the ba***. If you can "fight" to get your best value with a serta/springwall exchange with added toppers (I wouldn't hesitate to "mention" they are the specific subject of a very active forum lol), it would probably be your best value way to go ... even though it's far from optimal. Phoenix PS: they do have some nice pillows from Natura that may be worth using some credit on. This message was modified Dec 19, 2010 by Phoenix
|
| Before reading your response, Phoenix, I was just thinking that buying the Tempur-Pedic latex mattress would amount to digging myself in deeper. If I didn't end up liking it, boy would I be mad at the Brick and, even more so, at myself for compounding the problem and wasting even more money. The Serta/Springwall plus topper is definitely the best value, as you point out. I will check out both mattresses and explore toppers. I'm also seriously thinking of cutting my losses and living with the Spring Air for now (or even trying to sell it on Craigslist for $100--if people even buy used mattresses--ick). It's not causing me pain (though worrier that I am, I wonder if I'm breathing in toxic chemicals all night!). That way, I can look forward to getting an optimal mattress, this time after careful consideration. I'm kind of obsessive about the whole sleep thing--I keep the room cool and in total darkness, ear plugs on and an air purifier humming away, etc-- so I really want to do it right this time. |
|
This is probably the actual layering of the obusforme 1 ½”OBUS Firm EcoFoam & an Antimicrobial Silk/Wool Blend. 1” ObusForme® Talalay Latex. 3 ½” OBUS Firm EcoFoam. 1” Deluxe OBUS High Density Fibre Pad. ObusForme® Zoned Individually Encased Coil System. Foam Encased Edge.(foam around the spring for edge support) 9” High Profile ObusForme® EcoBase. You are lighter in weight so 2.5" in the comfort layers could be fairly close to what you need and the firm ecofoam may work well for support underneath (although this would insulate or dominate the springs underneath it). It doesn't give the actual ILD of either the top layer or the Talalay underneath it (very typical) so how it feels would be the best indicator as to it's suitability for you. The "problem" with this mattress is not so much that it couldn't work well for you but more in it's value and durability compared to other mattresses and materials and in it's use of polyfoam in the comfort layers ... although there are other worse "culprits" here. This mattress should last you for longer than a year ... especially give your weight ... and you would likely be looking at several "good" years from it. There is really only 1.5" of poly to worry about (the 3.5" is deeper and not quite as likely to form impressions or degrade as quickly). How long this will last depends entirely on how they made it and it's "specs" ... which of course they don't reveal. There is no memory foam in this which would be my personal biggest concern with outgassing and while polyfoam is made from some pretty toxic chemicals, it is not as "bad" for outgassing as memory foam. There is still the possibility of breathing in the "dust" that comes from poly degrading (this is different from outgassing) but how much of an issue this may be could easily be disputed. You would be "somewhat" protected from this with the ticking. So in terms of "toxicity" there are probably worse things you could be exposed to in the course of life although there are certainly better as well. So given that you are somewhat "locked in" and depending on how you feel about both losing several hundred dollars in an exchange, and sleeping on "less than organic" materials for a few years, it may be worthwhile to consider keeping it. If you are OK with the mattress as it is currenly performing, then perhaps the information you are gathering here could come in very handy whenever you do replace it with something "better". I read your comment that the first night was great and then after not so good. How are things with it now? Phoenix PS: I just realized that your mattress was the plush version so I'm adding a few comments that are about the plush. I'll leave the above up as it may be helpful for someone considering the firm version. This is probably the actual layering of the plush obusforme although the convolute and the latex may be reversed. 1 ½”OBUS Firm EcoFoam & an Antimicrobial Silk/Wool Blend. 1 ½” ObusForme® Pin Convolute. 1” ObusForme® Talalay Latex. 2 ¾” OBUS Firm EcoFoam. 1” Deluxe OBUS High Density Fibre Pad. ObusForme® Zoned Individually Encased Coil System. Foam Encased Edge.(foam around the spring for edge support) This one is a little more "problematic" as there is more foam of the "softer cheaper kind" to break down. It has 4" of comfort layering of which 3" is poly which is a little thick for most people unless they are on the heavier side and have pressure issues. This certainly would feel softer but with the softer thicker poly there is more of the "soft poly" in the comfort layers to break down and the thickness of the comfort layers could present an alignment problem for some people depending on sleeping position, weight, etc. This could be aggravated more quickly as the softer foam breaks down. It would also depend on the zoning a little more with this model as the coils are not quite as "dominated" as in the firm model (although there is still a lot of foam over them) This message was modified Dec 21, 2010 by Phoenix
|
|
My first night on the Spring Air was heavenly compared to my old Ikea foam mattress. Plus I woke up in the morning without pain for the first time in months and practically cried out: "Hallelujah for I am healed!" The next night was great as well. Then, I think it was the third morning when I woke up feeling the same old pain, which now comes and goes. Over all, the mattress is pretty comfortable and the pain has improved. I currently have the new mattress on an Ikea bed frame sans box spring. The frame is not what the Brick salesman described as "standard," i.e., there's no middle support connecting the frame to the ground. This would make my Spring Air warranty null and void were I to complain about sagging one day, which I won't because I plan on tossing the thing and going green. There is a metal support thingy under the slats extending from the head of the frame to the foot. Should I get a new standard frame or else fortify the existing one to prevent sagging in the middle of the mattress? Thanks once again for your advice, Phoenix!
|