Mattress Forum

I went to Walls Mattress, which only sells the Bowles line.  I actually bought my current mattress from a different Walls location (the guy said his parents own the other shop, and he probably delivered my current mattress 9+ years ago!), and now that I look, it's actually a Bowles. I hadn't looked until just now, didn't want to be persuaded in my shopping. Too bad I don't still have the receipt or I'd make a warranty claim against the collapsed pillow top ;)

The three I liked were:

Chantilly - "11" plush top mattress, Visco lumbar support with 522 lura-flex coil unit and high density foam encasement rails." http://www.bowlesmattress.com/html/millionaire.htm

Kodiak - "11" Plush top mattress, 3/4" Visco elastic foam with dupont cool max fabric and 704 zoned pocketed coil unit.  High density foam encasement rails." http://www.bowlesmattress.com/html/elite.htm

Spectra - "12" plush top mattress, all foam construction with 1" of premium talalay latex." It had a 5 7/8" base layer of firm foam, then a 2" layer of super soft, and then 1" of Later Internationl Talatech.

None of the three are more than $900 w/ delivery and haul away, IIRC.  None were double sided - he said he doesn't feel the double sided mattresses are necessarily better. I tried a couple that were and I didn't like them.  They use foundations, not box springs. He offered a 30 day comfort guarantee if I buy a mattress cover from him and use it.

I think I liked the feel of the Spectra the best, the foam one with latex on top.  The Kodiak and Chantilly pretty much had the same soft top, just different coils - the pocket coil felt a little better.  I couldn't much tell the difference between them.

There was the Sapphire http://www.bowlesmattress.com/html/backmaster.htm which felt too firm, but I think it had less foam. It may be fine with my own latex topper? Its coil unit was different style than the Chantilly and Kodiak.

It looks like I have to go up to a higher end ($$$) line to get latex over coils or all latex.  We didn't look at those.

I wouldn't pay $900 for any of the choices you mentioned. I think the least of them had close to 3" of polyfoam in it (most of it supersoft), and any of the better layers (visco and/or latex) were very thin and surrounded by "lesser stuff". You are a big guy and while your weight is probably evenly spread out, I can't help but think that you would be heading for problems with any of them.

I would tend to use your experience at Bowles as something that you are gaining experience in what you like rather than approaching it as trying to decide what to buy from them. I would certainly try the higher end mattresses to get a sense of the better mattress constructions that fit you. This may be the most important thing you do there. Armed with this, you will be in a much better position to decide on a direction. I would also pay particular attention to your spinal alignment as it seems you are being drawn to some pretty soft configurations.

An inch or so of some of the newer HR super soft poly in the quilting may not be so bad as they are pretty resilient and durable (if they are the best foams) but if you add that to more layers of soft or even firmer but lower quality poly foam in the comfort layers, you may be heading for some "issues". If you do decide to go with a mattress with more than 1" of poly foam in it, I personally would make darn sure I knew the details of exactly what they were (density, ild, type etc) ... and I do mean specifically rather than "salesman mattress talk" generally.

Phoenix

And are rated quite highly, it is worth including them as a reference point to help you compare what you are looking at to other similar (or better) mattresses. They both have specs and prices on their site so it will be easier to compare apples to apples.

http://www.originalmattress.com/product-and-pricing

http://www.furniturerow.com/DenverMattressCo/

In my opinion they both have models with great value. Unfortunately the "original mattress company" only ships in the East. That and the fact that they had already been mentioned a fair bit before was the only reason I didn't include them on my previous list.

Phoenix

I've stayed away from all the pillowtops and eurotops, am I really looking at things that are that soft?  There was a mattress there with 3" of latex on the top, a step up from the Spectra, and it felt too soft to me.

I was a little off on the specs of the Spectra - http://www.bowlesmattress.com/html/latex-foam.html and it was the Mystique next to it.  I now understand that neither are very desirable.. at least I think I do.

What I "need" to be looking for is something with just springs and latex?  It shouldn't mention any other kind of foam, right? I guess I've gotten a little lost again.

The mention of OMF and Denver came while I was typing.. Which at OMF is "acceptable"? They have a store that is "only" 2.5 hours away..

If I was going to go in the polyfoam direction, I would get very specific about what they were (you can see some examples in the last 2 links I posted) and be reasonably certain they would do what I wanted them to do in terms of support, comfort, and durability. I would not buy something where I had any doubts. It is much easier to know what you are buying when you are looking at materials that have proven themselves and where their qualities are easier to predict. Springs, latex foam, memory foam, and traditional stuffing materials (horsehair, cotton, wool, feathers etc) fall into this category. HR foam to a lesser degree falls into this category as well but it is much more difficult to know what kind of foam is in your mattress as they will mostly not give you the specific manufacturer so you can do some research into it's quality and characteristics. Most of the poly foams are re-branded with "latest and greatest most wonderful absolute heaven" names to prevent consumers from doing exactly this. Most of them as well have not proven themselves (at least in a positive way) in the real world over time.

Phoenix

Even their top of the line 2 sided latex supreme in a queen is only $1339.

You would either have the choice of buying something there (assuming they really do have something that "fits" you) or you could take careful notes of the "best" matress they have for your purposes and then duplicate it from another supplier. You may save a bit of money but you would be buying something that had a little more uncertainty and risk attached to it.

I would call them first and have a good long conversation with them and narrow your choices down to a few before you go ... but I would certainly go.

Phoenix

I wish companies were more honest and forthcoming with details.  Just list out a spec sheet of what I'm buying.  I'm a computer guy and wouldn't buy a computer without knowing the megahertz and gigabytes.  Pretty annoying.  At each of these places it's felt like I was pulling teeth when trying to get info on the mattresses.

Maybe I just need to change directions and focus on the latex route?  Pick a foundation, and start ordering pieces of latex?  I liked the feeling of the latex / foam bed, so maybe I need to direct my energy that way?  I don't feel like I'm grasping what exactly makes a good innerspring mattress.  That Spectra mattress would probably make me happy, so I guess the issue of longevity is the one that would need addressed. 

The premade beds don't seem to be in my budget, and exceeding it by 40%, like the one from OMF, is not too appealing.

I did try a 4lb memory foam at Walls and now know that I don't like that.

Part of what has really pushed me along is that I woke up a couple weeks ago barely able to move.  My back was just SOO stiff that putting something in the trashcan hurt.  I'm not a frequent sufferer of back pain, so that was a shocker to me. I could "feel" my lower back on one of the mattresses I was laying on today so I knew that it wasn't the one.

Phoenix, I saw you mention LatexMattressShop in another thread.  That's a new one for me so far and their product looks reasonably priced to me... Hmmmm....

And now that I look, Furniture Row has a shop in Lafayette, which isn't all that far away for a Sunday trip.

The 1.8 density foam on the bottom should present no problem as this would not be getting repeatedly compressed in the same way as a layer on top. It would play a similar role to a 1.8 lb polyfoam as a support layer under memory foam except with the latex above it it would not play as important a role as it would if there was only memory foam above it.

The one that I posted from OMF was only to point out their most expensive mattress. Their 9" version in a queen is $979 ... plus shipping of course.

I didn't talk to OMF about any of their other beds besides the all latex but I agree their specs are too general in many cases. It may be worth a phone call to see if they have (or would build) latex on top of springs.

I also had a hard time in my narrowing down process getting away from the one at latexmattressshop. It just looked so darn comfortable and it "felt" like it could be really nice. The fact that it was dunlop was made up for (for me) by the fact that it was zoned and that with the quilting and 2" layer and the choice of comfort level (and the price) it could have been great. It was one of the last few I eliminated.

I think that the biggest problem with polyfoam and the reason I had such a firm rule about it was that it was just too likely that it's qualities (comfort and ability to support) would deteriorate way too quickly. If I'm going to spend $1000 or more, I want to have a reasonable expectation that what is perfect at the beginning would still be perfect 1 or 2 or 3 years down the road. While some types of poly can be long lasting, I just didn't trust the material as much as a known quantity like latex. This is compounded by the incredible lack of accurate information out there and I couldn't agree more with your sentiments here. The bed we sleep in is so much more important than many people believe and in many cases it takes a long time to "wake up" to the fact that some of our problems are related to the mattress we are sleeping on (fatigue, pain, numbness etc).

It's ironic in a way that often those who are less "involved" in the makeup of their bed seem to be more accepting of it's flaws where those of us who are looking to reach closer to 100% become much more critical and aware of differences that we would otherwise probably just accept.

In any case, everything you do ... and every new frustration ... gets you closer to understanding and then finding what is perfect for you. None of it is wasted once you find your perfect fit.

Phoenix

He showed me three Simmons Natural Care mattresses.  I asked if they were entirely made of latex and he told me they were.    There was one of the little construction cutouts by the $1800 mattress, and at the bottom was a 2" lay of foam -- clearly NOT latex all the way through!  There was one for $1500 and one for $1800 and I asked him the differences between them a couple times.  All he could tell me was that the foam densities were different.  I asked him for numbers, said I was a computer guy and wanted to see, and he said "Hang on a second" and walked off.  That was encouraging.  Came back a minute later empty handed and said someone else had a question for him.  That left me dumbfounded.  Of course, they all come with free 32" HDTV's -- I can give that away for Xmas since I have enough TV's he said. 

Now that I get home, the $1500 mattress just has an inch of latex at the top according to Simmons website - the "Model One".  The "Model Two" says it has Dunlop latex, but that construction cutaway in the store was labeled Talalay.  He mentioned the 10yr warranty.. Simmons says its a 20yr. Basically, everything he told me was wrong, almost to the point of lieing to me. He wanted to know what he could do to get me to buy today, just like a used car salesman.  Oh, he handed me his card on the way out and said he was the store manager!

I am growing to like the latex feel though. And I liked the firmer sides of the mattresses best. Don't care for memory foam.